As for the vacation is just as educational as school argument, I think it will depend on your view on what education is. If your goal is school and what kids learn in school, than a vacation is not going to be the same or as beneficial. School has a specific routine, method for learning, and curricula. But school is not necessary for an education. There are many things that kids learn outside of school that are just as important and everything that is taught in a school can be learned outside of it, too.
I think it all also depends on how you parent and what your vacations are like. Everything is an opportunity for learning. A vacation to Disney could be extremely educational if you approach it that way. I'm assuming that most people don't, though, because vacation is a time when you don't want to do work. But that doesn't mean that kids can't learn something there - something equally as valuable as a structured math lesson in a classroom setting.
The school doesn't own your kids. Your family life comes first. You don't owe the school your kids' time and if a vacation is what your family needs, why wouldn't you take the opportunity to spend the time together??
One of my dreams is to one day be able to pull our kid(s) out of school for a year and travel around the world, using some sort of a home-school program. We aren't religious and neither of us are teachers. Plus we have no interest in long-term home schooling, so I have no idea what sort of programs are out there for people like us. But I read a book called "A Year Off" in which parents did just that, so I know it's possible.
Our son is just 18-months, though, so we have some time to think about it, as well as to save up.
What state are you in? Your ability to do this will depend on your state's homeschool regulations.
Currently we live in Massachusetts, but we have lived in multiple states and several different countries between the two of us so by the time we would do something like this, it's anybody's guess where we might be.
Regardless, more and more people are doing this and I don't think there are currently any legal issues that would complicate it. Obviously we would cross our Ts and dot our Is if and when the time comes.
ETA - We are also pro-gap-year. Regardless of whether or not this panned out for logistical or financial reasons, we plan on encouraging our children to take a year off after high school to travel. Their choice ultimately, but we're big believers in the education you can gain from traveling extensively.
I'd do so with zero reservations. I probably wouldn't do weeks at a time but I don't see a problem with adding days to a long weekend for the exact same reason as origami. Since winter and summer breaks will be claimed by trips to the US, I don't want M to spend three years living in Hong Kong and never once set foot in mainland China. Or Zambia and never see the Great Migration or Victoria Falls.
My view is shaped by the fact that I was pulled for trips as a kid and still managed to graduate at the top of my class. I don't remember random days of school from that time period, bit I do remember the trips.
ETA: there are a lot of things you can learn about in a classroom. Seeing them in person is better. I'm not going to let opportunities pass by because It's a school day.
What state are you in? Your ability to do this will depend on your state's homeschool regulations.
Why would it matter what the state regulations are if they are traveling out of the country?
I'm assuming that if they still have a legal residence somewhere in the states, they would be required to notify of their intent to homeschool in that state, even if they are outside of the country. It's the same thing as having a kid int he public schools and taking a vacation outside of the country for a month. Just because you're traveling outside of the country, it doesn't mean you're not subject to the truancy laws within the school district.
Now, if you didn't have a legal residence in the US, I'm not sure there is anything they could do. But I think it would create a headache when you return to the US and re-enroll in public school.
What state are you in? Your ability to do this will depend on your state's homeschool regulations.
Why would it matter what the state regulations are if they are traveling out of the country?
Generally people still have a "home" address unless they are for real nomadic. Like how most people still used their parent's address as their permanent address while in college. I don't know how many states do what - but (some/most/all?) require homeschoolers to register as such, fill out paperwork on their curriculum, and in some way prove that they actually are going to educate their child and not just read them a religious text and then put them to work on the farm. I think some go so far as to require set schedules and that the kid still do state testing? This might be what AW is referring to.
I think you'd need to follow your state's rules for a year long absence so your kid could get credit for the year and be in the appropriate grade when you returned.
Also...I missed a week twice in high school for school sponsored trips. Once was a trip to Europe that was actually educational and the other was a cruise with the honor society that absolutely was not.
And people in band missed a week every year for a big competition trip. I missed half days here and there for art field trips, for quiz bowl events. The swim team missed an assload of time the year they made states. So yeah, tell me again how school is sacrosanct.
i don't see how school trips are related.
I don't mind when students miss for trips. There are many that are situation and make sense. But I think the comparisons people make in this thread are hilarious. Taking your kids to Disney or to a football game is not the same as going on a trip to see a battlefield or the ruins in Athens.
Also...I missed a week twice in high school for school sponsored trips. Once was a trip to Europe that was actually educational and the other was a cruise with the honor society that absolutely was not.
And people in band missed a week every year for a big competition trip. I missed half days here and there for art field trips, for quiz bowl events. The swim team missed an assload of time the year they made states. So yeah, tell me again how school is sacrosanct.
i don't see how school trips are related.
I don't see how they're different. You're still missing your regular school work for the sake of doing something else. Just because it was a couple of teachers who took me on a cruise to Cozumel doesn't somehow make it educational.
I don't see how they're different. You're still missing your regular school work for the sake of doing something else. Just because it was a couple of teachers who took me on a cruise to Cozumel doesn't somehow make it educational.
Well the cruise one baffles me. What a weird thing for a school to do. At least IMO.
ETA: But in general, the comparisons in this thread are cracking me up. Everyone's talking about very different things.
Post by EloiseWeenie on Sept 18, 2014 8:30:31 GMT -5
I said yes, but we never go on vacations. I don't think Disney is educational, but I would take the kids out of school for a Disney trip. I don't think a week every few years is a huge deal if your kid isn't struggling. Honestly, I really want our county to move to year round school, so we could go on vacation when it's not sweltering/holiday where we're with extended family, and the kids won't miss school.
I missed 1.5 weeks my senior year to go to Paris (my 2nd grade teacher took a group of her old students). It counted as an educational trip, and it was awesome (and educational).
Post by irishbride2 on Sept 18, 2014 8:34:32 GMT -5
I would love year round school, for selfish and educational reasons.
Or at least a modified version. I liked my schedule in the UK. We had about 6 weeks for summer, but then the other breaks during the year were longer (like 3 weeks in the spring and 3 or 4 in the winter, I think).
The teachers here who get multiple personal days - are those paid days or days you can take unpaid? We get one personal day. Not rolled over. Until last year we had to give a reason for it and it had to fit a list of acceptable reasons (actually, as an admin I still have to give a reason, only the teachers negotiated for it to be 'open').
You can ask for unpaid time and it is generally granted though.
We have 5 days (they don't roll over) that we can take for any reason. I used 4 last year to do an Ironman, and 2 in 2011 to run Boston. They are paid.
They moved 1 elementary school in my county to year round 2 years ago, and I keep hoping they'll add more (especially Hunter's school).
It's apparently on the agenda as a possibility in our district. I have a few friends that teach at my old high school and they went to year round last year and they love it.
And people in band missed a week every year for a big competition trip. I missed half days here and there for art field trips, for quiz bowl events. The swim team missed an assload of time the year they made states. So yeah, tell me again how school is sacrosanct.
This is actually why I wouldn't do it in middle school or high school.
OMG. Missing 2 days for a band trip was fun but is had SO MUCH work to make up. It was a serious pain. Missing an entire week would have made me lose my mind trying to catch up.
I said yes, but we never go on vacations. I don't think Disney is educational, but I would take the kids out of school for a Disney trip. I don't think a week every few years is a huge deal if your kid isn't struggling. Honestly, I really want our county to move to year round school, so we could go on vacation when it's not sweltering/holiday where we're with extended family, and the kids won't miss school.
I missed 1.5 weeks my senior year to go to Paris (my 2nd grade teacher took a group of her old students). It counted as an educational trip, and it was awesome (and educational).
Well, it can be. When we took our kids I signed them up for the youth educational series workshops...granted, it was mostly to get cheaper tickets, but the stuff they learned, they are still talking about almost two years later.
They moved 1 elementary school in my county to year round 2 years ago, and I keep hoping they'll add more (especially Hunter's school).
It's apparently on the agenda as a possibility in our district. I have a few friends that teach at my old high school and they went to year round last year and they love it.
When I was in elementary school, we had so many kids in my school that they had to create four different tracks. Two of those tracks were year-round and in retrospect, the schedule made so much more sense.
Taking your kids to Disney or to a football game is not the same as going on a trip to see a battlefield or the ruins in Athens.
No, they aren't the same. But both can be educational in different ways. A person could go to a battlefield and get little out of the experience other than the memorization of some trivia they may never use in their life. That same person could go to Disney and get a ton out of the experience. An education isn't just about memorizing facts about historical or famous places and then taking tests to demonstrate that knowledge. It's about experiencing new things, building character, and learning from the world around you. And most importantly, what a child gets out of a trip is going to depend on the adults that are walking them through it. An invested parent could make a week-long trip to a beach house where you never leave the shore more educational than a week in Europe visiting famous places.
Taking your kids to Disney or to a football game is not the same as going on a trip to see a battlefield or the ruins in Athens.
No, they aren't the same. But both can be educational in different ways. One could go to a battlefield and get little out of the experience but than the memorization of some trivia they may never use in their life. That same person could go to Disney and get a ton out of the experience. An education isn't just about memorizing facts about historical or famous places and then taking tests to demonstrate that knowledge. It's about experiencing new things, building character, and learning from the world around you. And most importantly, what a child gets out of a trip is going to depend on the adults that are walking them through it. An invested parent could make a week-long trip to a beach house where you never leave the shore more educational than a week in Europe visiting famous places.
It is?!?!?! Please tell me more about what education is. I know nothing about this.
Sorry I'm being snarky but I'm getting annoyed. Yet again let me say that I don't mind (in most cases ) if parents pull their kids for trips. I really don't. But this thread is all over the place with people agreeing or disagreeing while talking about very different things.
eta: don't you homeschool? If so, why does any of this matter to you? You've already made the decision that the classroom is irrelevant.
And people in band missed a week every year for a big competition trip. I missed half days here and there for art field trips, for quiz bowl events. The swim team missed an assload of time the year they made states. So yeah, tell me again how school is sacrosanct.
This is actually why I wouldn't do it in middle school or high school.
OMG. Missing 2 days for a band trip was fun but is had SO MUCH work to make up. It was a serious pain. Missing an entire week would have made me lose my mind trying to catch up.
But I also went to a crazy large, competitive HS.
Interesting. I don't remember the catchup from the Europe trip being too too onerous, but it was a pain in the ass. It felt like a lot of busy work. The cruise was a special case since it was most of the honor society, so all of my classmates for all of my hard classes were on the trip with me. My AP calc and physics teachers just shut down for a week and then we played catchup all together. I think the physics teacher was one of the chaperones? My school was medium-smallish and while good, not like super competitive or anything.
I think saying how much one values education is somehow directly connected with how willing they are to take their kids out of school is sort of silly. I think you can still place high value on something while still having balance in other areas of life.
And people in band missed a week every year for a big competition trip. I missed half days here and there for art field trips, for quiz bowl events. The swim team missed an assload of time the year they made states. So yeah, tell me again how school is sacrosanct.
This is actually why I wouldn't do it in middle school or high school.
OMG. Missing 2 days for a band trip was fun but is had SO MUCH work to make up. It was a serious pain. Missing an entire week would have made me lose my mind trying to catch up.
But I also went to a crazy large, competitive HS.
This was my experience. Missing school for whatever reason resulted in a massive backlog of work that was incredibly stressful and draining. I didn't attend a large school, but my course load tilted heavily toward AP and Honors, and my teachers didn't give me a break when I had to miss for any reason.
Why would it matter what the state regulations are if they are traveling out of the country?
I'm assuming that if they still have a legal residence somewhere in the states, they would be required to notify of their intent to homeschool in that state, even if they are outside of the country. It's the same thing as having a kid int he public schools and taking a vacation outside of the country for a month. Just because you're traveling outside of the country, it doesn't mean you're not subject to the truancy laws within the school district.
Now, if you didn't have a legal residence in the US, I'm not sure there is anything they could do. But I think it would create a headache when you return to the US and re-enroll in public school.
How do people unschool then? Or educate their kids in another country and then return to the US? I just think there must be ways around this.
Edit: I see for unschooling it also varies by state and some states require testing even with it. www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp?
This is actually why I wouldn't do it in middle school or high school.
OMG. Missing 2 days for a band trip was fun but is had SO MUCH work to make up. It was a serious pain. Missing an entire week would have made me lose my mind trying to catch up.
But I also went to a crazy large, competitive HS.
Interesting. I don't remember the catchup from the Europe trip being too too onerous, but it was a pain in the ass. It felt like a lot of busy work. The cruise was a special case since it was most of the honor society, so all of my classmates for all of my hard classes were on the trip with me. My AP calc and physics teachers just shut down for a week and then we played catchup all together. I think the physics teacher was one of the chaperones? My school was medium-smallish and while good, not like super competitive or anything.
But my school was so big that the teachers really couldn't structure classes around things.
The band trip was one week, the orchestra trip another, the choir trip another. The volleyball team might have to travel for a tournament. The debate team had the state championships. Blah blah blah. But then, I thought HS was harder than college, so YMMV.
No, they aren't the same. But both can be educational in different ways. One could go to a battlefield and get little out of the experience but than the memorization of some trivia they may never use in their life. That same person could go to Disney and get a ton out of the experience. An education isn't just about memorizing facts about historical or famous places and then taking tests to demonstrate that knowledge. It's about experiencing new things, building character, and learning from the world around you. And most importantly, what a child gets out of a trip is going to depend on the adults that are walking them through it. An invested parent could make a week-long trip to a beach house where you never leave the shore more educational than a week in Europe visiting famous places.
It is?!?!?! Please tell me more about what education is. I know nothing about this.
Sorry I'm being snarky but I'm getting annoyed. Yet again let me say that I don't mind (in most cases ) if parents pull their kids for trips. I really don't. But this thread is all over the place with people agreeing or disagreeing while talking about very different things.
eta: don't you homeschool? If so, why does any of this matter to you? You've already made the decision that the classroom is irrelevant.
Why does it matter to me? Because unfortunately I have to spend a lot of my time defending my decision to make the classroom irrelevant. Because I have to spend my energy and money to defend my decision to make it irrelevant and the government forces me to jump through all sorts of hoops and waste my time filling out all sorts of paperwork and have my children assessed by their methods in order to prove that it is irrelevant.
I have a differing educational philosophy and I think it's interesting to discuss. I didn't realize you have to have a kid in the public schools or be a teacher in one in order to have an opinion about education. I like the topic and want to discuss it.
And, not to be snarky, but if you do know what education is, then I'm confused why you wouldn't understand how a family vacation could be educational. The traditional schools in which you teach represent only one form of education. There are many ways for kids to learn things that are just as effective as a classroom experience - a family vacation to Disney perhaps being part of one of them.
This is actually why I wouldn't do it in middle school or high school.
OMG. Missing 2 days for a band trip was fun but is had SO MUCH work to make up. It was a serious pain. Missing an entire week would have made me lose my mind trying to catch up.
But I also went to a crazy large, competitive HS.
This was my experience. Missing school for whatever reason resulted in a massive backlog of work that was incredibly stressful and draining. I didn't attend a large school, but my course load tilted heavily toward AP and Honors, and my teachers didn't give me a break when I had to miss for any reason.
I think the fact that I skipped homework whenever I felt like it as long as I was confident it wouldn't dip me below a B is a big part of the reason why I don't remember stressing about this...