This may start a fight but...it seems like there's almost an air of entitlement about pulling your kids out for a long time for vacations. Like, the rules/calendar/schedule doesn't apply to your kid and too bad if the teacher wastes time having to teach shit twice when your kids get back. A day or two, fine. A week? For Disney? Why?
There is a certain level of privilege here - because I'm assuming in my "sure I'd pull my kid out" hypothetical that my kid is like I was when it comes to school work and the teacher wont' have to do a damn thing because she'll catch up on her own. and I know that for most subjects I have the tools to help her catch up if she needs it. And for the subjects where I'm weak (history, foreign languages) I can find the answers or know people who can help.
I wouldn't really expect any special accommodations beyond not sending a truant officer after me. For example - There's no way I'd pull my kid for a vacation when they have a test scheduled. That crosses the line for me.
I think the extant to which this starts to whiff of entitlement probably depends on the specifics of the situation and what the school requires for a voluntary absence like that.
Yep, pretty much this. I wouldn't expect the teacher to do anything beyond just giving them the work they missed or pointing them in the direction of the reading/whatever they missed.
But honestly, I've stated before I think the rules are bullshit in our district. They are incredibly strict, probably in an effort to keep people from abusing them or making people send their kids to school and not just being lazy assholes. I think they are geared towards the lowest common denominator (and I'm not talking about kids who struggle, I'm talking about parents who don't place their child's education high on their priority list), and that's not me. I'm not going to have my kid out of school every week, school is important, and my kid will make up the work without me or them expecting the teacher to teach the material twice. Our district actually states specifically for unexcused absences (vacation) that the teachers don't have to let the kids make up the work. It's up to them completely. I think it's ridiculous, but it is what it is, and I'm fine with accepting those consequences in certain situations. My understanding is most of the teachers - esp in the younger grades - are fine with giving you the missed work, but they don't have to.
So I don't feel like I'm acting entitled to anything, other than making choices for my kids, which I do believe I absolutely am entitled to do. I don't know what his current teacher will do about his 3 day absence coming up, but if she says he has to take a zero on everything he misses, he has to take a zero. I will think it's dumb as hell, but ultimately it's up to her. Yeah, it chaps my ass that the district thinks that I am incapable of making the right decision for my kids, so they put these policies in place to penalize kids' grades to try and force a certain behavior. I think super strict attendance policies like this are utterly ridiculous. School is important, but I am the parent and I strongly dislike policies that encroach on what I view as my space as a parent. To a degree, I understand that leaving it up to the teacher keeps them from being overwhelmed with work requests or having to deal with this, as well as giving them the judgment/discretion to base their decision on whether it's a kid who makes up the work in the right way vs. a kid/family taking advantage. However, it's not after a certain number of absences, it's any absence that isn't sickness/with a doctor's note. It is automatically an unexcused absence, and even if it is just one day, or a half day, the teacher can give the kid a zero.
10 personal days?!?! On top of all the other days we get. I think in some cases I get the argument that teachers get so much time off.
We get three personal days, but they are actually "exceptional days." They are for special circumstances that fit certain criteria. Then we have sick days. The expectation is that we do not take off unless we HAVE too since we have so many other breaks.
The race example is interesting. I know one of my colleagues tried to take a day for a race and was told no.
I will say though, on a positive note, that my school is really amazing about profession development (they pay for us to travel to conferences of our choice). So most of us miss at least a week a year for PD. So if we missed that week, plus two weeks of personal days, plus a few sick days, the kids would have subs most of the year! So I get it.
I missed this...this is not the case for us. There isn't any money for that. I don't know a single teacher who uses all of their days, and most of them have this HUGE buildup of sick leave from days being rolled over. You know as well as I do that good teachers know the impact of being gone. And they also know how to lessen that impact. For example, if I'm gone a full week, I'm only missing three class periods, which means I can do my lesson planning for that time to be filled by essay drafting and revisions, or film analysis, or other things that aren't driven by me. I can also get a sub who knows what they're doing to be there (much like I've done in the past with maternity leave).
I think this issue, like everything else is the world, is so dependent on the context of where you live and what district you're in and a slew of other variables that make it difficult to say "yes, it's fine" or "hell, no" to everyone, kwim?
This is actually why I wouldn't do it in middle school or high school.
OMG. Missing 2 days for a band trip was fun but is had SO MUCH work to make up. It was a serious pain. Missing an entire week would have made me lose my mind trying to catch up.
But I also went to a crazy large, competitive HS.
This was my experience. Missing school for whatever reason resulted in a massive backlog of work that was incredibly stressful and draining. I didn't attend a large school, but my course load tilted heavily toward AP and Honors, and my teachers didn't give me a break when I had to miss for any reason.
Well in this case I will call it preparation for real life!
One of my dreams is to one day be able to pull our kid(s) out of school for a year and travel around the world, using some sort of a home-school program. We aren't religious and neither of us are teachers. Plus we have no interest in long-term home schooling, so I have no idea what sort of programs are out there for people like us. But I read a book called "A Year Off" in which parents did just that, so I know it's possible.
Our son is just 18-months, though, so we have some time to think about it, as well as to save up.
I haven't read all the responses, but you can coordinate with your district to do this. My dad took me to Central Europe with him for 6 months when I was in the 7th grade. The school loaned us all the text books and lesson plans for the year so I could study while I was gone. Standardized testing was barely a thing then aside from the ITBS, but I imagine now the child would just have to make up those tests when they got back.
I will say that, even though I was able to advance to the 8th grade with no question or aptitude testing, my math skills never recovered. I missed some really fundamental stuff that year. The literature and history (and even science because I actually read my science book) were no issue, but I was a year behind my classmates in math all the way through college.
Post by EllieArroway on Sept 18, 2014 13:37:54 GMT -5
Maybe it is an entitlement thing, but I am basing my reaction on how it was when I was in school. I never once had perfect attendance. Ever. I had health issues plus my mom pulled us out for vacations or random days here and there every year. One year I missed almost as many days as I attended (long hospitalization, I taught myself/did my homework from the hospital). Sometimes my teachers let me make up the work, sometimes they gave me the assignments in advance to work on while I was gone, and sometimes I just took zeros.
Despite all of that I was a straight A student. Always top of my class, graduated valedictorian. Missing school did not hurt me. And there were a LOT of weeks that I sat in school and learned nothing. So yeah, I believe that sometimes vacations can be more educational than school.
If my kids are the same I will have no reservations about pulling them from school for vacations. I value education, but I do not believe that school is the only or even necessarily the best way to gain an education.
This may start a fight but...it seems like there's almost an air of entitlement about pulling your kids out for a long time for vacations. Like, the rules/calendar/schedule doesn't apply to your kid and too bad if the teacher wastes time having to teach shit twice when your kids get back. A day or two, fine. A week? For Disney? Why?
The only privilege here that is bugging me is the implication that Disney isn't a once in a lifetime trip for some kids. People are saying "Well, Europe, that's one thing; Disney, that's another"
Well, for some kids and some families Disney is a one shot deal, saved up to afford for years, carefully planned when all 3 of your children are at an optimal age, and to go when there are few/no lines will make that one shot more enjoyable, and off season can be more affordable. Not everyone who goes to Disney goes yearly.
If I had lived about anywhere else in the county, I would have been pulled out of school for Disney. As it turns out, I grew up in a place that started school in mid-August, so we could get 5-6 weeks in before getting out for 3 weeks so children could be used as farm labor. It's the only trip on an airplane my family ever took, it's the only vacation that wasn't in Maine or NH. I am thankful for that vacation and thankful that my family didn't depend on me picking potatoes to supplement income.
Post by stephm0188 on Sept 18, 2014 17:22:41 GMT -5
I was nervous about telling my kid's teacher last year about our Disney trip because of all the super duper serious opinions people here have about pulling kids out of school.
Yeah, it was NBD. We told her we were going to Disney. She told us to be sure to get a Dole Whip and ride Splash Mountain once for her.
Haven't told this year's teacher yet, but I expect a similar reaction.
My school (HS) has a form students have to have filled out by teachers when they are going to have an extended absence (other than illness). We write in what we are covering and we sign off when the work is completed. The form then goes to an administrator.
I had one student who had the opportunity to visit family in Africa for three weeks. She made up everything within five days. I had another who never had the form filled out, yet extended her Christmas vacation. She then asked me when she could stay after so I can teach her what she missed. Sorry darling, make the effort and get the notes, assignments etc from someone, and I'm happy to answer questions. But recreate after school what we did for those days? Not happening.
No. DD gets one week for fall break, one week for spring break, and two weeks over the holidays. If we can't make any of those weeks work we would wait until summer break.
This may start a fight but...it seems like there's almost an air of entitlement about pulling your kids out for a long time for vacations. Like, the rules/calendar/schedule doesn't apply to your kid and too bad if the teacher wastes time having to teach shit twice when your kids get back. A day or two, fine. A week? For Disney? Why?
The only privilege here that is bugging me is the implication that Disney isn't a once in a lifetime trip for some kids. People are saying "Well, Europe, that's one thing; Disney, that's another"
Well, for some kids and some families Disney is a one shot deal, saved up to afford for years, carefully planned when all 3 of your children are at an optimal age, and to go when there are few/no lines will make that one shot more enjoyable, and off season can be more affordable. Not everyone who goes to Disney goes yearly.
If I had lived about anywhere else in the county, I would have been pulled out of school for Disney. As it turns out, I grew up in a place that started school in mid-August, so we could get 5-6 weeks in before getting out for 3 weeks so children could be used as farm labor. It's the only trip on an airplane my family ever took, it's the only vacation that wasn't in Maine or NH. I am thankful for that vacation and thankful that my family didn't depend on me picking potatoes to supplement income.
I actually think that's more that some people prioritize Disney while others don't. I've never been and there's a good chance that it will never be in the budget for me to take my kids. It's a very expensive trip and I do understand that people spend years saving for it and sometimes it's only affordable during the off season (if we go at all it will take us a long time to save for it). But I still see it as "only Disney" and not worth missing school for. It's just an amusement park. Given the choice of going during the school year or never going at all, we would never go at all.
I could see if we are in a district that allowed family travel and had an opportunity arise to take our children out of the country during the school year (thinking about the possibility of H having to travel for work and us tagging along meaning his expenses are covered) I might consider that type of once-in-a-lifetime trip. Even though I've never been to Disney and there's a chance it will never happen, I still don't think of it as a big, exciting thing.
I voted yes. I think it would depend on what was going on in school and how well they were doing. I wouldn't deliberately plan a vacation with the intent of taking them out of school, but if vacation overlapped a few days of school in session OR it was an opportunity just too good to pass up, then definitely.
Post by josieposy on Sept 18, 2014 19:00:36 GMT -5
Look if I'm gonna pull my kids out of school for a vacation, it won't be for Disney. But again, we never go on a vacation that doesn't involve some family thing or other. This was my life growing up as well. The one vacation we planned to go somewhere no family lived, my dad ended up getting deployed. That stuck with me.
If i get the chance to take my kids somewhere awesome, it's gonna happen despite the calendar.