Post by sandyapples on Sept 15, 2014 13:23:50 GMT -5
I can't do the original chart because I'm not in the US, but according to the Wiki chart I grew up lower middle and now we are (barely) upper middle. That sounds right to me.
I really think it comes down to how you grew up. I grew up almost poor and I am happy to say we are upper middle. H was a little bit more well off than I was and he has been reluctant to say we are upper middle.
Post by readyin07 on Sept 15, 2014 13:25:53 GMT -5
I just can't with this. I refuse to look at the chart for fear that we are solidly below middle class on a single income but that was my choice. I am also "poor" enough to not completely understand why someone who was above middle class would not embrace that.
When I'm no longer poor and out of middle class, you all will be the first to hear me AW about it. There won't be any shame in my game as I throw around the benjamins.
Why are some people so stuck in a bubble? You can be proud of your success without being a douche about it.
You seem to be moving the target of "upper class" constantly in order to ensure it doesn't define you. First it was someone who made way more than you; next it's some undefinable "elite" quality. The simple fact is that economically you are a part of the upper class. It's disingenuous at best and insulting at worst that you keep insisting you're middle class.
Um, no. First I said I wasn't upper class because I am not an oil heiress and have to work for a living; later I said because I am not a household name/Forbes lister. Those are kind of the same thing?
I just think that the middle class encompasses most Americans (whether they're lower middle class, or middle middle class, or upper middle class, or upper upper middle class). And I think I fall somewhere in that list.
It really all is semantics about what "upper class" is. I think people can be plenty rich while still being somewhere in the upper middle class, socioeconomically.
I think people are also going off of things you've said in the past and your general posts that don't match up to reality and being middle class.
I can't remember the exact comment, but you basically said that you couldn't/wouldn't go on a vacation under 5k because it wouldn't create lasting memories for you.
It's comments like those that make people realize you don't fall in the middle class, at all, which are then brought in to every such debate about wealth.
Post by illgetthere on Sept 15, 2014 13:45:57 GMT -5
I don't like kooshball's chart. While we are solidly middle class based on everything in the chart except income, and we are middle class from the other income calculator, kooshball's chart has us at upper lower class. That's even if we include income that isn't taxable income. We are barely lower class without H's tax free income. Love lcol unless I'm wanting to feel good on a national level.
This conversation always reminds me of my Richie Rich high school boyfriend in the 90s who lived in a mansion (with a turret!), had two doctors for parents (one only worked part-time), and a HHI of approximately $600k (in the 90s!). He insisted that his family was "upper middle class."
Apparently rich people are allergic to the term "upper class."
I think it's easier for me to recognize that we are upper-middle because I grew up pretty poor and the difference is obvious.
If you grew up middle/upper-middle, it's harder to see how many "extras" you actually have, because to you they are a given. (Like paying for preschool or having your kids involved in sports or music lessons). If you are doing the same/worse than your parents, I guess it's harder to see that you are still doing better than "middle."
This! I know I take things for granted, because I grew up in a middle class family. But I've heard enough from my mom to admit that I am middle class, or higher. I've seen the small house she lived in, and the outhouse she used when she was a kid. Heard stories about using rain water for baths, and how she didn't always get to take one. Actually cutting the turkey's head off for Thanksgiving dinner, and how the turkey would still move around afterward. And now I've heard from my FIL who grew up picking weeds out of the yard to feed himself and his siblings, and killing squirrels for dinner.
I'm in the middle-mid-section of middle class. I hope to move to the upper-mid-section of middle class in a few years, and possibly upper middle class by mid-40s. Never above that though. I wouldn't want to be considered upper class.
I know I'm not middle class based on my income...but I live in a HCOL area...but I feel like I live a pretty middle class lifestyle...maybe I am just fooling myself. But I think I am relatively responsible debt-wise, which makes me able to use my income for fun stuff.
Though I am currently not saving, because I have a YOLO attitude right now. I'm getting divorced, I should get to do whatever I want, lol.
I always feel poor by comparison on Internet forums but rich in real life. Not like Kardashian rich but I got to go to college, we have two vehicles that I don't cross my fingers when I start them up, I don't have to plan a trip to the grocery store around payday. We have a nice emergency fund. But I read MM and find myself thinking whaaaaat.
I think people are also going off of things you've said in the past and your general posts that don't match up to reality and being middle class.
I can't remember the exact comment, but you basically said that you couldn't/wouldn't go on a vacation under 5k because it wouldn't create lasting memories for you.
It's comments like those that make people realize you don't fall in the middle class, at all, which are then brought in to every such debate about wealth.
Actually, the magic vacation # is $10,000. 5k could cover a long weekend. There are also no hairstylists in NY who charge less than $400 and a simple dinner for 2 costs at least $100. You know, despite the fact that the high end of middle income is $91,000.
Post by gretchenindisguise on Sept 15, 2014 14:53:21 GMT -5
I only recently started feeling not middle class anymore, and more upper middle. Part of it is that I was raised upper middle, I know what that looks like - and compared to where my parents were, we aren't there yet. But within the past year or so I think we're getting much closer and within the past week I'm feeling there
Once H finishes post doc we'll hopefully be solidly upper middle.
eta: although I suppose the fact that we were able to survive with the house in the middle no matter how ugly that was in reality suggests we've been upper middle the whole time.
I don't understand, why do they NOT want to say they're upper class. I'M UPPER CLASS, I'll admit it, and the government says I'm 'rich'. Now, there is a huge difference between making it into upper class and being OMG rich. I can't do whatever the hell I want, but I am able to recognize that I do lead a privileged life.
Because people want to seem modest, and yet at the same time want you to assume they are wealthy beyond your possible imaginings.
I also feel like a lot of the tone-deaf posts about economics and the poor are meant to convey the message that, by not understanding and/or deliberately brushing off the plight of the working poor, they have obviously never been poor. And they want you to know that. "I am middle class, even though I make $265k, the struggle is real, y'all" is another way of saying, "I have never been poor and cannot even fathom what that is like, such is my massive wealth and privilege. Aren't you jealous?"
I suppose I've never given these tone-deaf people enough credit, then. If you are an educated adult and seemingly wholly unaware of what real poverty looks and feels like -- so much so that you can be like, "Oh, shit, I'm barely making ends meet after my VHCOL mortgage and 2 kids in daycare!" -- I just assume you're an insensitive dumbass who isn't worth conversation. I never considered that they could be intentionally conveying something. lol
I don't understand, why do they NOT want to say they're upper class. I'M UPPER CLASS, I'll admit it, and the government says I'm 'rich'. Now, there is a huge difference between making it into upper class and being OMG rich. I can't do whatever the hell I want, but I am able to recognize that I do lead a privileged life.
That link said that I am upper class for my county.
I totally sent it to H with the subject line "Guess who is a rich bitch!"
I think it's easier for me to recognize that we are upper-middle because I grew up pretty poor and the difference is obvious.
If you grew up middle/upper-middle, it's harder to see how many "extras" you actually have, because to you they are a given. (Like paying for preschool or having your kids involved in sports or music lessons). If you are doing the same/worse than your parents, I guess it's harder to see that you are still doing better than "middle."
I agree with this. Coming from a poor family, I can see that my family is definitely upper-middle class, not "middle class."
Lol, not really. I'm tired, it's hard being upper class.
Supervising maids doing the cleaning & laundry is TIRING. And then worrying about what the cook is going to make? STRESSFUL!! It's enough to drive a person to drink.