4 mo wakeful/sleep training

[IndiaInk]

We are definitely going through the four month wakeful.  DD has gone from sleeping 8-10 hours straight at night, since 7 or 8 weeks old (!!) to waking up every couple hours for the past few nights and not napping during the day, unless she's in the Boba carrier.  She's always need to be nursed to sleep and it takes a good hour to get her down for the night and then again during night time feedings.  Obviously, that is not ideal but she was such a good sleeper, I was okay with it. 

But now we can't get her to sleep for the life of us, unless we put in our bed and let her nurse/pacify herself on me all night.  I'm about fed up.  I just got done reading Weissbluth and I'm speed-reading my way through Ferber's book.  

Is there any reason to not start sleep training (Ferber method) right now, during the 4 month wakeful?  DH is committed and convinced we should go for it immediately.  Thoughts?

[Pilsy]

Following


Poor sleep in enemy #1 here. I'm struggling big time.
I'm a pissy grouch at my husband all the time bc I'm wired to need a lot of sleep. I spend my patience on the baby and have none left for him. He does some stuff to deserve a "c'mon" but I get much more fed up than that while so short on Zzzs.

We desperately need help but I'm waiting to speak with the pedi at our 4-month appointment since E has fallen on the weight curve. I think she's just meant to be thin bc she eats well (usually) and my milk seems fine but I need reassurance before possibly cutting out overnight feedings.

I wish the Weissbluth book had more practical advice. I found it too theoretical and big picture.

ETA: Good luck to you!

[IndiaInk]

Aug 31, 2014 18:16:36 GMT -5 Pilsy said:

Following


Poor sleep in enemy #1 here. I'm struggling big time.
I'm a pissy grouch at my husband all the time bc I'm wired to need a lot of sleep. I spend my patience on the baby and have none left for him. He does some stuff to deserve a "c'mon" but I get much more fed up than that while so short on Zzzs.

We desperately need help but I'm waiting to speak with the pedi at our 4-month appointment since E has fallen on the weight curve. I think she's just meant to be thin bc she eats well (usually) and my milk seems fine but I need reassurance before possibly cutting out overnight feedings.

I wish the Weissbluth book had more practical advice. I found it too theoretical and big picture.

ETA: Good luck to you!

Yeah, we have a 4 mo appt with our pedi on the 9th, so part of me is tempted to wait til then.  But she's in fine health so I don't think that's a reason for us not to sleep train.  I don't plan to cut out nighttime feedings - she's still young and I have no problem feeding her if she's hungry during the night.  I just want to kill the 1+ hour going-back-to-sleep bullshit routine.  

Weissbluth was a bit confusing to me, and made me feel like anything I did was bound to be wrong. The Ferber book is much more helpful, so far.  

[Pilsy]

I'll try Ferber! Thanks for the comparison.


And agreed: I may be confusing training with cutting nighttime feedings. I'm not confident about this stuff bc I find it difficult to know whether she really needs to eat. I want to feed her if she needs it but not if she doesn't. Like you, though, biggest priority is getting her to put herself to sleep. Enough with the hour-long song and dance each time, TYVM! I'll miss the snuggles but we'll all be better off.

And yeah, I think you're safe to get started if you're up for it!

[Deleted]

Pilsy, you are me! I am a bitch and it's due to lack of sleep. I dont have patience left for H. The girls were literally up every single hour the week before last and I wasn't sleeping at all. I too amd wired for a lot of sleep and h isn't so he doesn't understand where I'm coming from exactly. But since I'm nursing I'm the one up with them.

They both also have weight gain issues due to the allergies so I can't cut thr nightime feedings. They started to get back to a bit better this week giving me a 3 to 4 hr stretch at first and then every 2. But not sure how long I can make it when I'm back at work.

Basicslly this was just my rambling post to say me too

[Pilsy]

Aug 31, 2014 18:43:54 GMT -5 @awinter said:

Pilsy, you are me! I am a bitch and it's due to lack of sleep. I dont have patience left for H. The girls were literally up every single hour the week before last and I wasn't sleeping at all. I too amd wired for a lot of sleep and h isn't so he doesn't understand where I'm coming from exactly. But since I'm nursing I'm the one up with them.

They both also have weight gain issues due to the allergies so I can't cut thr nightime feedings. They started to get back to a bit better this week giving me a 3 to 4 hr stretch at first and then every 2. But not sure how long I can make it when I'm back at work.

Basicslly this was just my rambling post to say me too

Hugs!  

I understand so very well.  To me, you are super woman.  I mean, I have one baby…    

[bananapancakes]

I have no advice. Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. We had about a 2 week stretch of waking every 90 minutes all night long. Saturday night he did a 3 hour stretch and four wake ups and last night he did a 5 hour stretch and 3 wake ups. I hope this means the beginning of the end although I'm not holding my breath.

I know I don't have it in me to sleep train/CIO so I've been reading the NCSS and trying to implement her ideas. I'll report back if I find it working.

Hang in there ladies! Sleep deprivation is no joke!

[Deleted]

Aug 31, 2014 19:13:01 GMT -5 bananapancakes said:

I have no advice. Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. We had about a 2 week stretch of waking every 90 minutes all night long. Saturday night he did a 3 hour stretch and four wake ups and last night he did a 5 hour stretch and 3 wake ups. I hope this means the beginning of the end although I'm not holding my breath.

I know I don't have it in me to sleep train/CIO so I've been reading the NCSS and trying to implement her ideas. I'll report back if I find it working.

Hang in there ladies! Sleep deprivation is no joke!

This seems to be my experience as well. They seem to be coming out of the worst of it giving me some longer stretches. I mean, I can at least survive like this. I don't know what to do because I don't think I can do cio. I have read every sleep book out there, ferber, weisbluth, no cry sleep solution, the list goes on and on. I never could do cio with j and after a year we made up our own "method". But with two of them I'm scared. A lot of the parenting things I did with j aren't sustainable with two ugh, and this is when I feel like a shit mother. Because I have two babies I might have to do something I wouldn't do if there were only one. I seriously struggle with this so much. So please babies, just go back to sleeping!

[Deleted]

Lol Pilsy, if you saw me in action superwoman would NOT be the word you used. I am flailing big time. So much of what I did with j isn't sustainable with two infants. I'm really struggling with being the parent of 3 under 2 (well J is 2 now but you know what I mean). I have definitely shown some of the worst of myself over the past 5 months unfortunately h had taken the brunt of it.

[bananapancakes]

@awinter, don't be so hard on yourself. I'm sure you are doing a much better job than you give yourself credit for! This shit is hard! (((Hugs)))

[daisy24342]

I think we did a version of CIO maybe a week before 5mos. I waited as long as I could, and went for it. Couple rough nights but then bliss.......he still woke up to nurse around 1am,but that was fine!! For me it was teaching him how to sleep on his own. I look at him now ( almost one) and how easy bedtime is and I can't believe it's the same kid. He was AWFUL from 3-4 months.....

[rt2008]

We our pedi's blessing, we did CIO at 4 months. It went surprisingly well, and she was finally able to nap in her crib after we sleep trained!

[rugbywife]

We are waiting until 5 months to sleep train. Not sure which method we will use. Probably going to start with the one where you stay in the room in the dark and say 'shhhh' but don't touch the baby. If that doesn't work we will do straight up Ferber.

DD will be 5 months on September 8th which is a Monday…we will do it later that week, starting on the Friday.

[daisycat]

Is there any method that works that isn't a CIO? I am pretty sure that I won't be able to do that as I still get stressed when he cries and the more tired I am the less I can handle it.

[rugbywife]

I don't know anything about non CIO methods. I will say that I don't know how I am going to get her to not feed at night.

[daisycat]

Aug 31, 2014 21:20:56 GMT -5 rugbywife said:

I don't know anything about non CIO methods. I will say that I don't know how I am going to get her to not feed at night.

I don't think getting my guy not to feed at night is even an option. At least not for a while. 

[turtlegirl]

I didn't read all the replies. But we sleep trained with CIO both kids at 4 months old with our pedis blessing. No regrets. They are both great sleeps now.

[daisycat]

Any tips for the moms on CIO? I still can't stand hearing him cry. I get super stressed.

[IndiaInk]

Aug 31, 2014 22:37:27 GMT -5 daisycat said:

Any tips for the moms on CIO? I still can't stand hearing him cry. I get super stressed.

This page summarizes the Ferber sleep training schedule. noobmommy.com/2008/11/to-ferberize-or-not-to-ferberize.html

 We are on night one, so we let her cry 3 mins, then checked her/soothed her verbally, let her cry 5 more mins, checked her, let her cry 10 more mins, checked her and then she cried another 10 mins and fell asleep.  

I had DH go in and verbally soothe her.  It bothered me less than I expected.  I baked a cake and listened to music and tried to tune it out.  I had just nursed her, so I knew she was not hungry.  And hallelujah..it worked and she's asleep.  

Ask me again in a couple hours when we are doing this in the middle of the night. I might be less peppy.

[Deleted]

I did it with success at that age. Happy to answer any specific questions you may have.

[Pilsy]

Aug 31, 2014 23:42:39 GMT -5 @carmensandiego said:

I did it with success at that age. Happy to answer any specific questions you may have.

Was your daughter still nursing or getting a bottle overnight?  If so, how did you decided when to nurse and when to just let her cry?  E was sleeping through the night for a few weeks almost two months ago, so part of me thinks she doesn’t need to eat overnight; but she has been for a while now so I don’t dare let her go without it.  At this point, I tend to try soothing her with the pacifier and maybe her lovey (which I remove if she falls asleep) and if that doesn’t work after a while, I nurse her.  She’s up 3 - 4 times most nights these days, and I only nurse her once, sometimes twice.  

But if we’re trying to get her to self soothe and not resort to nursing when not needed, how do I know when it is necessary?  Do I even make sense?  

Also, did you read all the books or just summaries?  I’m not being lazy, I just find I have zero time to read lately.  I have skimmed what I think are the relevant pieces of Weissbluth’s book and I find it too theoretical and not helpful with practical, step-by-step directions.  India says Ferber is better, so I’ll get on that, but if an online summary will suffice, I may take the easy route.  

Thanks!  

Also, @awinter, I still think you’re super.  You deserve more credit than you’re giving yourself!  

[IndiaInk]

Holy cow you guys. Last night went so well. After crying for 30 mins with checks, she fell asleep at 8:20pm and STTN til 7 am with only one quick wake up at 2. I fed her and changed her and put her back to bed and she only cried 3 mins and then fell asleep.
At one point around 5 we heard her whimpering and then she put herself back to sleep. That never happens! And l this is without the swaddle she's been using since birth!

I'm pretty happy right now. Let's hope this works again tomorrow.
Thanks for the advice!

[bananapancakes]

Aug 31, 2014 21:10:43 GMT -5 daisycat said:

Is there any method that works that isn't a CIO? I am pretty sure that I won't be able to do that as I still get stressed when he cries and the more tired I am the less I can handle it.

I know I won't be able to handle CIO either so I'm working my way through the No Cry Sleep Solution.

www.amazon.ca/No-Cry-Sleep-Solution-Gentle-Through/dp/0071381392/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1409581535&sr=1-1&keywords=no+cry+sleep+solution

[Pilsy]

Sept 1, 2014 9:19:13 GMT -5 IndiaInk said:

Holy cow you guys. Last night went so well. After crying for 30 mins with checks, she fell asleep at 8:20pm and STTN til 7 am with only one quick wake up at 2. I fed her and changed her and put her back to bed and she only cried 3 mins and then fell asleep.
At one point around 5 we heard her whimpering and then she put herself back to sleep. That never happens! And l this is without the swaddle she's been using since birth!

I'm pretty happy right now. Let's hope this works again tomorrow.
Thanks for the advice!

Keep us posted about tonight!  

[Deleted]

Sept 1, 2014 7:29:45 GMT -5 Pilsy said:

Aug 31, 2014 23:42:39 GMT -5 @carmensandiego said:

I did it with success at that age. Happy to answer any specific questions you may have.

Was your daughter still nursing or getting a bottle overnight?  If so, how did you decided when to nurse and when to just let her cry?  E was sleeping through the night for a few weeks almost two months ago, so part of me thinks she doesn’t need to eat overnight; but she has been for a while now so I don’t dare let her go without it.  At this point, I tend to try soothing her with the pacifier and maybe her lovey (which I remove if she falls asleep) and if that doesn’t work after a while, I nurse her.  She’s up 3 - 4 times most nights these days, and I only nurse her once, sometimes twice.  

But if we’re trying to get her to self soothe and not resort to nursing when not needed, how do I know when it is necessary?  Do I even make sense?  

Also, did you read all the books or just summaries?  I’m not being lazy, I just find I have zero time to read lately.  I have skimmed what I think are the relevant pieces of Weissbluth’s book and I find it too theoretical and not helpful with practical, step-by-step directions.  India says Ferber is better, so I’ll get on that, but if an online summary will suffice, I may take the easy route.  

Thanks!  

Also, @awinter, I still think you’re super.  You deserve more credit than you’re giving yourself!  

Yes I was still nursing. My girls never took a bottle. I wanted to get down to one feeding a night, so we established midnight the cut off. Any wake ups that happened before midnight, H would go in and do Ferber. I went in and nursed for the first wake up after midnight. Then H handled the rest again until morning. It took 3 nights.

I did read the books when dd1 was small and I recommend them because think they have a lot of interesting info, but you don't have to. Basically Ferber is just going in for checks at graduated intervals--so for each wakeup, go on after 2 min, 5 min, 10 min, then 15 min and continue with 15 min until they are asleep. At the next wake up, start again with 2 min. You can change these times if you want, the point is to just increase the amount of times between checks.

[Deleted]

Oh and when checking you just pat on the back, talk softly to soothe, etc but don't pick the baby up

[spanikopita]

Aug 31, 2014 21:10:43 GMT -5 daisycat said:

Is there any method that works that isn't a CIO? I am pretty sure that I won't be able to do that as I still get stressed when he cries and the more tired I am the less I can handle it.

Leave the house?

[IndiaInk]

Sept 1, 2014 9:46:00 GMT -5 Pilsy said:

Sept 1, 2014 9:19:13 GMT -5 IndiaInk said:

Holy cow you guys. Last night went so well. After crying for 30 mins with checks, she fell asleep at 8:20pm and STTN til 7 am with only one quick wake up at 2. I fed her and changed her and put her back to bed and she only cried 3 mins and then fell asleep.
At one point around 5 we heard her whimpering and then she put herself back to sleep. That never happens! And l this is without the swaddle she's been using since birth!

I'm pretty happy right now. Let's hope this works again tomorrow.
Thanks for the advice!

Keep us posted about tonight!  

Night 2: cried for 15 mins and then slept through the night without waking up (8 hrs).

The biggest success IMO is that she's learning quickly how to go to sleep on her own without being held/nursed. The 1+ hour routine of putting her back to sleep whenever she'd wake, was more frustrating that the fact that she wasn't STTN. We are seeing success on both fronts though, so I'm thrilled.

[rugbywife]

Sept 2, 2014 11:34:36 GMT -5 IndiaInk said:

Sept 1, 2014 9:46:00 GMT -5 Pilsy said:

Keep us posted about tonight!

Night 2: cried for 15 mins and then slept through the night without waking up (8 hrs).

The biggest success IMO is that she's learning quickly how to go to sleep on her own without being held/nursed. The 1+ hour routine of putting her back to sleep whenever she'd wake, was more frustrating that the fact that she wasn't STTN. We are seeing success on both fronts though, so I'm thrilled.

Previous to your sleep training how many times a night souls she have woken up?

[IndiaInk]

Sept 3, 2014 20:50:45 GMT -5 rugbywife said:

Sept 2, 2014 11:34:36 GMT -5 IndiaInk said:

Night 2: cried for 15 mins and then slept through the night without waking up (8 hrs).

The biggest success IMO is that she's learning quickly how to go to sleep on her own without being held/nursed. The 1+ hour routine of putting her back to sleep whenever she'd wake, was more frustrating that the fact that she wasn't STTN. We are seeing success on both fronts though, so I'm thrilled.

Previous to your sleep training how many times a night souls she have woken up?

She'd slept thru the night since about 7 wks...I'm not denying she's a pretty good sleeper naturally. But in the last week or two she had suddenly started waking every 90 mins to two hours and then taking an hour to get back to sleep after nursing. It's mainly the self-soothing to sleep that we were most concerned with.