Won't happen regarding the pound. If they separate, they will have about a year to either join the EU & take on the Euro or they will have to get another currency. They can't pull out of the UK and expect to still have all the "perks".
Could they keep the Scottish pound?
It's all part of the same system - the British pound is the 'backer' of the Scottish one, so no.
H is worried that a vote for independence will give Barcelona/Catalunaseparatists more wind in their sail, even though the situations are so very different.
the Spanish PM hinted that Spain would block ascension into the EU for an independent Scotland yesterday for this very reason. But this comes after weeks of the foreign minister saying they wouldn't so who knows.
what's the thought process behind Spain making it difficult for an independent Scotland to join the EU?
Spain has some, er, issues with several groups of its people wanting independence. They are reluctant to recognize newly-independent countries as a result since Catalonians, etc. will argue about why Madrid recognizes new X country but won't let Catalonia secede without a big fight. And since Spain has decent clout within the EU, they'll want to make it tough for new countries to join.
It's not just decent clout. Adding a member state requires unanimity among existing member states. They hold all of the power here.
Here is what I want to know: if the Union flag has to change, does that mean Australia and NZ need to change their flags as well? A white corner to an otherwise blue flag could look...interesting.
Also, look for Spain to give an independent Scotland an incredibly hard time in joining the EU. Hell, I'm curious to see if they'll even recognize Scotland's independence.
And maybe Belgium will finally fall apart. Not "finally" in that I wanted it to separate, just that I'm amazed that country lasted this long.
Can you tell I'm so dang curious about the global consequences of all this? Even if it's defeated, we will see more referendums (plural sp?) elsewhere.
I actually think Scotland would have benefited from a "compromis à la belge" had London allowed the devo max option.
IMO, had the option been on the table, it would have been a landslide. Which is exactly why they didn't offer it and now risk losing Scotland altogether.
The fact that a yes vote seems to go hand in hand with a stronger integration into the EU is a positive in my view, but I know that's probably an unpopular opinion.
I'm team Independent Scotland. Don't even care. Yes, there are a million reasons why this will be worse for them as a whole. But since when has a paternalistic, 'you're gonna miss me when I'm gone' attitude been an excuse for being the shitty partner in an unwanted relationship?
I feel like people are saying, "Well, you guys have been married for like thirty years. So what if he beat you and raped you on and off the first 15 or so? He's been really really nice to you the last ten. Do you want to lose your fancy house and your pretty clothes?"
I know it's not the same thing, I promise. But uhm, GIVE US US FREE!!!
I have an admittedly small knowledge on this, but I don't think it will go too badly for them. Their resources alone they can use as a bartering chip with the UK. They're not a struggling 3rd world nation.
H is worried that a vote for independence will give Barcelona/Catalunaseparatists more wind in their sail, even though the situations are so very different.
Also Flanders breaking away from Wallonia and splitting Belgium into two countries. Flanders has long been pissed that the government has always favored the French language and culture, while Flanders, the Dutch region, is really the economic support of the country.
Also, look for Spain to give an independent Scotland an incredibly hard time in joining the EU. Hell, I'm curious to see if they'll even recognize Scotland's independence.
And maybe Belgium will finally fall apart. Not "finally" in that I wanted it to separate, just that I'm amazed that country lasted this long.
Can you tell I'm so dang curious about the global consequences of all this? Even if it's defeated, we will see more referendums (plural sp?) elsewhere.
what's the thought process behind Spain making it difficult for an independent Scotland to join the EU?
One major "benefit" of Scottish independence that the separatists have been playing up is that Scotland will be able to become a player on the world stage and control its own destiny in terms of foreign policy. So Scotland can get a seat in the UN rather than only having 1 representative for the whole of the UK (although the UK is one of the more powerful nations in the UN and Scotland won't be), they'll be an independent member of the EU, an independent member of NATO, etc.
So if Spain fights their inclusion, making it hard to get recognition, that will be a signal to others that this major "benefit" of independence isn't exactly a walk in the park.
Now, many nations would likely recognize and independent Scotland. Even the rest of the UK will recognize their existence. Most democracies recognize the right of a nation to self-determination (that might even be in the Geneva Convention). But to what extent that matters and what role Scotland will play... I tend to think the separatists talk it up more than what will actually come to pass.
Post by Velar Fricative on Sept 18, 2014 9:40:53 GMT -5
I'm just overall a pro-self-determination kind of gal. You peeps want your own country? Go ahead! Yes, that's overly simplistic but whatever.
Though admittedly, that might make Africa a damn mess geopolitically. Imagine all those new world capitals we have to memorize. And I feel like the Balkans are all like, "Every man/woman/child becomes his/her own country!" and that's not so great either. But I don't think Scotland as an independent nation would become a hot mess. The transition will be tricky, yes, but I have faith in the place that gave the world curling.
Here is what I want to know: if the Union flag has to change, does that mean Australia and NZ need to change their flags as well? A white corner to an otherwise blue flag could look...interesting.
Well, NZ is already thinking about changing their flag to a black standard with a silver fern. Like the All Blacks logo.
Additionally, I was listening to NPR and they said that all the votes are counted by hand. They won't know until very early Friday morning local time, which will be something like late tonight.
"With 4,285,323 people — 97% of the electorate — registered to vote, a historically high turnout is expected.
"Votes will be cast at 2,608 polling places across the country until 22:00 on Thursday. The result is expected early on Friday morning."
Additionally, I was listening to NPR and they said that all the votes are counted by hand. They won't know until very early Friday morning local time, which will be something like late tonight.
"With 4,285,323 people — 97% of the electorate — registered to vote, a historically high turnout is expected.
"Votes will be cast at 2,608 polling places across the country until 22:00 on Thursday. The result is expected early on Friday morning."
I'm just overall a pro-self-determination kind of gal. You peeps want your own country? Go ahead! Yes, that's overly simplistic but whatever.
Though admittedly, that might make Africa a damn mess geopolitically. Imagine all those new world capitals we have to memorize. And I feel like the Balkans are all like, "Every man/woman/child becomes his/her own country!" and that's not so great either. But I don't think Scotland as an independent nation would become a hot mess. The transition will be tricky, yes, but I have faith in the place that gave the world curling.
This is pretty much where I sit, particularly with areas that were forcefully integrated, cobbled together by outside forces, or overran and subsequently pillaged and exploited. I don't think Texas for instance, who despite their claiming otherwise, brought their asses in here themselves gets to declare they wish to be free. But I do think that a country with a looooooooooooong history of wanting their independence should get to have it if they so wish.
Post by mominatrix on Sept 18, 2014 10:47:41 GMT -5
with their North Sea oil, an independent Scotland would be an economic powerhouse. It's not some backwater country trying to break away; it would be in perfectly fine economic stead.
Post by Velar Fricative on Sept 18, 2014 10:49:53 GMT -5
I was going to order a world map wall decal and now I feel like I need to wait until the referendum results and hope that if they vote Yes, world map wall decal companies update their maps accordingly. I don't want to have to resort to drawing a line between Scotland and England with a Sharpie.
Wouldn't the UK have to change its name if Scotland breaks away? Since the "united kingdom" being referenced in the name is the union between Scotland and the English kingdom.
The Flag Institute has some ideas about what could happen to the flags of the UK and Australia if Scotland becomes independent: www.flaginstitute.org/wp/
ETA: In other Scottish news, another vote has taken place:
ST. ANDREWS, Scotland (AP) -- Royal & Ancient Golf Club votes to admit women members.
Wouldn't the UK have to change its name if Scotland breaks away? Since the "united kingdom" being referenced in the name is the union between Scotland and the English kingdom.
The Flag Institute has some ideas about what could happen to the flags of the UK and Australia if Scotland becomes independent: www.flaginstitute.org/wp/
I always thought that the UK encompassed England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Should Scotland break off, there will still be a UK no ?!?
Wouldn't the UK have to change its name if Scotland breaks away? Since the "united kingdom" being referenced in the name is the union between Scotland and the English kingdom.
The Flag Institute has some ideas about what could happen to the flags of the UK and Australia if Scotland becomes independent: www.flaginstitute.org/wp/
ETA: In other Scottish news, another vote has taken place:
ST. ANDREWS, Scotland (AP) -- Royal & Ancient Golf Club votes to admit women members.
The UK actually consists of England Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland.
Wouldn't the UK have to change its name if Scotland breaks away? Since the "united kingdom" being referenced in the name is the union between Scotland and the English kingdom.
The Flag Institute has some ideas about what could happen to the flags of the UK and Australia if Scotland becomes independent: www.flaginstitute.org/wp/
ETA: In other Scottish news, another vote has taken place:
ST. ANDREWS, Scotland (AP) -- Royal & Ancient Golf Club votes to admit women members.
No on the name. It is the United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales. Even if Scotland drops off the truncated name would still be the United Kingdom.
Post by Velar Fricative on Sept 18, 2014 12:47:44 GMT -5
It's going to be a weird union though. England held most of the UK's population before but now they're going to be a huge supermajority and Northern Irish and Welsh people are probably going to be itching for some freedom. And then there's all the recent history in Northern Ireland, where many (most?) of the Protestants are of Scottish origin. Iiiiiiiinteresting.