Can we talk about European travel again?

[hamster]

I'm planning on going to Spain and Portugal at the end of march/early April. I would fly into Madrid and out of Lisbon.

Lets pretend I have unlimited time. Where would you go? What would you do?

Also, in order to fly out of Lisbon I would have to catch a 5 am flight, and have a 4 hour layover in Amsterdam. Would you fly to Amsterdam the afternoon prior and spend one night there? The flight wouldn't leave until 10 or 11 the next day, so this would avoid being at the airport at the ass crack of dawn.

[v]

Have you been to any of these places before?

If not, I'd spend 3 days in Madrid (more if that's where your friend is), 2-3 days in Granada, then some amount of time in Barcelona and Lisbon (I haven't been to them so I don't know how long).

I would definitely spend time in Amsterdam if I could. Any way to make it two nights? It is a neat city.

[y4m]

Our favorite parts of Spain were Rioja and San Sebastian - if you are a foodie or wine snob at all they are fantastic. I loved them much more than either Madrid or Barcelona.

[hamster]

Aug 27, 2014 11:53:08 GMT -5 v said:

Have you been to any of these places before?

If not, I'd spend 3 days in Madrid (more if that's where your friend is), 2-3 days in Granada, then some amount of time in Barcelona and Lisbon (I haven't been to them so I don't know how long).

I would definitely spend time in Amsterdam if I could. Any way to make it two nights? It is a neat city.

I haven't. I could do more time in Amsterdamn if I gave up Portugal. Which would be fine, although that would mean less time with my friend as she would likely not be there for that part.

[hamster]

Actually, I could easily do one extra night in Amsterdamn, assuming you tell my I can arrive home T noon PST on Sunday and be ok for work Monday

[y4m]

Going west is easy--I wouldn't think you'll be too jet lagged on Monday.

[v]

Aug 27, 2014 12:07:48 GMT -5 hamster said:

Actually, I could easily do one extra night in Amsterdamn, assuming you tell my I can arrive home T noon PST on Sunday and be ok for work Monday

Easy peasy. When I come back from Europe I usually land at night and have no trouble at work the next day. Also, melatonin is your friend.

[Mushe]

Aug 27, 2014 12:07:48 GMT -5 hamster said:

Actually, I could easily do one extra night in Amsterdamn, assuming you tell my I can arrive home T noon PST on Sunday and be ok for work Monday

I would (and have) done this. It's so worth it to get an extra night in Amsterdam.

[hamster]

Well ok then!

So now, what do I do in Spain, Portugal and Amsterdam?

[Mushe]

I really loved Madrid, but also thought Barcelona was great. With flying in to Madrid and out of Lisbon, I'm not sure you'd want to go to Barcelona.

How many days? Do you think you'll make it back to Spain at some point to see Barcelona, if you don't hit it this time?

I would probably do Madrid, train to Granada/side trip to Gibraltar, then Lisbon.

[lolo]

I love Spain. If I had seriously unlimited time I would:

- Start in Madrid. Full disclosure: I don't love Madrid. But I would take maybe 2 nights there, visit the museums you're keen on, go out in Sol or La Latina, enjoy Plaza Mayor, Palacio Real. Maybe do a day trip to Aranjeuz

- Take the train to Sevilla. Spend 3 days in Sevilla, enjoying Alcazar, Parque de Maria Luisa, Plaza Espanol, shopping, etc. Day trip to Granada to see the Alhambra and wander the old streets. Maybe a day trip to Cordoba.

- Consider spending 2 days on Costa del Sol in one of the less touristy towns, definitely not in Malaga.

- Return to Madrid. Do a road trip north from Madrid, hitting Vale de los Caidos (and lamenting the shit that Franco did), visiting a winery and drinking some rioja, and then drive along the north coast of Basque Country, visiting the cute seaside town of Bermeo, Guernica (an important historic site and also beautiful with some interesting things to see for the better part of a day), San Sebastian, Pamplona and working my way to Barcelona. (Or add some time and go up to the French Basque Country or to Galicia. Spend a day hiking on el Camino de Santiago. Go to Asturias and drink their cider.)

- Spend 4 days in Barcelona. I am biased--I love Barca and pretty much could move there tomorrow and never run out of things to do. I love all the amazing art, architecture, the wine, the museums, etc. Consider day trips to Figures if you're a Dali fan, to Girona to enjoy a beautiful historic town, to Tarragona to see the Roman Ruins and celebrate the Catalan human castle, to Montserrat to the monastery.

And then...hooray you! You've gotten a good taste of Spain now.

[lolo]

ETA: OH YEAH and go spend a few days in Mallorca and Menorca. Namely in Soller.

[hamster]

Aug 27, 2014 15:15:13 GMT -5 Mushe said:

I really loved Madrid, but also thought Barcelona was great. With flying in to Madrid and out of Lisbon, I'm not sure you'd want to go to Barcelona.

How many days? Do you think you'll make it back to Spain at some point to see Barcelona, if you don't hit it this time?

I would probably do Madrid, train to Granada/side trip to Gibraltar, then Lisbon.

It's possible we would make it to Barcelona in the future, but it's hard to say. I do know we want to go back to Europe at some point, and it would be focused on Italy and central/eastern Europe. What that means for Barcelona, I don't know.

[v]

Aug 27, 2014 16:06:52 GMT -5 hamster said:

Aug 27, 2014 15:15:13 GMT -5 Mushe said:

I really loved Madrid, but also thought Barcelona was great. With flying in to Madrid and out of Lisbon, I'm not sure you'd want to go to Barcelona.

How many days? Do you think you'll make it back to Spain at some point to see Barcelona, if you don't hit it this time?

I would probably do Madrid, train to Granada/side trip to Gibraltar, then Lisbon.

It's possible we would make it to Barcelona in the future, but it's hard to say. I do know we want to go back to Europe at some point, and it would be focused on Italy and central/eastern Europe. What that means for Barcelona, I don't know.

What does that mean for the rest of Spain?  Where is your friend in Spain?  

[hamster]

v my friend is in Madrid.

I would say I'm unlikely to do much traveling in Spain the future (just cause I'd wanna go somewhere new) but stopping into a city like Barcelona on the way somewhere else could certainly be on the table.

[lolo]

IMO Barcelona is totally the city to visit in Spain. I find Madrid to be totally underwhelming every time.

But since your friend is in Madrid...

What are you looking for in this vacation? City breaks? Art? Beautiful scenery? Laid back? Beach? All that stuff exists in Spain but in different places.

[hamster]

So, H his cool with Amsterdam (although was under the impression it was sleazy/sketchy; he's wrong, right?).

He also expressed interest in possibily going for two whole weeks, which is several days longer than we introduced. This sort of gives us more flexibility. We can add in more Spain, or more Portugal, or nix Portugal altogether and do something farther. Thoughts? My only histancey to just doing Spain and Amsterdam is that my friend will have hypothetically seen most of Spain by then and may not be an exciting use of her PTO.

lolo I don't have a set agenda, other than to see my friend and visit a couple of countries. We aren't museum people per se. I think we would do better in small towns, minus a language barrier. We like going to new places, sight seeing, eating/drinking, hiking etc. We are looking at end of march, early may, so probably not much point in doing the beach thing.

[MrsE]

I was in Barcelona and the surrounding areas just a few weeks ago. It was beautiful and I loved it. Have fun and happy planning!

We did a "layover" in Amsterdam in the way back but it was a 22 hour layover so we stayed the night and had plenty if time to quickly explore the city. Happy to answer any questions you may have about either.

[hamster]

Aug 27, 2014 22:41:19 GMT -5 MrsE said:

I was in Barcelona and the surrounding areas just a few weeks ago. It was beautiful and I loved it. Have fun and happy planning!

We did a "layover" in Amsterdam in the way back but it was a 22 hour layover so we stayed the night and had plenty if time to quickly explore the city. Happy to answer any questions you may have about either.

I'd love some 24 tourism suggestions for Amsterdam! Where did you stay? Was it convenient to the airport?

[pantsparty]

I loved Amsterdam. We stayed at the Hotel Grand Amrath, which is close to the train station. I thought the location was perfect since it was semi-close to the Red Light District but not close enough so it was noisy. Don't listen to anyone who says Amsterdam is sleazy! Yes, you see the women in the windows at night and that area can get rowdy, but it is in every other way utterly charming. If you go, you must visit the Anne Frank Haus (arrive early), eat at De Bakkerswinkle for the most amazing scones and try to go on a canal cruise. PM me if you'd like other restaurant recs

[ESF]

How much do you like to drink? How much do you like port?

I love myself a drinking vacation, and if you do too, you will want to hit Porto in northern-ish Portugal. It's wino heaven. I say this as someone who lives in Northern California. I know wino heaven when I see it, and Porto is it.

[hamster]

Aug 27, 2014 23:48:13 GMT -5 ESF said:

How much do you like to drink? How much do you like port?

I love myself a drinking vacation, and if you do too, you will want to hit Porto in northern-ish Portugal. It's wino heaven. I say this as someone who lives in Northern California. I know wino heaven when I see it, and Porto is it.

Lol @ how much do I like to drink. I don't believe I've ever had Port though.

[v]

Aug 27, 2014 21:19:06 GMT -5 hamster said:

So, H his cool with Amsterdam (although was under the impression it was sleazy/sketchy; he's wrong, right?).

He also expressed interest in possibily going for two whole weeks, which is several days longer than we introduced. This sort of gives us more flexibility. We can add in more Spain, or more Portugal, or nix Portugal altogether and do something farther. Thoughts? My only histancey to just doing Spain and Amsterdam is that my friend will have hypothetically seen most of Spain by then and may not be an exciting use of her PTO.

There are parts that are sleazy/sketchy, and parts that are absolutely lovely.  We stayed at the Hotel Pulitzer and I loved the location (in the Jordaan neighborhood) -- in a more residential and super charming area away from the stag party scene.  If you're concerned about sleaze, I'd stay in that area rather than closer to Dam Square.

In Spain, I highly recommend two days in Granada.  I don't think it needs more time than that, but it's a really cool city.  The Alhambra is unbelievable, and I loved our walk up through the Albayzin neighborhood.  And there are a few more things worth seeing there too, so I think it deserves more than a day trip.