Prescription painkiller deaths fall in medical MJ states

[pixy0stix]

news.yahoo.com/prescription-painkiller-deaths-fall-medical-marijuana-states-202837041.html

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) – Researchers aren’t sure why, but in the 23 U.S. states where medical marijuana has been legalized, deaths from opioid overdoses have decreased by almost 25 percent, according to a new analysis.



“Most of the discussion on medical marijuana has been about its effect on individuals in terms of reducing pain or other symptoms,” said lead author Dr. Marcus Bachhuber in an email to Reuters Health. “The unique contribution of our study is the finding that medical marijuana laws and policies may have a broader impact on public health.”



California, Oregon and Washington first legalized medical marijuana before 1999, with 10 more following suit between then and 2010, the time period of the analysis. Another 10 states and Washington, D.C. adopted similar laws since 2010.



For the study, Bachhuber, of the Philadelphia Veterans Affairs Medical Center and the University of Pennsylvania, and his colleagues used state-level death certificate data for all 50 states between 1999 and 2010.



In states with a medical marijuana law, overdose deaths from opioids like morphine, oxycodone and heroin decreased by an average of 20 percent after one year, 25 percent by two years and up to 33 percent by years five and six compared to what would have been expected, according to results in JAMA Internal Medicine.



Meanwhile, opioid overdose deaths across the country increased dramatically, from 4,030 in 1999 to 16,651 in 2010, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Three of every four of those deaths involved prescription pain medications.



Of those who die from prescription opioid overdoses, 60 percent have a legitimate prescription from a single doctor, the CDC also reports.



Medical marijuana, where legal, is most often approved for treating pain conditions, making it an option in addition to or instead of prescription painkillers, Bachhuber and his coauthors wrote.



In Colorado, where recreational growth, possession and consumption of pot has been legal since 2012 and a buzzing industry for the first half of 2014, use among teens seems not to have increased (see Reuters story of July 29, 2014 here: reut.rs/1o040NI).



Medical marijuana laws seem to be linked with higher rates of marijuana use among adults, Bachhuber said, but results are mixed for teens.



But the full scope of risks, and benefits, of medical marijuana is still unknown, he said.



“I think medical providers struggle in figuring out what conditions medical marijuana could be used for, who would benefit from it, how effective it is and who might have side effects; some doctors would even say there is no scientifically proven, valid, medical use of marijuana,” Bachhuber said. “More studies about the risks and benefits of medical marijuana are needed to help guide us in clinical practice.”



Marie J. Hayes of the University of Maine in Orno co-wrote an accompanying commentary in the journal.



“Generally healthcare providers feel very strongly that medical marijuana may not be the way to go,” she told Reuters Health. “There is the risk of smoke, the worry about whether that is carcinogenic but people so far haven’t been able to prove that.”



There may be a risk that legal medical marijuana will make the drug more accessible for kids and smoking may impair driving or carry other risks, she said.



“But we’re already developing Oxycontin and Vicodin and teens are getting their hands on it,” she said.



If legalizing medical marijuana does help tackle the problem of painkiller deaths, that will be very significant, she said.



“Because opioid mortality is such a tremendously significant health crisis now, we have to do something and figure out what’s going on,” Hayes said.



The efforts states currently make to combat these deaths, like prescription monitoring programs, have been relatively ineffectual, she said.



“Everything we’re doing is having no effect, except for in the states that have implemented medical marijuana laws,” Hayes said.



People who overdose on opioids likely became addicted to it and are also battling other psychological problems, she said. Marijuana, which is not itself without risks, is arguably less addictive and almost impossible to overdose on compared to opioids, Hayes said.



Adults consuming marijuana don’t show up in the emergency room with an overdose, she said. “But,” she added, “we don’t put it in Rite Aid because we’re confused by it as a society.”

[ijack]

This seems so odd to me because if I was addicted to opioids, MJ would not seem like a suitable replacement.

[pixy0stix]

Aug 25, 2014 17:01:55 GMT -5 ijack said:

This seems so odd to me because if I was addicted to opioids, MJ would not seem like a suitable replacement.

Maybe it's catching people before they become opioid dependent? So instead of going on the painkillers, they're toking instead.

[ijack]

Aug 25, 2014 17:03:35 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Aug 25, 2014 17:01:55 GMT -5 ijack said:

This seems so odd to me because if I was addicted to opioids, MJ would not seem like a suitable replacement.

Maybe it's catching people before they become opioid dependent? So instead of going on the painkillers, they're toking instead.

That's a good point. IMO percocet is waaaaaaaay better than pot, but what do I know?

[cinnamoncox]

Aug 25, 2014 17:01:55 GMT -5 ijack said:

This seems so odd to me because if I was addicted to opioids, MJ would not seem like a suitable replacement.

It seems to me that it's because in states where it's legal, the doctor can prescribe marijuana instead of an opiate for pain management, so the patient won't get addicted to opiates because they won't start on them in the first place.

But it's very possible I've misread it.

[aurora]

Aug 25, 2014 16:44:55 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

...


Adults consuming marijuana don’t show up in the emergency room with an overdose, she said. “But,” she added, “we don’t put it in Rite Aid because we’re confused by it as a society.”

This is such odd wording.

I also wonder if it's possible that people trying to kick an opiate habit might be more willing to try MJ as a substitute rather than quit cold turkey.  Maybe it would make the emotional transition easier?

I don't even pretend to be a medical doctor so this could be a ridiculous hypothesis.

[Alyssa]

- My dad is almost pain free thanks to CBD drops that he puts under his tongue.  He has had FIVE back fushions over the years....chronic back pain....usually loaded up on tons of pain meds.


- My husband has dropped his Norco intake by half thanks to a cannabis strain called Harlequin.  My husband was rear-ended 9 years ago and deals with chronic neck pain and migraines.

[epphd]

Aug 25, 2014 17:05:49 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

Aug 25, 2014 17:01:55 GMT -5 ijack said:

This seems so odd to me because if I was addicted to opioids, MJ would not seem like a suitable replacement.

It seems to me that it's because in states where it's legal, the doctor can prescribe marijuana instead of an opiate for pain management, so the patient won't get addicted to opiates because they won't start on them in the first place.

But it's very possible I've misread it.

My guess is almost the opposite: I took my mom to two neurosurgeons, an orthopod and a neurologist for a chronic pain issue that had her more or less housebound. I asked ALL of them about MMJ. We live in WA where recreational MJ is now legal!

You would have thought I asked them to give her straight up heroin. They prescribed the shit out of percocet and vicodin, but none of them would even talk about MMJ. "Oh I'm sure SOME of my patients use it but I couldn't speak to it." Yeah, whatever.

So you have doctors who are more comfortable giving lengthy Rxs of narcotics, but won't even TALK about MMJ because "drugs".

Now, if people have easy access to MMJ they tend to go for that first, or - if they've run out their script of percocet they may be able to get MMJ instead of a black market batch of pills. I think also for people with chronic pain, they are so sick of being accused of drug seeking that MMJ provides a fairly destigmatized means of actually getting some relief.

[cinnamoncox]

Aug 25, 2014 19:12:00 GMT -5 epphd said:

Aug 25, 2014 17:05:49 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

It seems to me that it's because in states where it's legal, the doctor can prescribe marijuana instead of an opiate for pain management, so the patient won't get addicted to opiates because they won't start on them in the first place.

But it's very possible I've misread it.

My guess is almost the opposite: I took my mom to two neurosurgeons, an orthopod and a neurologist for a chronic pain issue that had her more or less housebound. I asked ALL of them about MMJ. We live in WA where recreational MJ is now legal!

You would have thought I asked them to give her straight up heroin. They prescribed the shit out of percocet and vicodin, but none of them would even talk about MMJ. "Oh I'm sure SOME of my patients use it but I couldn't speak to it." Yeah, whatever.

So you have doctors who are more comfortable giving lengthy Rxs of narcotics, but won't even TALK about MMJ because "drugs".

Now, if people have easy access to MMJ they tend to go for that first, or - if they've run out their script of percocet they may be able to get MMJ instead of a black market batch of pills. I think also for people with chronic pain, they are so sick of being accused of drug seeking that MMJ provides a fairly destigmatized means of actually getting some relief.

I meant that in theory doctors would have the option. I don't know how it goes in practice. I am in MA where it's been decriminalized and is now legal medicinally. I have found it difficult to get an appointment with a doctor for it.
There's still the stigma here and it's legal to prescribe it. My primary care doctor has chosen not to get involved in it, as he puts it. He does prescribe an opiate and has for many years and will for as long as I'm a patient.
I can't wait for an actual script. I know full well it works. Living proof . It's not easy to obtain.
I imagine this will loosen up as doctors become more accustomed to it and are more comfortable with it.
Getting pain meds around here is very difficult. There's a horrible heroin problem here in ma and Oxys and stuff, so pain meds are being heavily regulated.
I wish I didn't need to have it sometimes. But until I can legally obtain my preferred medicine, it's what it is.

eta:
Wait, if it's legal why do you need to get a prescription? Can't you just go buy them some weed?

[Nonny]

Aug 25, 2014 19:41:06 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

eta:
Wait, if it's legal why do you need to get a prescription? Can't you just go buy them some weed?

It's actually really hard to buy weed in WA even though it's legal. We voted it in at the same time as Colorado, but it's only been legally available for sale for about 6 or 8 weeks now, and they still don't have a good growing/distribution system in place so supply is low. According to the news most pot shops sold out immediately the first day it was available, and several only just recently opened (like in the last week or so) because they didn't appreciate being price gouged by the few wholesalers and wouldn't stock their stores. There are also legal battles waging in some cities that have issued injunctions (is that the right word?) against pot stores opening in their city limits.

We also aren't allowed to grow our own like in CO. I've heard rumors they are trying to get a ballot measure this year that would change that, but I haven't been able to find any info on if it's true or not.

[Deleted]

It could simply be that pain meds and other addictive drug prescriptions are being monitored more closely and there are now databases for doctors to track patients who abuse the meds, see multiple docs and such. So people can't get opiates and smoke MJ instead.

[Deleted]

www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/medical-marijuana-as-the-new-herbalism-part-1-the-politics-of-weed-versus-science/

www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/medical-marijuana-as-the-new-herbalism-part-2-cannabis-does-not-cure-cancer/

Interesting articles, part 1 and 2

[cinnamoncox]

Aug 26, 2014 3:35:59 GMT -5 @spenjamins said:

It could simply be that pain meds and other addictive drug prescriptions are being monitored more closely and there are now databases for doctors to track patients who abuse the meds, see multiple docs and such. So people can't get opiates and smoke MJ instead.

Yes, I have to and have for years, sign an "opiate contract" that I'll not doctor shop and if anything else besides what my doctor and I agree will be in my system upon testing is in my system, no prescription until a clean catch.

I was so naive when he told me about it I was like what? You're my doctor why would I go to another one? He just looked at me like come on, and then jt dawned on me oh yeah tons of people likely "doctor shop".

[cinnamoncox]

Aug 25, 2014 22:02:00 GMT -5 Nonny said:

Aug 25, 2014 19:41:06 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

eta:
Wait, if it's legal why do you need to get a prescription? Can't you just go buy them some weed?

It's actually really hard to buy weed in WA even though it's legal. We voted it in at the same time as Colorado, but it's only been legally available for sale for about 6 or 8 weeks now, and they still don't have a good growing/distribution system in place so supply is low. According to the news most pot shops sold out immediately the first day it was available, and several only just recently opened (like in the last week or so) because they didn't appreciate being price gouged by the few wholesalers and wouldn't stock their stores. There are also legal battles waging in some cities that have issued injunctions (is that the right word?) against pot stores opening in their city limits.

We also aren't allowed to grow our own like in CO. I've heard rumors they are trying to get a ballot measure this year that would change that, but I haven't been able to find any info on if it's true or not.

It's weird here in MA. It's decriminalized up to an ounce, so if anyone here is pulled over with less than an ounce, it's either a ticket or they just take it I forget which one. No legal action though that I'm aware of.
Now with a med license. One can have a months supply which they consider to be some outrageous number like five ounces or more I want to say.

But it is still tricky to obtain license. Also if a licensee lives more than a certain distance from a dispensary, we can grow it ourselves ( get a starter plant from dispensary).

The dispensaries around here that I know of have gotten their start and product from Rhode Island.

[Velar Fricative]

Aug 26, 2014 3:35:59 GMT -5 @spenjamins said:

It could simply be that pain meds and other addictive drug prescriptions are being monitored more closely and there are now databases for doctors to track patients who abuse the meds, see multiple docs and such. So people can't get opiates and smoke MJ instead.

I'll search for sources but pain meds may finally be less available but that's why heroin use is back on the rise. That is evident where I live, which was reeling from pain med abuse and heroin is now the drug du jour when the pain med well dried up. And yet, the OP states that pain med AND heroin use rates overall have decreased where MMJ is legal. I'm not ready to say it's because of the MMJ but it's interesting.

ETA: www.drugfree.org/join-together/heroin-use-rises-as-prescription-painkillers-become-harder-to-abuse/

[AAM2012]

Aug 25, 2014 19:12:00 GMT -5 epphd said:

Aug 25, 2014 17:05:49 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

It seems to me that it's because in states where it's legal, the doctor can prescribe marijuana instead of an opiate for pain management, so the patient won't get addicted to opiates because they won't start on them in the first place.

But it's very possible I've misread it.

My guess is almost the opposite: I took my mom to two neurosurgeons, an orthopod and a neurologist for a chronic pain issue that had her more or less housebound. I asked ALL of them about MMJ. We live in WA where recreational MJ is now legal!

You would have thought I asked them to give her straight up heroin. They prescribed the shit out of percocet and vicodin, but none of them would even talk about MMJ. "Oh I'm sure SOME of my patients use it but I couldn't speak to it." Yeah, whatever.

So you have doctors who are more comfortable giving lengthy Rxs of narcotics, but won't even TALK about MMJ because "drugs".

Now, if people have easy access to MMJ they tend to go for that first, or - if they've run out their script of percocet they may be able to get MMJ instead of a black market batch of pills. I think also for people with chronic pain, they are so sick of being accused of drug seeking that MMJ provides a fairly destigmatized means of actually getting some relief.

Well they don't get kick backs from Big Pharm if they prescribe MMJ. That's my guess anyways.

[cinnamoncox]

Velar Fricative

Yes, that's happening here in MA too.
Especially on Cape Cod, it's getting very bad. I lost a family member 1.5 years ago to heroin there.
Started with Percocet and that got harder to obtain one thing led to another.
Multi millionaire to on the dole then dead, leaving behind four kids and four grand kids, in about two-three years time.
Sad. I know drugs are bad and I'm not blaming anyone for it, it's just a wicked epidemic in MA but especially on Cape Cod.

[MrsAxilla]

Aug 25, 2014 22:02:00 GMT -5 Nonny said:

Aug 25, 2014 19:41:06 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

eta:
Wait, if it's legal why do you need to get a prescription? Can't you just go buy them some weed?

It's actually really hard to buy weed in WA even though it's legal. We voted it in at the same time as Colorado, but it's only been legally available for sale for about 6 or 8 weeks now, and they still don't have a good growing/distribution system in place so supply is low. According to the news most pot shops sold out immediately the first day it was available, and several only just recently opened (like in the last week or so) because they didn't appreciate being price gouged by the few wholesalers and wouldn't stock their stores. There are also legal battles waging in some cities that have issued injunctions (is that the right word?) against pot stores opening in their city limits.

We also aren't allowed to grow our own like in CO. I've heard rumors they are trying to get a ballot measure this year that would change that, but I haven't been able to find any info on if it's true or not.

Colorado went all in when it legalized MJ.  It's as easy to buy as alcohol.  They're talking about raising the amount dispensaries can produce to keep up with demand.  

[Deleted]

Aug 26, 2014 6:42:43 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

Aug 25, 2014 19:12:00 GMT -5 epphd said:

My guess is almost the opposite: I took my mom to two neurosurgeons, an orthopod and a neurologist for a chronic pain issue that had her more or less housebound. I asked ALL of them about MMJ. We live in WA where recreational MJ is now legal!

You would have thought I asked them to give her straight up heroin. They prescribed the shit out of percocet and vicodin, but none of them would even talk about MMJ. "Oh I'm sure SOME of my patients use it but I couldn't speak to it." Yeah, whatever.

So you have doctors who are more comfortable giving lengthy Rxs of narcotics, but won't even TALK about MMJ because "drugs".

Now, if people have easy access to MMJ they tend to go for that first, or - if they've run out their script of percocet they may be able to get MMJ instead of a black market batch of pills. I think also for people with chronic pain, they are so sick of being accused of drug seeking that MMJ provides a fairly destigmatized means of actually getting some relief.

Well they don't get kick backs from Big Pharm if they prescribe MMJ. That's my guess anyways.

Docs don't get kickbacks with a lot of generic meds as they aren't promoted very much by Big Pharma.  What kind of kickbacks are you talking about? 

In California, prescribing marijuana takes a special license and it's a sleazy business.

Make marijuana legal. Don't make doctors bless it with a bunch of bullshit.

[epphd]

Aug 26, 2014 3:35:59 GMT -5 @spenjamins said:

It could simply be that pain meds and other addictive drug prescriptions are being monitored more closely and there are now databases for doctors to track patients who abuse the meds, see multiple docs and such. So people can't get opiates and smoke MJ instead.

Which is great. I think pain control is such an incredibly complex physical, emotional and psychological problem that if we can sub out an objectively highly addictive means of pain control for something less (or non-) addictive, then hooray. I wouldn't necessarily expect a doctor to endorse MMJ over opiates for say, surgical pain. But for chronic pain where the patient's perception of pain is in part objective but sometimes entirely subjective - why push the big stuff? I think that's what made me so frustrated with my mom. She had objective pain with no discernible source. She had some previous injury but then just developed chronic pain. Narcotics really didn't touch it because she was so emotionally devastated from the rapid ramp up of the pain and the subsequent limitation of her activities. It was a feed forward cycle, compounded by the fact she has major depression and bipolar disorder (for which she is well medicated). The upshot is that she felt like her docs didn't really give a shit and kept pushing drugs that didn't work, are addictive, and to boot have unpleasant side effects. They simply wouldn't even *bother* to weigh in on whether MMJ might be helpful for her. She wasn't asking for an Rx - just their input. They basically made her (by way of my asking and their disdain) feel ashamed for even asking, which is justfuckingstupid when she walks out with an Rx for 60 percocet.

There's a longish and sort of funny story for how her pain has subsided but suffice it to say if she ever ends up in the same boat, I'll march my happy ass out to a dispensary for her. Hell, I still have neuropathy from chemo and I'm sure I could get an Rx.

[mominatrix]

Aug 26, 2014 11:22:02 GMT -5 epphd said:

Aug 26, 2014 3:35:59 GMT -5 @spenjamins said:

It could simply be that pain meds and other addictive drug prescriptions are being monitored more closely and there are now databases for doctors to track patients who abuse the meds, see multiple docs and such. So people can't get opiates and smoke MJ instead.

Which is great. I think pain control is such an incredibly complex physical, emotional and psychological problem that if we can sub out an objectively highly addictive means of pain control for something less (or non-) addictive, then hooray. I wouldn't necessarily expect a doctor to endorse MMJ over opiates for say, surgical pain. But for chronic pain where the patient's perception of pain is in part objective but sometimes entirely subjective - why push the big stuff? I think that's what made me so frustrated with my mom. She had objective pain with no discernible source. She had some previous injury but then just developed chronic pain. Narcotics really didn't touch it because she was so emotionally devastated from the rapid ramp up of the pain and the subsequent limitation of her activities. It was a feed forward cycle, compounded by the fact she has major depression and bipolar disorder (for which she is well medicated). The upshot is that she felt like her docs didn't really give a shit and kept pushing drugs that didn't work, are addictive, and to boot have unpleasant side effects. They simply wouldn't even *bother* to weigh in on whether MMJ might be helpful for her. She wasn't asking for an Rx - just their input. They basically made her (by way of my asking and their disdain) feel ashamed for even asking, which is justfuckingstupid when she walks out with an Rx for 60 percocet.

There's a longish and sort of funny story for how her pain has subsided but suffice it to say if she ever ends up in the same boat, I'll march my happy ass out to a dispensary for her. Hell, I still have neuropathy from chemo and I'm sure I could get an Rx.

ugh. that sucks.

MMJ can and should be used in circumstances where it really can help, and the kind of pain you're describing is exactly that.

H's BFF has epilepsy, and by using MMJ he's objectively seizure free; he's also (completely or almost, I don't remember his last convo) med-free, which is pretty amazing given that he was on a TON of meds before going on MMJ. They didn't control the seizures and caused a bunch of side effects he didn't like. 



I think the dismissal of MMJ as something that can actually help people is weird and more than a little dangerous.

[epphd]

Aug 26, 2014 11:52:27 GMT -5 mominatrix said:

Aug 26, 2014 11:22:02 GMT -5 epphd said:

Which is great. I think pain control is such an incredibly complex physical, emotional and psychological problem that if we can sub out an objectively highly addictive means of pain control for something less (or non-) addictive, then hooray. I wouldn't necessarily expect a doctor to endorse MMJ over opiates for say, surgical pain. But for chronic pain where the patient's perception of pain is in part objective but sometimes entirely subjective - why push the big stuff? I think that's what made me so frustrated with my mom. She had objective pain with no discernible source. She had some previous injury but then just developed chronic pain. Narcotics really didn't touch it because she was so emotionally devastated from the rapid ramp up of the pain and the subsequent limitation of her activities. It was a feed forward cycle, compounded by the fact she has major depression and bipolar disorder (for which she is well medicated). The upshot is that she felt like her docs didn't really give a shit and kept pushing drugs that didn't work, are addictive, and to boot have unpleasant side effects. They simply wouldn't even *bother* to weigh in on whether MMJ might be helpful for her. She wasn't asking for an Rx - just their input. They basically made her (by way of my asking and their disdain) feel ashamed for even asking, which is justfuckingstupid when she walks out with an Rx for 60 percocet.

There's a longish and sort of funny story for how her pain has subsided but suffice it to say if she ever ends up in the same boat, I'll march my happy ass out to a dispensary for her. Hell, I still have neuropathy from chemo and I'm sure I could get an Rx.

ugh. that sucks.

MMJ can and should be used in circumstances where it really can help, and the kind of pain you're describing is exactly that.

H's BFF has epilepsy, and by using MMJ he's objectively seizure free; he's also (completely or almost, I don't remember his last convo) med-free, which is pretty amazing given that he was on a TON of meds before going on MMJ. They didn't control the seizures and caused a bunch of side effects he didn't like. 



I think the dismissal of MMJ as something that can actually help people is weird and more than a little dangerous.

Exactly - it's a bit irrelevant to me whether there is biochemical evidence of pain and understanding of how a drug offers pain relief in this case. So if it's a placebo effect, whoopdido. It's something. Pain is one of the most (molecularly) poorly understood conditions of the human experience. Hell, we don't know how TYLENOL works. Literally - we don't know. We do know it is one of the most dangerous over the counter substances out there but sure, let's demonize pot. DUMB. (and I say this as a non pot smoker).

[lyssbobiss, Command, B613]

Aug 26, 2014 6:16:30 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Aug 26, 2014 3:35:59 GMT -5 @spenjamins said:

It could simply be that pain meds and other addictive drug prescriptions are being monitored more closely and there are now databases for doctors to track patients who abuse the meds, see multiple docs and such. So people can't get opiates and smoke MJ instead.

I'll search for sources but pain meds may finally be less available but that's why heroin use is back on the rise. That is evident where I live, which was reeling from pain med abuse and heroin is now the drug du jour when the pain med well dried up. And yet, the OP states that pain med AND heroin use rates overall have decreased where MMJ is legal. I'm not ready to say it's because of the MMJ but it's interesting.

ETA: www.drugfree.org/join-together/heroin-use-rises-as-prescription-painkillers-become-harder-to-abuse/

This is the situation for my city as well.  Pain meds are very closely monitored with opiate contracts and pill counts and heroin use is at an all-time high.  

[peachdragon]

Aug 25, 2014 19:12:00 GMT -5 epphd said:

Aug 25, 2014 17:05:49 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

It seems to me that it's because in states where it's legal, the doctor can prescribe marijuana instead of an opiate for pain management, so the patient won't get addicted to opiates because they won't start on them in the first place.

But it's very possible I've misread it.

My guess is almost the opposite: I took my mom to two neurosurgeons, an orthopod and a neurologist for a chronic pain issue that had her more or less housebound. I asked ALL of them about MMJ. We live in WA where recreational MJ is now legal!

You would have thought I asked them to give her straight up heroin. They prescribed the shit out of percocet and vicodin, but none of them would even talk about MMJ. "Oh I'm sure SOME of my patients use it but I couldn't speak to it." Yeah, whatever.

So you have doctors who are more comfortable giving lengthy Rxs of narcotics, but won't even TALK about MMJ because "drugs".

Now, if people have easy access to MMJ they tend to go for that first, or - if they've run out their script of percocet they may be able to get MMJ instead of a black market batch of pills. I think also for people with chronic pain, they are so sick of being accused of drug seeking that MMJ provides a fairly destigmatized means of actually getting some relief.

Maybe their MJ reps aren't as hot as their pharma reps.

[PinkSquirrel]

Aug 25, 2014 19:41:06 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

Aug 25, 2014 19:12:00 GMT -5 epphd said:

My guess is almost the opposite: I took my mom to two neurosurgeons, an orthopod and a neurologist for a chronic pain issue that had her more or less housebound. I asked ALL of them about MMJ. We live in WA where recreational MJ is now legal!

You would have thought I asked them to give her straight up heroin. They prescribed the shit out of percocet and vicodin, but none of them would even talk about MMJ. "Oh I'm sure SOME of my patients use it but I couldn't speak to it." Yeah, whatever.

So you have doctors who are more comfortable giving lengthy Rxs of narcotics, but won't even TALK about MMJ because "drugs".

Now, if people have easy access to MMJ they tend to go for that first, or - if they've run out their script of percocet they may be able to get MMJ instead of a black market batch of pills. I think also for people with chronic pain, they are so sick of being accused of drug seeking that MMJ provides a fairly destigmatized means of actually getting some relief.

I meant that in theory doctors would have the option. I don't know how it goes in practice. I am in MA where it's been decriminalized and is now legal medicinally. I have found it difficult to get an appointment with a doctor for it.
There's still the stigma here and it's legal to prescribe it. My primary care doctor has chosen not to get involved in it, as he puts it. He does prescribe an opiate and has for many years and will for as long as I'm a patient.
I can't wait for an actual script. I know full well it works. Living proof . It's not easy to obtain.
I imagine this will loosen up as doctors become more accustomed to it and are more comfortable with it.
Getting pain meds around here is very difficult. There's a horrible heroin problem here in ma and Oxys and stuff, so pain meds are being heavily regulated.
I wish I didn't need to have it sometimes. But until I can legally obtain my preferred medicine, it's what it is.

eta:
Wait, if it's legal why do you need to get a prescription? Can't you just go buy them some weed?

MA has done a good job of dragging their feet on getting everything up and fully running in a manner that allows for access.   I currently have two friends that are buying weed from dealers and using it 100% for legitimate medical issues because purchasing it through legitimate means still isn't a realistic option.   It's ridiculous

[StrawberryBlondie]

MN just legalized medical mj. We apparently have one if the strictest laws in the country. I'm curious how it will play out, access-wise.

[cinnamoncox]

Aug 26, 2014 15:56:53 GMT -5 PinkSquirrel said:

Aug 25, 2014 19:41:06 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

I meant that in theory doctors would have the option. I don't know how it goes in practice. I am in MA where it's been decriminalized and is now legal medicinally. I have found it difficult to get an appointment with a doctor for it.
There's still the stigma here and it's legal to prescribe it. My primary care doctor has chosen not to get involved in it, as he puts it. He does prescribe an opiate and has for many years and will for as long as I'm a patient.
I can't wait for an actual script. I know full well it works. Living proof . It's not easy to obtain.
I imagine this will loosen up as doctors become more accustomed to it and are more comfortable with it.
Getting pain meds around here is very difficult. There's a horrible heroin problem here in ma and Oxys and stuff, so pain meds are being heavily regulated.
I wish I didn't need to have it sometimes. But until I can legally obtain my preferred medicine, it's what it is.

eta:
Wait, if it's legal why do you need to get a prescription? Can't you just go buy them some weed?

MA has done a good job of dragging their feet on getting everything up and fully running in a manner that allows for access.   I currently have two friends that are buying weed from dealers and using it 100% for legitimate medical issues because purchasing it through legitimate means still isn't a realistic option.   It's ridiculous

Yes. I agree 100% with what you're saying. We could be friends