Scotland!!! Anyone?

[rjamz]

Still too close to call! It's not over until David Cameron shows his ass!

[rjamz]

Dude, it's so close. 16,350-19,036 with only 1/32 declared.

[imimahoney]

I heard it won't be official until at least 1 am eastern standard. My fb is blowing up with all my camp friends. Surprisingly my 5 Scottish friends all said they voted no. I would have thought at least one of them would have voted yes.

[nannerl]

Although I understand the emotional yen by a large segment of Scots to have an independent Scotland, I'm not sure if all of the questions of if an independent Scotland will be better off have been answered.

[creamsiclechica]

Ahhhh I want to be watching! We got home late and now bedtime is delayed so hopefully it goes fast and I can watch!

[musiclover]

My new Scottish friend said no

[AndyCohen]

Sept 18, 2014 19:56:59 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

Sept 18, 2014 19:54:06 GMT -5 nannerl said:

Although I understand the emotional yen by a large segment of Scots to have an independent Scotland, I'm not sure if all of the questions of if an independent Scotland will be better off have been answered.

I would think it would be difficult for dependent country to start off on their own though.  Do you think there are things that may be insurmountable?

Especially in this age when countries are going bankrupt. Would they become part of the EU?

[musiclover]

Sept 18, 2014 20:04:06 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

Sept 18, 2014 19:57:18 GMT -5 musiclover said:

My new Scottish friend said no

Any chance he said why?

She did not say and I felt too uneducated to ask, isn't that embarrassing? I've read up more on it since this morning (spent some time earlier reading up on it) but during our playdate today, I was not quite ready to ask too many questions. I am quite curious.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2014 20:06:02 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

Sept 18, 2014 19:49:52 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

I heard it won't be official until at least 1 am eastern standard. My fb is blowing up with all my camp friends. Surprisingly my 5 Scottish friends all said they voted no. I would have thought at least one of them would have voted yes.

I am genuinely curious as to why people would say no.  E and I were just discussing it and he said ultimately, most of the votes will come down to Catholics vs. Protestants.  However, there are some people who would prefer one side or other despite their religious differences.

ETA: The few Scottish friends I do have are Catholics who adamantly want independence.

EU. My understanding is the Scots are very pro EU and the EU said they would have to reapply and could possibly not get in. They were also told they couldn't keep the pound as currency.

[AndyCohen]

Sept 18, 2014 20:14:51 GMT -5 @lindy said:

Sept 18, 2014 20:06:02 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

I am genuinely curious as to why people would say no.  E and I were just discussing it and he said ultimately, most of the votes will come down to Catholics vs. Protestants.  However, there are some people who would prefer one side or other despite their religious differences.

ETA: The few Scottish friends I do have are Catholics who adamantly want independence.

EU. My understanding is the Scots are very pro EU and the EU said they would have to reapply and could possibly not get in. They were also told they couldn't keep the pound as currency.

Yeah I was assuming something like this. I don't think the EU is going to want to risk a new country.

[nannerl]

Sept 18, 2014 19:56:59 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

Sept 18, 2014 19:54:06 GMT -5 nannerl said:

Although I understand the emotional yen by a large segment of Scots to have an independent Scotland, I'm not sure if all of the questions of if an independent Scotland will be better off have been answered.

I would think it would be difficult for dependent country to start off on their own though.  Do you think there are things that may be insurmountable?

I'm not sure about insurmountable. Eventually. But I think a lot of people are happy about how things are, and there is a lot of uncertainty about how long it will take before things smooth out. Some of the concerns I've heard involve participation in the EU (not guaranteed), how the NHS will function, will the currency remain stable, will investors pull out and will new businesses be willing to invest in Scotland. Also, there is a lot riding in the long term future productivity of the North Sea oil fields which is difficult to predict.

[imimahoney]

Sept 18, 2014 20:06:02 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

Sept 18, 2014 19:49:52 GMT -5 imimahoney said:

I heard it won't be official until at least 1 am eastern standard. My fb is blowing up with all my camp friends. Surprisingly my 5 Scottish friends all said they voted no. I would have thought at least one of them would have voted yes.

I am genuinely curious as to why people would say no.  E and I were just discussing it and he said ultimately, most of the votes will come down to Catholics vs. Protestants.  However, there are some people who would prefer one side or other despite their religious differences.

ETA: The few Scottish friends I do have are Catholics who adamantly want independence.

They're all Jews actually! Well except 1. They said financially, stability of Europe, and something along the lines of it isn't important right now. There might be more reasons I'm sure but that's what came up in convo.

[bigapple]

I'm solidly on Team No. How exactly does Scotland think it's going to function without GB? It's economy does seem self-sufficient enough to me. Manufacturing is all gone to cheaper countries, and their oil isn't going to last forever. Plus, there wasn't a guarantee of entry into the EU, so they could potentially be very fucked.

I'd love to write more, but I'm writing while walking and lugging a closetful of shoes.

[Deleted]

I don't have an opinion emotionally on Scotland because I have never lived there but how is it different than say, the southern states reuniting and voting on independence?

I think colonies are a lot different than how GB works, location wise they are neighbors and are very financially intertwined.

[Deleted]

I will admit I am kind of jealous. There are parts if the US I do not agree with politically at all, and I kind of wish they would vote to be a new country... Is that bad? Like if other countries split up, why can't we?! There are huge differences between parts of the US politically and socially.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2014 22:24:01 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

Sept 18, 2014 21:56:28 GMT -5 @lindy said:

I don't have an opinion emotionally on Scotland because I have never lived there but how is it different than say, the southern states reuniting and voting on independence?

I think colonies are a lot different than how GB works, location wise they are neighbors and are very financially intertwined.

It is different because the southern states are part of one country while Scotland is its own country with its own Parliament that is a territory of the United Kingdom.  It is much more comparable to the Virgin Islands, Guam or Puerto Rico declaring their independence from the US.

True. I don't blame them at all for wanting a government and country that votes like they want. I know the feeling lol. I am surprised Puerto Rico isn't independent or a state by now too.

[Deleted]

Looks like BBC called it for no.

[devotchka]

The Scottish Independence Referendum has failed, according to Guardian. Scotland will not be leaving the UK.

[bigapple]

Sept 18, 2014 22:44:10 GMT -5 @lindy said:

Sept 18, 2014 22:24:01 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

It is different because the southern states are part of one country while Scotland is its own country with its own Parliament that is a territory of the United Kingdom.  It is much more comparable to the Virgin Islands, Guam or Puerto Rico declaring their independence from the US.

True. I don't blame them at all for wanting a government and country that votes like they want. I know the feeling lol. I am surprised Puerto Rico isn't independent or a state by now too.

Puerto Rico has the best deal ever. US Citizenship and only a 4% income tax (no US federal tax)? Count me in.

I can't imagine conservatives ever granting Puerto Rico statehood unless they make massive inroads with Hispanic voters. Otherwise that would just be handing electoral votes and (voting) Congressional seats to Democrats.

[bigapple]

Sept 18, 2014 21:40:43 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

Sept 18, 2014 21:35:29 GMT -5 bigapple said:

I'm solidly on Team No. How exactly does Scotland think it's going to function without GB? It's economy does seem self-sufficient enough to me. Manufacturing is all gone to cheaper countries, and their oil isn't going to last forever. Plus, there wasn't a guarantee of entry into the EU, so they could potentially be very fucked.

I'd love to write more, but I'm writing while walking and lugging a closetful of shoes.

I totally understand that argument but it seems to based on the fear of what if. 

What if to me is enough when it comes to economic and strategic alliance uncertainty. I absolutely understand the nationalistic desire to be autonomous, but dull pragmatism clouds it for me.

(I'm also coming from the standpoint of talking to people every day from smaller, economically disadvantaged countries who are desperate to be (legally) part of a stronger economy, so that certainly sways me.)

[bigapple]

Clearly this thread (and my sleep deprived brain) is bring out my inner grumpy old man.

[Deleted]

I think this is not the last major attempt for Scottish independence.

[rjamz]

I'm bummed. But if that's what they want, that's what they want. Not my country. And I'll continue to drink their whisky

[Deleted]

I am going to teach my American Revolution class soon. We will talk about why the Am. Rev. was successful with similar numbers to what it looks like the Scotland Referendum will be. So fun!