Help me decide how much is BEC

[Captain Serious]

And how much is righteous indignation and rage.

Because I'm MAD, and don't know how much of a right I have to be furious, and how much is just left over from previous issues.

Some of you may remember the issues we had with my BIL (husband's brother), SIL, and nephew living in our ski house. It's not really relevant to this story, with the exception for explaining why I'm so quick to be furious over this latest incident. They have proven themselves to be ungrateful and greedy, taking more than is expressly given and not even saying thank you.

So our new (and by my word, this will be our last) issue with them stems from my husband offering to pay for his nephew's college--way back when the nephew was 8 years old or younger. Education is important to my husband (and me), so he said that if nephew wanted to go to college, he'd help him pay for it. That was more than 12 years ago, but it was a real offer, to the point that we discussed it before getting married so he could be sure I'd be okay with it.

Nephew graduated high school two years ago. We had agreed to let him take a gap year and stay in our ski house during that time, but were clear that he could only take one year. Instead of one year off, he took two years.

He applied to college, got in, and started taking classes on Tuesday. He did all this without talking to us about it, about what school he was going to, if he'd get in-state tuition, if he was living on campus or not, if he was going full-time or not. In short, he enrolled and started talking college courses all without talking to us about it, or the expense, or even if the offer my husband made to help him out 12 years ago, that was tied to him only taking one year off, still stood. He sent my husband a text this week saying he wanted to discuss college. We sat down with him yesterday, and he told us he wanted to know "how paying for it would go."

We feel blindsided, it's not that we don't want to help, but he's going to a much more expensive school than we imagined, he's talking about only going part time during the winter "so he can work" (translation: so he can be a snowboard bum because he works at the mountain), and he thinks we're going to foot the bill until he gets around to graduating.

We were willing to pay a reasonable amount to help him pay for school, but expected to be consulted *before* he incurred the expense, so we could lay out our expectations and limitations/how much we could help. We had a very expensive year full of unexpected expenses (not the least of which was our crazy expensive lawsuit against the school district), and are planning a huge move that will involve a drastic reduction in our family income in the next year. By waiting an extra year (or technically two), nephew is asking us to pay for at least part of his schooling during a time for when we've planned a much smaller household budget.

We're outraged that he would incur all this debt without talking to us first. At least he did apply for financial aide, although he didn't even exhaust all those programs. We told him to apply to all the available financial aide programs, find out what they would provide, and then talk to us again after he finds out what aide might be available to him. Then, and only then, will we give him an idea of how much we can help. We also told him to expect that we will likely not be able to pay for four full years at this rate. We will not jeopardize our family's future and my husband will not work one day longer than planned as a result of his recklessness.

TL/DR: husband offered to help nephew with college expenses over 12 years ago; nephew enrolled in expensive school without asking if offer still stands or asking what we can afford, and has now come looking for us to foot the bill. BEC or justifiable rage?

[sugarbear]

Ugh. What a shitty position to be in.

In my family, the conversation would likely focus on the cost of in-state tuition at the local university, minus financial aid. So, if today, that is $8,453, then that is what the kid would be pledged for four years.

That way, you've upheld your end of the bargain, but he has to work harder dur to his poor planning.

[sapphireblue]

No, I think you are justified here. He seems to be operating with a real sense of entitlement, which is a huge turnoff.

Good that you turned it back on him a bit, by saying he needs to at least apply to all financial aid, etc. It is also annoying because your SIL and BIL must have encouraged or condoned this plan/attitude of his. They all seem to be too entitled and it's not cool.

[speckledfrog]

JFC. This is 100% justifiable rage.

It is not, at all, unreasonable for you to make your (extremely generous and completely unnecessary at this point) financial support contingent on him transferring schools, going full time, and maintaining a certain GPA. This kid could certainly benefit from some real life parameters to combat of all the entitled tomfoolery he has grown accustomed to.

[citrusmint]

Zero parts of this reads as BEC to me. This kid is acting like a nasty entitled brat and you need to set clear boundaries.

"Hey Steven, we can contribute x per year for your college education."

Or if you feel he lost his chance by taking 2 years off then too bad so sad sorry to hear it.

This is such a tough situation, money and family is always a pain to sort through. Best of luck.

[demelza]

Not Bec. Circumstances with your life and finances change. You will help nephew out if you can afford to but don't compromise your own family to do so. He is responsible for his life as he is an adult. You tell him how much you can currently afford to contribute, he can always decide to transfer to a less expensive school. You are Not the bad guy!

[Captain Serious]

We never expressly discussed parameters or limits. But it's also not like my husband told him regularly, "Nephew, I'm going to pay for your college."

Once, a long time ago, my husband was talking about the importance of college and said he'd help pay for it. In the years that followed, we had many conversations about how taking a gap year would eliminate any chance at scholarships and that waiting more than a year to enroll was not okay, because it would likely be too hard to return seriously, especially if he was supporting himself.

We often discussed when/if he was planning on going back to school. He kept saying he would. Then we heard he was applying, but we had no idea it was only to one school. Then we heard he got in. The day he texted my husband was the day we found out he had already enrolled and was taking classes.

[citrusmint]

The last paragraph of your reply post reads so much like "oooo, uncle is my piggybank"

Yuck. I'm sorry Captain Serious.

[Captain Serious]

Thank you all for helping me to know for certain that I am not crazy. My husband and I alternate who is more enraged. This morning it was him, now he is sleeping like a baby and I am shaking mad.

[Deleted]

My baby is 17 years from graduating. Even if one of our relatives said they'd pay I would continue her college savings because who knows what may change in those 17 years. If 17 years from now they say here is the $x I promised, well she can either bank that money to use as needed or after school to pay for whatever or I'll bank mine for a very nice gifted down payment or something.

I'd never assume that meant save nothing. And I would instruct her yo do the same.

So I vote no. You're not wrong in your anger or requiring him to do more legwork. A responsible someone would have checked in when starting to apply. Not after starting.

[redheadk]

Not BEC and if you do decide to contribute, I would set parameters and make him take loans and write a check to the loan company directly at the end of the semester. Make the money contingent on maintaining a certain grade in the class and put a time limit on it (8 semesters or whatever you are comfortable with) since it sounds like he plans to dick around.

[polarbearfans]

Can he take the general classes at a local community college? I know my
Alma Mater had a partnership with a local community college and the credits transferred perfectly and cost less than half as much.

[Captain Serious]

Aug 29, 2014 23:59:08 GMT -5 @booby said:

While I agree he is presumptuous in his actions, I can't help but wonder why this wasn't nipped in the bud earlier. If you did have an intention of paying/helping to pay, why wasn't this shut down when he didn't enroll last year? The conversation last summer should have been, "of you are taking a second gap year? Ok, then know that we are unable to help you since our agreement was no more than one gap year".

Honestly, because after everything that happened last year with he and his parents moving into our ski house without asking and us having to practically throw them out, it never occurred to us that he would still think to ask us to fund his college. He broke the agreement and if he wanted or expected our help, we assumed he'd ask for it during the application process. We really were floored by his assumption that it was our responsibility.

Of course, in retrospect, I see how their actions last year should have prepared us for this, but I really have never encountered people with this little self respect before, yet alone imagined them in our family.

[Captain Serious]

Aug 30, 2014 0:28:22 GMT -5 polarbearfans said:

Can he take the general classes at a local community college? I know my
Alma Mater had a partnership with a local community college and the credits transferred perfectly and cost less than half as much.

I'll look into this. In an ideal world, I'd have him look into it, but I'm afraid he'd just tell us it's not possible.

[noodleoo]

OH HELL NO!!! Wow, what an entitled, ungrateful brat. At this point, I'd probably say sorry, you blew the rules of the deal and are an ungrateful brat and you need to figure this out yourself. Sometimes you have to do the tough love thing. If you let him get away with this then 1) he will continue to take advantage of your generosity for the rest of your life and 2) he will never learn to grow up, be independent and take care of himself financially. I realize it would be incredibly heartless to say you won't pay at all (although honestly I think that's what you should do, you need to teach him consequences for his actions). So maybe agree to give him $5K a year for 4 years, or as another poster suggested whatever the equivalent of in state, public tuition would be and say that's it, the rest of it is yours to figure out. I'd also suggest if he's mature enough, you guys sit down with him and show him the calculations about how much his loans are going to cost and how much he's going to need to make when he graduates to pay them. He needs a serious wake up call.

And yes, I'd be shaking mad with rage!!! I'm mad for you just reading this. That kid has balls!!

[Jalapeñomel]

Tell him that you are willing to give him X amount of dollars for school, and the rest he will have to come up with on his own.

EDIT: that's,if you are still going to help. If not, tell him,sorryyoublewit. Good luck.

[Captain Serious]

Oh, SueSue, that's what I was afraid of. That if I backed out all the recent hurt feelings caused by his and his family recently (all about their lack of any financial planing or managing ability), I'd see this for what it really may be: an awkward teen just trying to get ahead and excited about college. Although we didn't give him the answer he hoped about paying for it all, we did sit around with him for a few hours and discuss his classes, the campus, and other aspects of college life with him, so I hope he understands that we just hate the way he handled this, and not him.

[ECB]

I fully get your anger. Fully. But - I would also hope that suesue is right about his motivations!

The thing is - he's being raised by 2 very entitled people. Some of this absolutely is entitlement on his part. Absolutely. However, if you find the right balance, the right parameters, you really can help him and make him realize that everything won't be handed to him. He HAS to work for it. Help get whatever $$ he can get, X number of credits a year, a certain GPA, etc.

Hopefully pushing him on that side will help him lose some of that entitled attitude and hopefully round him into a more productive member of society.

Good luck!!

[speckledfrog]

While I think Sue's Herculean efforts to get her children into their colleges of choice is admirable, my parents would have laughed me off the face of Earth if I had chosen something beyond what we could afford. If you have the desire to work your ass off to keep him where he is, then do so, but please don't think that that's the only thing a good person would do. It's perfectly fine to set limits and parameters.

[Captain Serious]

I just don't think that we have the ability to actually go to his financial aid meetings with him. The school is in VT, we live in NJ, and my kids are starting school and my husband is going back to work (after being off for vacation) on Wednesday. In addition, J's got 4 medical appointments in Philly, including a minor surgery that will keep him recovering and out of school for about a week--all within our first two weeks home. I'm already shuddering at all the work he'll have to make up. On top of that, we've got J's birthday and party, a local funeral mass for my aunt who lived in Egypt that my Dad wants me to attend, a social worker visit and a court date for the boys' readoption. Add in the four days my husband will be traveling for a conference and the kids' sports and therapy schedules starting up, and I really don't have any idea when we'd be able to make the 4-5 hour drive up on a weekday to have this kind of meeting.

I know that this may sound like I'm trying to find excuses not to go, but it would be incredibly inconvenient for us to find and take the time to go up there. Yet one more reason this would have been so much better if he talked to us earlier; we could have arranged for a meeting during our time off while we were already up in the area.

[speckledfrog]

I don't want to me it seem like my parents just let me fend for myself when it came to college. My mom researched colleges, filled out my applications (growing up was paralyzing to me, okay!) to make sure that I went, and started working a second job. There was a lot of support. The college I went to was one my parents could afford. That was part of the deal. They paid every penny of all four years and I graduated with zero student loans. Now, that was a gift.

[Deleted]

Aug 29, 2014 23:59:08 GMT -5 @booby said:

While I agree he is presumptuous in his actions, I can't help but wonder why this wasn't nipped in the bud earlier. If you did have an intention of paying/helping to pay, why wasn't this shut down when he didn't enroll last year? The conversation last summer should have been, "of you are taking a second gap year? Ok, then know that we are unable to help you since our agreement was no more than one gap year".

I agree with this.

But what's done is done. So at this point I would figure out how much you can afford. Then, tell nephew that you can afford X amount for 4 years contingent that each year he maintains a 3.0 gpa. You can let him know that due to the gap years and change in your family budget this is what you can offer.

That way things are clear, you aren't on the hook if he plans to spend 17 years in college.

I honestly wouldn't even force him to look at financial aid, scholarships, etc. That just seems like too much stress that you shouldn't have to worry about.

You are very generous to offer this!

[suzyp]

Aug 30, 2014 8:42:42 GMT -5 Captain Serious said:

I just don't think that we have the ability to actually go to his financial aid meetings with him. The school is in VT, we live in NJ, and my kids are starting school and my husband is going back to work (after being off for vacation) on Wednesday. In addition, J's got 4 medical appointments in Philly, including a minor surgery that will keep him recovering and out of school for about a week--all within our first two weeks home. I'm already shuddering at all the work he'll have to make up. On top of that, we've got J's birthday and party, a local funeral mass for my aunt who lived in Egypt that my Dad wants me to attend, a social worker visit and a court date for the boys' readoption. Add in the four days my husband will be traveling for a conference and the kids' sports and therapy schedules starting up, and I really don't have any idea when we'd be able to make the 4-5 hour drive up on a weekday to have this kind of meeting.

I know that this may sound like I'm trying to find excuses not to go, but it would be incredibly inconvenient for us to find and take the time to go up there. Yet one more reason this would have been so much better if he talked to us earlier; we could have arranged for a meeting during our time off while we were already up in the area.

My bias of paying for college myself is probably coming through but I honestly don't think YOU should have to go to the financial aid office. He's 20. And an adult. He should be able to figure this out and talk.to them himself. This is not your responsibility. Even if you want to help him.  I figured all this out when I was 18.

and you have every right to be mad but I think you do need to look at his parents and try to go from there. 

[CajunShrimp]

A college will accept him, and allow him to sign up for classes, but at some point between those two events, financial matters were discussed. He was probably told 'Tuition is X, you have Y in fin aid, and you owe Z." That amount is due before classes start, and if it is not paid, they will drop him from his classes and he would have to pay up and then try to sign up again. Sometimes they will let it go for a week, two at the tops, but they won't let him continue to attend classes unless he is paid up. That college is expecting to be paid right now and it blows my mind he didn't make those arrangements ahead of time.

The fact that he got all the way through this process before he had a discussion with you is ridiculous. It also makes me wonder if maybe his parents are paying Z, and expecting you guys to reimburse them. This whole things sounds strange.

[cville]

Aug 30, 2014 8:45:30 GMT -5 speckledfrog said:

I don't want to me it seem like my parents just let me fend for myself when it came to college. My mom researched colleges, filled out my applications (growing up was paralyzing to me, okay!) to make sure that I went, and started working a second job. There was a lot of support. The college I went to was one my parents could afford. That was part of the deal. They paid every penny of all four years and I graduated with zero student loans. Now, that was a gift.

My parents gave me a hard cap:  4 years, in state, tuition and board.  I was on my own for the rest.  So if I'd wanted to go to fancy private liberal arts college across the country they'd have been like "Cool.  Get some scholarships or a loan to cover the difference.  P.s. if you want to visit mid-semester, you're buying your own flights.  Love you!"

[dirtyred]

For some reason my phone won't let me quote;, it I am with Cajun 100 percent.

At some point, this guy was given an estimate or bill of how much it was going to cost. That he didn't discuss this with you AT ALL before classes startedd leads me to the conclusion that he (and his parents) think you are paying for all of it.

Being the bitch that I am, I'd start the conversation with how he broke the agreement by taking two years off to clue him in on how the rest of the conversation was going to go.

Definitely tie all kinds of strings to the money you give him--as others have said, hours taken (ask for proof after registration), grades (again, ask for proof), and timeline.

I won't get into the gory details, but we had to do this with one of my stepsons. He had to pay us back for bad grades before we would pay the next semester's bill. Cost him around $2500 before he realized that he ought to study. And he had a fouryear limit, so lazy guy had to pay for 3 semesters himself.

[10nille]

If he is taking less classes to be a snowbum then you shouldn't be paying for 6+ years of college (or however long it takes him to finish). He already took 2 years to play and if he is going part time then ALL his money goes toward his education.

You made a promise, but he lost out on taking the extra year. Does he even realize it had contingencies on helping him with college? I'd be angry. 20 is old enough to know the world is not revolving around them.

[Captain Serious]

Aug 30, 2014 10:02:11 GMT -5 CajunShrimp said:

A college will accept him, and allow him to sign up for classes, but at some point between those two events, financial matters were discussed. He was probably told 'Tuition is X, you have Y in fin aid, and you owe Z." That amount is due before classes start, and if it is not paid, they will drop him from his classes and he would have to pay up and then try to sign up again. Sometimes they will let it go for a week, two at the tops, but they won't let him continue to attend classes unless he is paid up. That college is expecting to be paid right now and it blows my mind he didn't make those arrangements ahead of time.

The fact that he got all the way through this process before he had a discussion with you is ridiculous. It also makes me wonder if maybe his parents are paying Z, and expecting you guys to reimburse them. This whole things sounds strange.

The money isn't due until sometime in October. He started classes on Tuesday. He knows how much he owes, but waited until the last minute to get his financial aide papers in, so he doesn't know how much aid will/may be available to him. He only had to pay a couple hundred dollars to "secure his spot" upon acceptance.

[Deleted]

My opinion is that you offered to pay for college. You told him to only take one gap year. he took two. While I can see why he may think you will still pay if you didn't tell him at year two "The offer is null and void, you took two years off buddy" But maybe you did. Either way I think at this point you sit with him and explain that you had certain caveats and he broke them. You are willing to pay X amount for school contingent his GPA is ____. Put it in writing and have him sign it. I have seen these kinds of things go south fast

[miniroller]

Ok. So I'm somewhat repeating, but I agree with the suggestion to sit down & have a mtg, for which you&H are uber-prepared with a contract. The terms of which are, of course, to your discretion, but briefly
-You'll only pay $_____ amount, full-time/ part-time/ whatever he decides, but the total will not go over $_____
-He needs to maintain at least ___ GPA. I was going to say 3.0, but 2.8 if you are feeling lenient, depending on his area of study
(Tuition for semesters in which he fails to meet this quota are doubled into his withdraw account. I.e. If you pd $6,500 for a semester
that the GPA wasn't reached, you subtract $13,000 from the overall total you agreed to pay)
-He needs to complete the FAFSA form annually (his parents will have to agree to fork over their W2 info) & apply for minimum 3
scholarships annually. You'll need copies of the applications prior to the due date. This is an area that I might even offer extra help, if
you can? As far as- instructing him how to approach the financial aid office, proofing essays, etc. This part is mainly to show that this
isn't just a free ride; he's got some work to do; let's see how badly he wants it.

Kid sounds like he's had a shitty example (from your prev story of his family's asshattery). I'd definitely try to remember that in your offer to help. He can take it or leave it, but here's how the real world works.