When do we give up and just walk away?

[Velvetshady]

I need some non-emotional opinions.

Unless they hit water in the next 50ft or so, we've spent ~$12k for a useless hole in the ground.
To make another attempt to drill a well, we'd have pay ~$4-5k to get the available area of our lot cleared. Then another $15-30k to drill and hook up to the house (if they find water there).

If they don't find water there, we've sunk up to $47k and are left with no savings, no water source, and a house we can't sell.

We are still underwater on the house if it sold at current estimated value (and it wont--we already had a list of ~20k must fixes before being able to put on the market).
The house is in DH's name only.
DH is currently looking for a new job--a foreclosure would cause him issues in his field/industry.
We have four cats, making most apartment complexes not an option for renting, probably have to rent a private home/condo.
I don't make enough alone to qualify for rent on more than 1 bedroom apartment in NoVa--need DH's income to qualify for most places we've seen available.
We still have a huge amount of consumer debt to pay off so money is already pretty tight, budget wise (also makes both our credit scores not stellar, not terrible but not great). If DH has a foreclosure on his record, might even make better financial sense for him to go ahead and declare bankruptcy as well.

So, do we gamble another ~$35k on the hope that the next round of drilling will bring water?

Or walk away now when we have some savings to use for rent/moving and gamble with DH being stuck in a job he absolutely hates and a foreclosure on his record?

[Susie]

Is there any way for professionals to make an educated guess as to the likelihood of reaching water with another drilling attempt? That's such a big (and important) variable.

This sounds super stressful for you guys

[explorer2001]

Can you use ground scanning radar or ultra sound or something to identify where there is water and how deep? Like the stuff they use to find oil and gas deposits underground or they stuff they use on archeological dig?

I'm sorry you are dealing with this.

[LoveTrains]

I have no suggestions but just wanted to say that I am very sorry you are dealing with this.

[Pom]

This sounds horrible. I am so sorry. Is this a common issue in this area? Can you at least ask this question of other local well drillers and their advice?

[Deleted]

I thought your post title was talking about your marriage - lol. I know nothing about wells.

[raangoli]

I am so sorry that you are dealing with this. I really don't know what I would do, either. Like the PPs asked, is this a common problem in the area? Can you talk to neighbors or others who might have dealt with this?

[hamster]

I must have missed the backstory. What happens if your H gets a job and then starts foreclosure? Would the ramifications be the same?

[Velvetshady]

Apparently, according the the drillers and the county health inspector, dowsing is the best they can do--and that's a crap shoot. Don't know if that is because we're sitting on a mountain of very hard slate that other, more scientific detectors can't read through or what.

DH did just find out that the house directly down the slope from us has a 250ft well that is producing 25 gallons per minute (so it's right on top of the spring). Best we can do it try to drill as close to that as we can on our property line. All the rest of the wells around us are ~400-500ft according the the health dept records. The records also claim our well was measured at 6 gallons per minute when first drilled, DH doubts the accuracy of that and thinks it was yet another "house is being built by a Congressman, look the other way" incident. (The county inspector pointed out a bunch of stuff that was "wrong" when we finished the basement--DH pointed out that they were things that existed when he purchased the house and this inspector was the same one that inspected it when construction was completed.)

In hindsight, we should have just walked away in 2008 when we hit 50% underwater (due to neighbors walking away--for financial reasons not dry wells). We've already spent ~$20k on well issues before the well was declared "dry" (new, better pumps, replacing burnt-out pumps, a huge storage tank, etc.).
It would have been the better financial/business decision then, we just didn't have the real need to do it.

Fuck this sucks.

[hamster]

So your house currently has no water?

And I'd have gone apeshit on that inspector. He obviously didn't do his job the first time around.

[Velvetshady]

Aug 7, 2014 14:50:23 GMT -5 hamster said:

I must have missed the backstory. What happens if your H gets a job and then starts foreclosure? Would the ramifications be the same?

If he already had started the new job, probably would be ok. But he only started actively looking a month or so ago (should have started long before that), so not likely he'll get one before we need to make a decision on what to do.

[Velvetshady]

Aug 7, 2014 15:12:36 GMT -5 hamster said:

So your house currently has no water?

And I'd have gone apeshit on that inspector. He obviously didn't do his job the first time around.

We have some water flow--like most days we can each take a shower (if taken at different times of the day) and manage standard toilet flushing/hand washing (we already have dual flush toilets and don't flush every time). Or we can not shower for a day and run a load of laundry. The last time I tried to take a shower within 2 hours of DH taking one, I was left with conditioner in my hair and having to pour store bought water over my head to rinse it out.

[barefootcontessa]

I am so sorry. This sounds like an awful situation. Is the house essentially uninhabitable unless you hit water?

[Velvetshady]

Aug 7, 2014 14:45:57 GMT -5 @heyitsme said:

I thought your post title was talking about your marriage - lol. I know nothing about wells.

That could have been my post title when I discovered how much consumer debt DH had when we got married If I stuck with him through that, I guess I'm sticking around.

[Velvetshady]

Aug 7, 2014 15:41:45 GMT -5 @rennido said:

Personal opinion, and probably not popular, but in your situation, save your cash and get out. Foreclosure sucks, but it's only in your H's name... can you qualify for a loan (if need be) by yourself?

ETA: Is it only consumer debt that would also be in the bankruptcy? Or did you have any medical or anything of that nature at all?

I'm so sorry.

Only consumer debt--DH was in major consumer debt when we married. We've made progress on it, but this house and its problems have basically stopped most progress on it for the last year. We'd have to rent for a couple of years to get the debt down (I transferred some to my accounts to save on interest costs), but I could qualify for a loan--our plan before all this was to move in ~2 years with me buying a townhouse in my name and then save to build our retirement home, eventually renting out the townhouse when that was built. But I make ~2/3s of what DH makes, so his income certainly helps. Of course, the money we're having to use for drilling is eating into the downpayment savings we had.

[miniroller]

Aug 7, 2014 14:29:41 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

I have no suggestions but just wanted to say that I am very sorry you are dealing with this.

Ditto.
That sucks, OP

[Velvetshady]

Looks like we're going to clear the lot and drill again. And hope they hit water.

DH did some research--most mortgage companies will not approve a mortgage for buyers with our current water flow. Our county/state doesn't have anything to assist/reduce losses if the house has to be abandoned due to no water. We are in a state where the mortgage company can go after us for what DH owes (and given our income, they would go after us). And DH makes too much money for bankruptcy to be an option (basically he could restructure debt but that is it, he'd still owe the full value of the mortgage and other debt, and he'd be stuck in his current job until it dropped from his record).

FIL just received his inheritance from his mom passing away last year, so he's loaning us the money to clear the lot and cover what we've already had drilled. No payments due until spring. That leaves us with enough savings to move if we have to if the second drilling doesn't work and a bit of time to get caught up some on the debt before we have to start repayments to him. DH hated asking his dad for money, but it's the first time he's ever asked (while his brother has done it consistently over the years) and it's a time we know FIL has the money to loan. Might actually help FIL not spend it all immediately:) (They all have a spending problem--DH is the only one that has realized it and has been working on fixing it).

And get this--we now have to pay the drilling company to refill the empty hole they dug because as of today, hit 950ft, no water. FML

Feeling a bit less stressed/freaked/depressed/overwhelmed/trapped now that we have a plan, just not wanting to think of what happens if the next try fails. No idea how long it will take to arrange for the lot clearing, but I'll be asking for crossed fingers when the next round of drilling starts.

Thanks for letting me whine here and thanks for commiserating on the suckiness of the whole situation with me:)

[bryantpark]

Oh my. I'm sorry you are going through this.

[rubytue]

Oh wow what a horrible situation. 950 ft! I really, really, really hope you can find the spring your neighbors are on *fingers crossed*

[daisypaloma]

Holy sh*t 950ft is crazy compared to your neighbors'.  I'm sorry you're dealing with this

[teatimefor2]

I am so so sorry. That is a horrible situation and I hope you find water and gold. Crossing all fingers and toes and since I'm pregnant, that's 40 digits in total.

[iheartbanjos]

No advice, just hugs.

[asoctoberfalls]

I'm crossing my fingers that you will hit water next time you drill. How stressful!

[dr.girlfriend]

Aug 7, 2014 15:01:39 GMT -5 Velvetshady said:

Apparently, according the the drillers and the county health inspector, dowsing is the best they can do--and that's a crap shoot. Don't know if that is because we're sitting on a mountain of very hard slate that other, more scientific detectors can't read through or what.

DH did just find out that the house directly down the slope from us has a 250ft well that is producing 25 gallons per minute (so it's right on top of the spring). Best we can do it try to drill as close to that as we can on our property line. All the rest of the wells around us are ~400-500ft according the the health dept records. The records also claim our well was measured at 6 gallons per minute when first drilled, DH doubts the accuracy of that and thinks it was yet another "house is being built by a Congressman, look the other way" incident. (The county inspector pointed out a bunch of stuff that was "wrong" when we finished the basement--DH pointed out that they were things that existed when he purchased the house and this inspector was the same one that inspected it when construction was completed.)

In hindsight, we should have just walked away in 2008 when we hit 50% underwater (due to neighbors walking away--for financial reasons not dry wells). We've already spent ~$20k on well issues before the well was declared "dry" (new, better pumps, replacing burnt-out pumps, a huge storage tank, etc.).
It would have been the better financial/business decision then, we just didn't have the real need to do it.

Fuck this sucks.

Pop culture references are the extent of my help on this matter. 

I'm guessing there's no guaranteed way to achieve this?  Hooking up to an existing sewer line or something?  Did the previous well run dry?  I have no idea about wells.  Sorry. There's no workaround with like a giant water tank or anything (ETA:  I see you've tried this one :-(  )? Can you pay the neighbors mucho dinero to tap into their well?

I'm sorry, that really does suck.

[Velvetshady]

Aug 8, 2014 8:01:07 GMT -5 dr.girlfriend said:

Aug 7, 2014 15:01:39 GMT -5 Velvetshady said:

Apparently, according the the drillers and the county health inspector, dowsing is the best they can do--and that's a crap shoot. Don't know if that is because we're sitting on a mountain of very hard slate that other, more scientific detectors can't read through or what.

DH did just find out that the house directly down the slope from us has a 250ft well that is producing 25 gallons per minute (so it's right on top of the spring). 

Pop culture references are the extent of my help on this matter. 

I'm guessing there's no guaranteed way to achieve this?  Hooking up to an existing sewer line or something?  Did the previous well run dry?  I have no idea about wells.  Sorry. There's no workaround with like a giant water tank or anything (ETA:  I see you've tried this one   )? Can you pay the neighbors mucho dinero to tap into their well?

I'm sorry, that really does suck.

Ha! I did actually ask DH if we could call Burns Slant-Drilling Co when he told me about the neighbors flow below us And asked if we could just drill deep enough for a pump, ~2 extra feet, then tap into the neighbors well (which is right on their side of the property line, the county told us we just have to be on our side of the property line). Not the neighbors with the 25gpm flow, but the ones next to us.

There are multiple household wells further down the road, but they have to designed for that when set up, it's not something they can retrofit. We're in a rural area (and on top of a small mountain) so no govt provided water/sewer available--we're lucky we have power, phone service, and only got DSL a couple years ago.

DH is going to look into the possibility of putting in a cistern and having water delivered but we aren't sure if the county allows that, if there is anyone around that would do the work, if it is even a viable option at our altitude (we're at ~2100ft above sea level, freezing is a major issue), if a tank/cistern would be large enough to get through the winter if a truck couldn't deliver (we had snow/ice on the ground from Nov to April this year--and the county doesn't even plow our gravel road, our neighbors do), or how much all of that might cost. This seems to be the only non-walking away option left if the second drilling doesn't work.

[dr.girlfriend]

Aug 8, 2014 8:30:27 GMT -5 Velvetshady said:

Aug 8, 2014 8:01:07 GMT -5 dr.girlfriend said:

Pop culture references are the extent of my help on this matter. 

I'm guessing there's no guaranteed way to achieve this?  Hooking up to an existing sewer line or something?  Did the previous well run dry?  I have no idea about wells.  Sorry. There's no workaround with like a giant water tank or anything (ETA:  I see you've tried this one   )? Can you pay the neighbors mucho dinero to tap into their well?

I'm sorry, that really does suck.

Ha! I did actually ask DH if we could call Burns Slant-Drilling Co when he told me about the neighbors flow below us And asked if we could just drill deep enough for a pump, ~2 extra feet, then tap into the neighbors well (which is right on their side of the property line, the county told us we just have to be on our side of the property line). Not the neighbors with the 25gpm flow, but the ones next to us.

There are multiple household wells further down the road, but they have to designed for that when set up, it's not something they can retrofit. We're in a rural area (and on top of a small mountain) so no govt provided water/sewer available--we're lucky we have power, phone service, and only got DSL a couple years ago.

DH is going to look into the possibility of putting in a cistern and having water delivered but we aren't sure if the county allows that, if there is anyone around that would do the work, if it is even a viable option at our altitude (we're at ~2100ft above sea level, freezing is a major issue), if a tank/cistern would be large enough to get through the winter if a truck couldn't deliver (we had snow/ice on the ground from Nov to April this year--and the county doesn't even plow our gravel road, our neighbors do), or how much all of that might cost. This seems to be the only non-walking away option left if the second drilling doesn't work.

I know nothing about this stuff so I'm totally talking out of my ass, but since you have a big hole in the ground can you get geothermal heat from that, and maybe use that to keep a cistern above freezing? Or even just to make use of your giant hole in the ground?

[whitepicketfence]

We have a well but I know very little about it since DH deals with it.

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I can't even imagine how stressful this would be.

[Velvetshady]

Aug 8, 2014 8:41:24 GMT -5 dr.girlfriend said:

I know nothing about this stuff so I'm totally talking out of my ass, but since you have a big hole in the ground can you get geothermal heat from that, and maybe use that to keep a cistern above freezing? Or even just to make use of your giant hole in the ground?

It's a giant hole in that it's 900ft deep but it's only the circumference of the drill bit and pipe (so ~1 1/2 ft in diameter? maybe). So it would have to be a new hole, but yeah I would assume it would have to involve using geothermal heat, just not sure how deep it would need to be to get that up here.


:)Move to the mountains, it's quiet out there. Nature all around. Beautiful views. Lots of wildlife to observe.

[womet]

Oh gosh, I am so sorry that you are dealing with this. Fingers and toes crossed that this next drilling hits the motherload of water.

[Mimi]

<hugs> Hope you hit water. crossing fingers.