Sounds like the specifics were never discussed (even before nephew applied to college). You seem to have put an awful lot of conditions on this money. Have you and your H discussed the amount you would be giving toward nephew's education? I say who cares where he attends school; $10,000 (or whatever amount) goes just as far at ABC Community College as it does at Harvard.
I'll add to the chorus of figuring a set amount that you want to give him and call it good. I don't disagree with telling him that this amount would be 0 based on his two year gap, if that is how you want to go.
Sounds like the specifics were never discussed (even before nephew applied to college). You seem to have put an awful lot of conditions on this money. Have you and your H discussed the amount you would be giving toward nephew's education? I say who cares where he attends school; $10,000 (or whatever amount) goes just as far at ABC Community College as it does at Harvard.
While I agree he is presumptuous in his actions, I can't help but wonder why this wasn't nipped in the bud earlier. If you did have an intention of paying/helping to pay, why wasn't this shut down when he didn't enroll last year? The conversation last summer should have been, "of you are taking a second gap year? Ok, then know that we are unable to help you since our agreement was no more than one gap year".
I agree with this and wonder why you didn't talk to him when you knew he was applying, got accepted, etc. At the end of the day, he still sounds like an entitled kid and he and his parents absolutely failed by not talking to you sooner, but I think you'd feel less obligated and angry now had you been more clear up to this point. Either way, you can't change what's already happened so I think it's best to sit down with your H and figure out what you're willing to do and what contingencies need to be in place, then talk to nephew (the sooner, the better) and lay it out for him. Tough cookies for him if your contribution doesn't cover everything. He was wrong not to talk to you before making plans. You and your H are very generous
I would find out the cost of tuition at a state university. I would offer to pay that, for four years, provided he is in school two semesters or three trimesters, for four years. That is what a reasonable interpretation of "pay for college" is. I feel like that should be around $5-$10k/year. I don't think offering to pay for college means "pay for any school you want" or "pay for living expenses" or "pay for 8 years of extended education."
OTOH, I don't think the two year delay relieves you of any obligation unless it was specifically communicated to him that you wouldn't pay if he took that time off. I also don't think its fair to make the offer contingent on financial aid, unless you communicated that to him. You said it was a real offer, and I would try to live with that, within reason. If it were me, I would be willing to work 6 months longer to pay for my nieces education (but I am assuming your husband is talking about retiring at 40 or another relatively young age; if he is in his 60's, ignore this).
ETA: It sounds like he kept you updated on the process but didn't ask for money. Perhaps he was waiting for you to bring it up. It is hard and awkward to go asking for money; I can see why a young adult would wait for his aunt and uncle to bring up payment, as long as he was keeping them updated about applying.
Post by Balki.Bartokomous on Aug 30, 2014 12:51:21 GMT -5
I'd be pissed, but I don't think this is beyond being able to be worked out. I wouldn't revoke my offer because he took a second year off but I would have a serious talk with him about responsibility & expectations on both sides because clearly he's not going to learn that at home.
The kid's been in classes for two days. It's not too late to sit him down & outline your expectations: you expect to spend $x for 8 consecutive semesters that results in a college degree. You expect to have access to his grades to verify that he is maintaining a GPA of 3.0 or higher. I'd probably also throw in some expectation that he gets a summer internship related to his degree (aka not bumming around on a beach or a mountain) for a summer break or two.
He's in a super expensive college? Too bad. He either needs to find scholarships to make up the difference or transfer to a cheaper college next semester. If you can't be there to help him get the $ in person, then do it virtually & make some phone calls. Like @cse1960 said, kids take no for an answer pretty easily. Hell, adults do, too, so I think you should expect to help him a bit with that if you want to see results.
The great news is that this kid is showing initiative in spite of his upbringing. I think this is a great thing you're doing & it sounds like he can really succeed if he has support.
ETA: I'd also put this all in writing & make him sign it. It's more to show him you're serious & will hold him accountable than anything else.
Post by Captain Serious on Aug 30, 2014 20:48:30 GMT -5
I just got back and saw the new responses. I don't really want to drag this out too long, but I did want to clarify one thing. He did not keep us updated on applying, getting in, etc. the only reason I knew about all this was because his mother posted it on Facebook. The last time I talked to him was over the 4th of July holiday, and he said nothing then, or the time before that, at Easter. We saw him fairly regularly throughout the winter, and he never discussed college then at all, except that he still had plans to go. He hasn't ever contacted us about any of this himself or brought any of it up except to ask for the money this week.
Post by Captain Serious on Aug 30, 2014 20:49:59 GMT -5
He's majoring in Global Studies with a minor in Business, so it could definitely be useful down the road if he pits his mind to advancing his position.
Post by Captain Serious on Aug 30, 2014 21:10:17 GMT -5
elle if my husband works an additional 6 months or a year past what we've planned, it will either mean that we have to live separately during that time or that my kids will have to go another year of school in their current district. Staying put will mean my oldest son will enter a new school in NJ next year and then have to start all over in a new school in VT the following year. That is not going to happen to accommodate my nephew.
Not to mention that we had hoped to move THIS year, but stayed an extra year because of the damn lawsuit against our current district. My husband is 46 years old and has worked for 20 years in a field where most people move or burn out in less than 10 years. Nonetheless, his age shouldn't matter. We have plans for him to stay home with the boys and start a home business and me to return to work. We had these plans for a long time, and don't plan to change them to accommodate someone else's desire for an expensive education. We have both witnessed first hand that the quality of an education or the person's future career prospects aren't determined by a school's price tag.
It would suck at this point for him to find out the money wasn't there, or that it's a few thousand vs full ride. But life does suck sometimes. And sometimes plans need to be adjusted. That's life.
elle if my husband works an additional 6 months or a year past what we've planned, it will either mean that we have to live separately during that time or that my kids will have to go another year of school in their current district. Staying put will mean my oldest son will enter a new school in NJ next year and then have to start all over in a new school in VT the following year. That is not going to happen to accommodate my nephew.
Not to mention that we had hoped to move THIS year, but stayed an extra year because of the damn lawsuit against our current district. My husband is 46 years old and has worked for 20 years in a field where most people move or burn out in less than 10 years. Nonetheless, his age shouldn't matter. We have plans for him to stay home with the boys and start a home business and me to return to work. We had these plans for a long time, and don't plan to change them to accommodate someone else's desire for an expensive education. We have both witnessed first hand that the quality of an education or the person's future career prospects aren't determined by a school's price tag.
I am not saying you have any obligation to accommodate an expensive education. I am saying that if this was a real promise - and you said it was, to the point you knew about it before marriage- you shouldn't have made plans for next year if they weren't compatible with paying for his education. You should have been stashing that money aside for him if you were planning to retire, just like any other expense you took on. And you should have budgeted for it when you knew he was applying.
OR if you changed your mind about paying for it, you should have told him BEFORE he enrolled in school and not just ignored the issue. There are some courts that would enforce your husband's promise to pay. If he sued you, he could enforce it. Think about that.
That said, I don't think you owe him an expensive school. But you do owe him tuition because your husband promised to pay for it, and the kid relied on it when enrolling in school. I didn't say you should pay for the whole thing or pay for an expensive school. But yeah, I do think you owe him the cost of tuition at a basic school. If it was an offhand comment I wouldn't think that, but if your husband made you aware of it before he married you, as a debt he had already incurred? Yeah. That's a real promise, and e right thing to do is honor it.
elle if my husband works an additional 6 months or a year past what we've planned, it will either mean that we have to live separately during that time or that my kids will have to go another year of school in their current district. Staying put will mean my oldest son will enter a new school in NJ next year and then have to start all over in a new school in VT the following year. That is not going to happen to accommodate my nephew.
Not to mention that we had hoped to move THIS year, but stayed an extra year because of the damn lawsuit against our current district. My husband is 46 years old and has worked for 20 years in a field where most people move or burn out in less than 10 years. Nonetheless, his age shouldn't matter. We have plans for him to stay home with the boys and start a home business and me to return to work. We had these plans for a long time, and don't plan to change them to accommodate someone else's desire for an expensive education. We have both witnessed first hand that the quality of an education or the person's future career prospects aren't determined by a school's price tag.
I am not saying you have any obligation to accommodate an expensive education. I am saying that if this was a real promise - and you said it was, to the point you knew about it before marriage- you shouldn't have made plans for next year if they weren't compatible with paying for his education. You should have been stashing that money aside for him if you were planning to retire, just like any other expense you took on. And you should have budgeted for it when you knew he was applying.
OR if you changed your mind about paying for it, you should have told him BEFORE he enrolled in school and not just ignored the issue. There are some courts that would enforce your husband's promise to pay. If he sued you, he could enforce it. Think about that.
That said, I don't think you owe him an expensive school. But you do owe him tuition because your husband promised to pay for it, and the kid relied on it when enrolling in school. I didn't say you should pay for the whole thing or pay for an expensive school. But yeah, I do think you owe him the cost of tuition at a basic school. If it was an offhand comment I wouldn't think that, but if your husband made you aware of it before he married you, as a debt he had already incurred? Yeah. That's a real promise, and e right thing to do is honor it.
First off, my husband never promised. He said something to an 8 year old about *helping* to pay for his college, and never again. He told me about it, because he always meant to help nephew out, and wanted to be sure I'd be okay with it.
Secondly, this kid lived in our home rent and utility free for over a year, which we were fine with. Then he moved out, and a few months later, moved *back in with his parents without telling or asking us.* they continued to live in our home rent and utility free for several months without permission! and we had to throw them out. This all happened during that second gap year we told him not to take. And, although this is not strictly relevant, all this is after his parents walked away from their home in debt, for which *we* paid the down payment and at least 8 months worth of payments. So, I'm not feeling like I owe the kid or his family anything, to be honest.
Thirdly, we do have the money to pay the whole 4 years today. It's not an oversight on our part or that we didn't work hard enough or squirrel enough away. It's that we are sick and tire of being taken advantage of, and feel that if we don't lay some ground rules now, there will be no end in sight for how much more expense/debt they incur without a though, because rich CaptainS and husband will take care of it.
Finally, I would have love to have this conversation with him before he enrolled, but he never told us he was applying. Every time we asked him about college, he said, "Yeah, I'm thinking of going--I don't know--maybe next summer." Then he'd stop the conversation. Since he planned to start in the summer, we assumed he meant community college and that he'd talk to us when he was more serious. After a while, we stopped asking, because I didn't want to nag him to go to school (and possibly spend more of our money) if he was serious about it for himself.
Post by Captain Serious on Aug 31, 2014 8:52:28 GMT -5
I get that at this point I likely sound like I'm making excuses to not have to pay, but this is all part of why we're so upset about all this. I do think SueSue had the kindest response, but I'm not sure how kindly I'm feeling right now, to be honest. I know we will keep to our work and help him, but I don't know how much. Time going forward will tell.
You are contradicting yourself. Don't blame me for reading what you are putting down. I am telling you that if a judge read exactly what you wrote here, you could be looking at a court order because this kid enrolled in school in reliance on an offer your husband made. I don't care about anything else you said after "it was a real offer, to the point we discussed it before getting married." I agree he sounds like an entitled shithead. I agree his parents sound like assholes. And I don't think you are in any way obligated to pay for ALL tuition at the school he chose without talking to you. I just think you are obligated, morally and possibly legally, to pay for reasonable tuition.
First off, my husband never promised. He said something to an 8 year old about *helping* to pay for his college, and never again. He told me about it, because he always meant to help nephew out, and wanted to be sure I'd be okay with it.
Education is important to my husband (and me), so he said that if nephew wanted to go to college, he'd help him pay for it. That was more than 12 years ago, but it was a real offer, to the point that we discussed it before getting married so he could be sure I'd be okay with it.
Thirdly, we do have the money to pay the whole 4 years today. It's not an oversight on our part or that we didn't work hard enough or squirrel enough away. It's that we are sick and tire of being taken advantage of, and feel that if we don't lay some ground rules now, there will be no end in sight for how much more expense/debt they incur without a though, because rich CaptainS and husband will take care of it.
By waiting an extra year (or technically two), nephew is asking us to pay for at least part of his schooling during a time for when we've planned a much smaller household budget.
Finally, I would have love to have this conversation with him before he enrolled, but he never told us he was applying. Every time we asked him about college, he said, "Yeah, I'm thinking of going--I don't know--maybe next summer." Then he'd stop the conversation. Since he planned to start in the summer, we assumed he meant community college and that he'd talk to us when he was more serious. After a while, we stopped asking, because I didn't want to nag him to go to school (and possibly spend more of our money) if he was serious about it for himself.
We often discussed when/if he was planning on going back to school. He kept saying he would. Then we heard he was applying, but we had no idea it was only to one school. Then we heard he got in.
I am not saying you have any obligation to accommodate an expensive education. I am saying that if this was a real promise - and you said it was, to the point you knew about it before marriage- you shouldn't have made plans for next year if they weren't compatible with paying for his education. You should have been stashing that money aside for him if you were planning to retire, just like any other expense you took on. And you should have budgeted for it when you knew he was applying.
OR if you changed your mind about paying for it, you should have told him BEFORE he enrolled in school and not just ignored the issue. There are some courts that would enforce your husband's promise to pay. If he sued you, he could enforce it. Think about that.
That said, I don't think you owe him an expensive school. But you do owe him tuition because your husband promised to pay for it, and the kid relied on it when enrolling in school. I didn't say you should pay for the whole thing or pay for an expensive school. But yeah, I do think you owe him the cost of tuition at a basic school. If it was an offhand comment I wouldn't think that, but if your husband made you aware of it before he married you, as a debt he had already incurred? Yeah. That's a real promise, and e right thing to do is honor it.
Finally, I would have love to have this conversation with him before he enrolled, but he never told us he was applying. Every time we asked him about college, he said, "Yeah, I'm thinking of going--I don't know--maybe next summer." Then he'd stop the conversation. Since he planned to start in the summer, we assumed he meant community college and that he'd talk to us when he was more serious. After a while, we stopped asking, because I didn't want to nag him to go to school (and possibly spend more of our money) if he was serious about it for himself.
What is done is done, but like some of us said above, it sounds like you all had an opportunity to step in at several points and make things a little more clear. If he kept putting off when he was going to start college, why didn't you say, "We still want to help you out with college, but we can only provide X amount starting in 2013 for 4 years of college. Please let us know before you enroll so that we can sit down and discuss the details about where to send the payment, when they're due, etc."
My grandparents helped pay for my college and I had heard that they were going to help when I was younger. But thankfully my parents handled everything with them because there's no way at 17 years old I'd call up my grandma and be like hey I start college in 2 months, where's that money you promised me. Awkward.
Since you all offered, it seems like the burden should be on you to make sure things are clear and fit your financial picture. So now that he's already enrolled I'd just tell him how much you can afford and for how many years and go with that. There is no need to make it anymore complicated.
This kid and his parents see your husband as their own personal bank account. Pretty sickening.
I don't blame you for feeling rage.
Morally, I think you and your DH have already gone above and beyond for this kid and his family. The kid knew good and well what he was doing by enrolling and not having the discussion about finances with you first. He and his family have taken advantage of your kindness and generosity.
I think it's time to show him how the real world works. Pay the minimum of in-state tuition, have all the strings attached (RE: grades, gpa, # of semesters, no gaps, no room and board). Sign a contract. And be done with this mess.
It enrages me that these people have been ALLOWED to be leeches in your family's money. NO WAY IN HELL would I readjust MY family's needs for these ingrates.
It's justifiable rage ... and it's also perfectly fine to shrug it off. This is a twenty year old, right? He's doing this to HIMSELF. By HIM not making better arrangements, he puts HIMSELF at financial risk for big student loans. The shrug is to say "dude, you really messed this up for yourself. Figure it out. We're not saving you. "
I think there is this odd dynamic where these family members act irresponsibly and then your DH is expected to fix it, step-in or otherwise float their bad decisions.
You spent a lot of time justifying how your HHI has/ will drop. But really, it's batshit crazy for anyone to sign-up for COLLEGE expecting a rich uncle to save you from debt.
Whatever you decide, the kid has to live with. ::Shrug:: That's the way of the (real) world.
Post by sparkythelawyer on Aug 31, 2014 10:42:51 GMT -5
I think you are justified to be pissed. He didn't really abide the terms of your deal. And really, whatever "agreement" you may have had with nephew is so ambiguous that it would be very difficult for any third party to interpret what the actual terms we or should be. Your ILs have acted boorishly, and let you know time and again that their word means nothing, but you are somehow supposed to always bend over backwards to honor their interpretation of your word. It doesn't work that way. I get your anger here.
That being said, I think anything that helps get this kid away from his nutbag parents is a good thing. If you are in a position to help, clarify your expectations and requirements with nephew and go from there. You are good people for helping him at all.
I will be the first to admit that I don't fully comprehend these types of rich people problems. The logic section of my brain wonders why you don't just tell him a flat amount of what you are comfortable with and call it a day (if you are feeling generous) or, if you are not feeling so generous just say, "sorry kid you are SOL as you decided to take 2 years off and enrolled in a top dollar institution without so much as a heads up." Either way, this should not be much of a dilemma. Am I missing something?
Finally, I would have love to have this conversation with him before he enrolled, but he never told us he was applying. Every time we asked him about college, he said, "Yeah, I'm thinking of going--I don't know--maybe next summer." Then he'd stop the conversation. Since he planned to start in the summer, we assumed he meant community college and that he'd talk to us when he was more serious. After a while, we stopped asking, because I didn't want to nag him to go to school (and possibly spend more of our money) if he was serious about it for himself.
This right here is the crux of your problem. Assumptions and poor communication. Since you assumed one thing and he clearly assumed something else, now you have to sit down with him, and your husband and work out some clear parameters of what you and your H expect--since you are essentially bankrolling his education.
I think you have a right to be mad at him and his family for taking advantage of your cabin--but this is an entirely different issue, and it kinda seems like some (okay a lot) of the issue stems from poor, and passive communication: probably on both your parts. But he was a kid, and you guys were adults who MADE the offer, you should have been controlling the situation. Not him.
No matter what you decide, funding a certain amount to any college of his choice, funding community college, funding a certain college, NOT funding etc---you need to come to the table knowing that, and expecting him to have something to say about the situation as well.