Gotcha. I'm totally clueless on immigration stuff so would this affect your ability to move there at all? Or just what it would be like living there?
I could still move there. Their immigration would likely become a bit easier. The problems are twofold. FI has spent about 9 years in the UK all with the goal of becoming a British citizen. He does not want Scottish citizenship. As well, depending on how the industry/business works, banks could end up moving their operations to England. If the jobs go he will have to follow them.
Realistically, the worst case scenario for me is that we move to London. I really don't want to though (no offense London ladies). It's not a city I want to live in. I have no friends there. It's big and expensive and I have spent the last 3.5 years counting the moments until I get to move back to Edinburgh.
Not the end of the world, but I would be really upset.
We don't take offence. I see the appeal of Edinburgh. But you would make amazing friends here in London (hint, hint). I hope for your sake and many others that it goes 'no'.
Timing sucks as I am meant to send a bunch of money back to the States for my student loans and, of course, the pound is falling.
I could still move there. Their immigration would likely become a bit easier. The problems are twofold. FI has spent about 9 years in the UK all with the goal of becoming a British citizen. He does not want Scottish citizenship. As well, depending on how the industry/business works, banks could end up moving their operations to England. If the jobs go he will have to follow them.
Realistically, the worst case scenario for me is that we move to London. I really don't want to though (no offense London ladies). It's not a city I want to live in. I have no friends there. It's big and expensive and I have spent the last 3.5 years counting the moments until I get to move back to Edinburgh.
Not the end of the world, but I would be really upset.
We don't take offence. I see the appeal of Edinburgh. But you would make amazing friends here in London (hint, hint). I hope for your sake and many others that it goes 'no'.
Timing sucks as I am meant to send a bunch of money back to the States for my student loans and, of course, the pound is falling.
I don't know a ton about this personally, but my BF is British (from England) and hopes it doesn't go through. I think he's more or less concerned because a lot of the liberal vote (do they call it labor party?) comes from Scotland so it could have a negative impact on England (for those that aren't conservative, at least). He thinks financially losing Scotland isn't going to be as big of an impact as the Scots seem to imply, since they only hold something like 10% of the UK's wealth.
I've been teasing him he's not going to be British anymore if Great Britain is no longer a thing. I do wonder what that will mean for Great Britain/the UK if it's no longer a United Kingdom? Will they change the name? I guess that's really a minor detail, lol.
I don't know a ton about this personally, but my BF is British (from England) and hopes it doesn't go through. I think he's more or less concerned because a lot of the liberal vote (do they call it labor party?) comes from Scotland so it could have a negative impact on England (for those that aren't conservative, at least). He thinks financially losing Scotland isn't going to be as big of an impact as the Scots seem to imply, since they only hold something like 10% of the UK's wealth.
I've been teasing him he's not going to be British anymore if Great Britain is no longer a thing. I do wonder what that will mean for Great Britain/the UK if it's no longer a United Kingdom? Will they change the name? I guess that's really a minor detail, lol.
They still have Wales and N. Ireland.
I do wonder what it means for things like the sovereign standard. Do they lose the lion? What about the union jack? It is the st. andrew's cross and st. george's cross.. uh.
I don't know a ton about this personally, but my BF is British (from England) and hopes it doesn't go through. I think he's more or less concerned because a lot of the liberal vote (do they call it labor party?) comes from Scotland so it could have a negative impact on England (for those that aren't conservative, at least). He thinks financially losing Scotland isn't going to be as big of an impact as the Scots seem to imply, since they only hold something like 10% of the UK's wealth.
I've been teasing him he's not going to be British anymore if Great Britain is no longer a thing. I do wonder what that will mean for Great Britain/the UK if it's no longer a United Kingdom? Will they change the name? I guess that's really a minor detail, lol.
They still have Wales and N. Ireland.
I do wonder what it means for things like the sovereign standard. Do they lose the lion? What about the union jack? It is the st. andrew's cross and st. george's cross.. uh.
This is probably a dumb question (maybe I should pay more attention, lol) but isn't Scotland the "great" part of GB? I guess you're right that it would still be a "united kingdom", though less united than before
We were wondering about the flag too. He found some site that showed a bunch of options for flags if you take Scotland out of the union jack. They were really weird looking! I would think you'd have to change the flag, but that seems crazy!
I do wonder what it means for things like the sovereign standard. Do they lose the lion? What about the union jack? It is the st. andrew's cross and st. george's cross.. uh.
This is probably a dumb question (maybe I should pay more attention, lol) but isn't Scotland the "great" part of GB? I guess you're right that it would still be a "united kingdom", though less united than before
We were wondering about the flag too. He found some site that showed a bunch of options for flags if you take Scotland out of the union jack. They were really weird looking! I would think you'd have to change the flag, but that seems crazy!
Great Britain is made up of England, Scotland and Wales. So without Scotland it would still be the other 2. Throw Northern Ireland in there and you've got yourself a United Kingdom.
If the Yes vote wins, things are going to be messy. Obviously domestically there would be a lot to sort out, but from a foreign-policy perspective, things would be no less complicated. With so much in upheaval already this makes me nervous, although I can understand the reasoning behind wanting independence.
CurlyQ284 - This is supposedly a once-in-a-generation thing. Whether it's a yes or no vote - that's it. They don't want a no vote, in particular, to continue to be a referendum and they've indicated that they would work toward greater inclusion for the Scots.
Scotland would be fast tracked pretty quickly into the EU which would mean that there would be very little foreign policy implication in my mind.
Scotland has never voted for a Conservative party government, and a lot of the changes made by that party have had negative effects on Scotland. I can understand why Scotland wants independence today and I am in favor of the yes vote.
It's not that simple.
The foreign policy implications are not insignificant. First, the US would lose a critical port for our nuclear submarines as Scotland has said that it will be nuclear weapon-free.
Next, you have to consider Britain will lose a portion of its population, tax monies, and oil revenue, which means it will have a higher GDP to debt ratio. Although it might seem this is strictly a domestic issue, it's not. Focus will have to shift to shift to domestic issues as they figure out if Scots can keep their jobs in England and how this impacts organizations like the NSA and the military. Naturally, this makes the UK a less strong partner in dealing with foreign diplomacy issues.
This article explains the implications pretty well:
And, as a liberal myself, I can completely understand why Scotland wants its independence, but there are tremendous concerns over whether or not Scotland will be able to support itself financially, especially with the doubts that the oil reserves are anywhere near enough to last over the next 40 - 50 years.
It's a tremendously complicated issue.
Regardless, Scotland has definitely been underrepresented and something needs to be done to fix it, but I'm not sure this is the answer.
ETA: And I mean no disrespect to England. My great-grandmother was born in Scotland and moved to Canada with her family. So I have a fair amount of Scottish blood in my veins.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
Post by underwaterrhymes on Sept 18, 2014 10:18:07 GMT -5
Oh and my personal opinion is that David Cameron is a total pretentious, ignorant asshole who doesn't care about a large segment of the population he's supposed to represent. And he's building on a strong history of this, too.
So although I think independence would be messy and maybe not the best choice in the long run, I can absolutely understand the desire.
If the Yes vote wins, things are going to be messy. Obviously domestically there would be a lot to sort out, but from a foreign-policy perspective, things would be no less complicated. With so much in upheaval already this makes me nervous, although I can understand the reasoning behind wanting independence.
CurlyQ284 - This is supposedly a once-in-a-generation thing. Whether it's a yes or no vote - that's it. They don't want a no vote, in particular, to continue to be a referendum and they've indicated that they would work toward greater inclusion for the Scots.
Scotland would be fast tracked pretty quickly into the EU which would mean that there would be very little foreign policy implication in my mind.
Scotland has never voted for a Conservative party government, and a lot of the changes made by that party have had negative effects on Scotland. I can understand why Scotland wants independence today and I am in favor of the yes vote.
This may not be as quick an easy as you think. I think Spain will be really very reluctant to recognize them in the EU because of the implications for Catalonia and their quest for separation.
ETA: Also, I feel as an American I naturally side with anyone who wants to throw off the yoke of British control. Viva la revolution and all that. But I get that that's not particularly relevant to this debate. Ha.
Strict rules mean the BBC, like other broadcasters, isn't allowed to report details of campaigning while the polls are open.
In all national elections, the BBC is legally required both by its own charter and electoral law to adopt a code of practice.
The BBC Trust adopts an equivalent approach for national referendums and publishes guidelines for all BBC output to supplement its normal editorial guidelines in the very specific circumstances of an election or referendum period.
The basic principle behind this is the need for due impartiality of political coverage, as set out in the agreement accompanying the BBC Charter.
This requires the BBC over time to "give due weight and prominence to all the main strands of argument and to all the main parties."
So, on polling day specifically, the BBC (like other broadcasters, though they are covered by the Ofcom code rather than a charter) doesn't report on the campaigns or the issues which have been debated in them.
Coverage is limited to uncontroversial factual accounts of things like the logistics of voting, how the count will be done, or just the weather, so the BBC's output can't be seen as influencing the ballot while the polls are open.
ETA: Also, I feel as an American I naturally side with anyone who wants to throw off the yoke of British control. Viva la revolution and all that. But I get that that's not particularly relevant to this debate. Ha.
This is how I feel. Lol.
My sister lives there, but can't vote. Her H is not Scottish, but is an EU citizen, so he can vote. They are both for Yes. They're in the NE though, which is a largely Yes area (oil). I don't know enough to have an educated opinion, although I did grow up there, and emotionally, it's awesome they are getting this vote. My sister says a lot of what's hurting the Yes campaign is no one likes Alex Salmond much.
I just think it's funny that that commenter is like "I know you want independence but what about Australia's flag?!"
Yep you're right. Close the polls!
I think they were probably joking. At least, I hope so.
No, unfortunately there have been a lot of people using that as the main argument. :? (The above was the first time I saw someone from Australia mention it, the rest were Brits)
I get that a flag changing is a big deal. I'm just baffled there are people who are basing a country's right to independence based on a flag design. But let's be real, if you the U.S. had to add a star, there are people who would flip, ha.
I think they were probably joking. At least, I hope so.
No, unfortunately there have been a lot of people using that as the main argument. :? (The above was the first time I saw someone from Australia mention it, the rest were Brits)
I get that a flag changing is a big deal. I'm just baffled there are people who are basing a country's right to independence based on a flag design. But let's be real, if you the U.S. had to add a star, there are people who would flip, ha.
Huh.
Well, they're really narrow-minded, then.
I think this article does a super job of explaining both sides of the issue fairly well.
Scotland would be fast tracked pretty quickly into the EU which would mean that there would be very little foreign policy implication in my mind.
Scotland has never voted for a Conservative party government, and a lot of the changes made by that party have had negative effects on Scotland. I can understand why Scotland wants independence today and I am in favor of the yes vote.
This may not be as quick an easy as you think. I think Spain will be really very reluctant to recognize them in the EU because of the implications for Catalonia and their quest for separation.
This is what I was going to say. How would Scotland be fast tracked whereas the EU has told Catalonia they'd be left out?
I'm really interested to see what happens tonight since Catalonia is "voting" (in an "illegal" referendum) on November 9th.
I don't really have an opinion, although lots of comparisons are drawn with the independence movement here, which I am against. But I don't know what it's like in Scotland. I just hope they can vote and be done with it once and for all, instead of revisiting the idea constantly like we have been doing for 35 years.
This may not be as quick an easy as you think. I think Spain will be really very reluctant to recognize them in the EU because of the implications for Catalonia and their quest for separation.
This is what I was going to say. How would Scotland be fast tracked whereas the EU has told Catalonia they'd be left out?
I'm really interested to see what happens tonight since Catalonia is "voting" (in an "illegal" referendum) on November 9th.