Are you telling me this fucker is flooding you with floral arrangements, sobbing all over your children, crying in the halls, and occasionally mentioning suicide and you guys don't think he's playing games???
Dude, the devil is a lie and the truth is not in him! Where is the gospel choir? Someone call up Madea.
He's using YOUR CHILDREN to manipulate you and the situation. Personally, he needs to get the fuck out because his current behavior, whether suicidal or just fake is damaging your children.
Obviously I'm not in this guy's head, but based upon what you've told us, I don't believe for a nanosecond that he is serious about any suicide threat. He got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and now is being manipulative. Camp Stone Cold.
BTW, no one here can tell you if this is manipulation or real. Use your instincts and get outside help with suicide prevention specialists.
Right but your responses and some others here imply that if she puts him out and he kills himself, it will be her fault.
The reality is that if he's at risk for suicide, he's at risk for suicide whether he does it in their home or outside of it. Even if he is suicidal, she doesn't have to let him stay and letting him stay won't necessarily prevent it either, especially if it's the idea of a pending divorce that's spurring him on.
OP, I would suggest you call the suicide prevention hotline and see if they have any guidance here.
Post by lyssbobiss, Command, B613 on Sept 23, 2014 11:13:27 GMT -5
You are not a bitch. He cheated, he's facing the consequences of his actions, and he's acting out. Even if he is having depressive thoughts/behaviors, his emotions are not your responsibility. You need to take care of yourself, and let him handle his own shit.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
I want to say though that I'm really sorry you're going through this. It's easy for us to have an opinion but I cannot imagine the hardship of living with this. My opinion is colored by the fact that my exhusband tried to behave in a similar manipulative fashion after I said I no longer wanted to be married to him. He called everyone I knew before I could to spin some huge, sympathetic story. He played himself up as a loving father who was doing what he could to keep his family together. He even told his bosses at work that he had a gun at the house and was afraid of what he might do with it. This was after he'd given the gun to a friend of ours to hold onto because he was "worried what he might do with it."
It was a black powder pistol, ffs. Old school gun, no ammo in the house at all. But he implied to everyone who would listen that it was a garden variety weapon. Then when I said I didn't know where it was (because I wasn't supposed to know, he'd given it to someone without talking to me and they told me) he made it sound like I was hiding it somewhere and might use it.
He suddenly upped his involvement with the kids, taking them out in public so everyone could see what a great guy he was, told everyone he'd be willing to work things out, wanted to go to counseling and that I just wouldn't be a good wife and try to fix things.
And then he spent weeks trying to make me miserable and making it impossible for me to sleep or even sleep somewhere else.
So yeah, my sympathy meter for your husband is altogether broken.
I would suggest that when you have the custody and visitation orders written up, you be as detailed as possible because this is the type of fucker who will take every opportunity to be manipulative and passive aggressive in the future. I'm not saying you have to play hard ball or anything, just that you should be prepared for future fuckery.
Post by ringstrue on Sept 23, 2014 11:32:07 GMT -5
Yeah I think you should still move forward and get papers served and try again at figuring new living situations. Idk if he's lawyered up or what you guys financial situation is, but it might not be that you stay and he leaves. It depends on who is on the deed and who can afford what.
I hope the counselor or maybe your lawyer can help in moving things forward again.
I want to say though that I'm really sorry you're going through this. It's easy for us to have an opinion but I cannot imagine the hardship of living with this. My opinion is colored by the fact that my exhusband tried to behave in a similar manipulative fashion after I said I no longer wanted to be married to him. He called everyone I knew before I could to spin some huge, sympathetic story. He played himself up as a loving father who was doing what he could to keep his family together. He even told his bosses at work that he had a gun at the house and was afraid of what he might do with it. This was after he'd given the gun to a friend of ours to hold onto because he was "worried what he might do with it."
It was a black powder pistol, ffs. Old school gun, no ammo in the house at all. But he implied to everyone who would listen that it was a garden variety weapon. Then when I said I didn't know where it was (because I wasn't supposed to know, he'd given it to someone without talking to me and they told me) he made it sound like I was hiding it somewhere and might use it.
He suddenly upped his involvement with the kids, taking them out in public so everyone could see what a great guy he was, told everyone he'd be willing to work things out, wanted to go to counseling and that I just wouldn't be a good wife and try to fix things.
And then he spent weeks trying to make me miserable and making it impossible for me to sleep or even sleep somewhere else.
So yeah, my sympathy meter for your husband is altogether broken.
I would suggest that when you have the custody and visitation orders written up, you be as detailed as possible because this is the type of fucker who will take every opportunity to be manipulative and passive aggressive in the future. I'm not saying you have to play hard ball or anything, just that you should be prepared for future fuckery.
Alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll this. I know that no two men/marriages/divorces are the same, but the behavior your husband is displaying is classic tactics. Next up, once he realizes he can't play the woe is me card, will be the "fuck her, I'm taking the kids and everything I can, even though I'm the one who blew it" game.
Alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll this. I know that no two men/marriages/divorces are the same, but the behavior your husband is displaying is classic tactics. Next up, once he realizes he can't play the woe is me card, will be the "fuck her, I'm taking the kids and everything I can, even though I'm the one who blew it" game.
I'm twitching just thinking of the bullshit he used to/occasionally still pulls. There was the time he had someone call child services of me after his mother tried to say I beat the kids with a switch. Really, I'm sure his mother did and that's why I don't talk to her tired ass but when I called him on it, he said all cryptically "the call came from Iraq." FUCK YOU, ASSHOLE!
Then there was the time he tried to file an emergency custody hearing because I didn't call my two year old often enough while she was with him. And the time I didn't know where she was staying when he had his visitation.
BUT it does get better. It gets easier to tell the difference between the bullshit and the stuff you should care about. And eventually, they find someone else and the bullshit dies down considerably.
And if it helps, you do forget about this stuff and move on. Honestly, I'd completely forgotten about the shit with that pistol until today. The sooner you get it over with, the sooner everyone can move on.
Alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll this. I know that no two men/marriages/divorces are the same, but the behavior your husband is displaying is classic tactics. Next up, once he realizes he can't play the woe is me card, will be the "fuck her, I'm taking the kids and everything I can, even though I'm the one who blew it" game.
I'm twitching just thinking of the bullshit he used to/occasionally still pulls. There was the time he had someone call child services of me after his mother tried to say I beat the kids with a switch. Really, I'm sure his mother did and that's why I don't talk to her tired ass but when I called him on it, he said all cryptically "the call came from Iraq." FUCK YOU, ASSHOLE!
Then there was the time he tried to file an emergency custody hearing because I didn't call my two year old often enough while she was with him. And the time I didn't know where she was staying when he had his visitation. BUT it does get better. It gets easier to tell the difference between the bullshit and the stuff you should care about. And eventually, they find someone else and the bullshit dies down considerably.
And if it helps, you do forget about this stuff and move on. Honestly, I'd completely forgotten about the shit with that pistol until today. The sooner you get it over with, the sooner everyone can move on.
Isn't it crazy how things get SO insane? The bolded is something important to remember, imo. It does. He might (like my ex, 14 years now) never ever stop with his bullshit, but I've stopped letting it run my life, so I don't really care anymore if he wants to stay miserable.
Post by pinkdutchtulips on Sept 23, 2014 12:01:59 GMT -5
wo reading all of the responses ....
when you're done, you're done and only you know what that point is. I allowed my now pending ex (papers filed earlier this month) back into my place mid May when he completed rehab and I knew I was DONE w/ him when he told me that he NEEDED dd and I for his recovery to stick. that moment, I knew I was done and it was only confirmed when he relapsed a week or so later.
in the meantime, I've been called all sorts of things by him, 'cold hearted bitch' being the most frequent. far be it from me to willing cave to a manipulator who's only looking out for himself. what your ex needs to do is find his OWN place.
Post by pcelurkerae on Sept 23, 2014 12:04:51 GMT -5
It's so hard to known which path to take right now, and I appreciate all of your responses. I feel as though the counselor and the lawyer are the angel and devil on my shoulders telling me two different things. Not helpful to have such conflicting thoughts.
He just texted me "Don't worry,PetName. I'm going out to lunch today."
So yeah, that seems like a manipulative text if 'er there was one.
And he is going to fight moving out tooth and nail, and lawyer says unless I get a restraining order, I cannot force him. And there is no cause for a TRO right now.
He was the one who took weeks to schedule an appointment with the counselor hoping that it would just blow over, right? If so I think this is just another way he is trying to manipulate you into staying with him.
Yes, that was him. I am now trying to figure out when to serve him the papers. I obviously don't want to serve him if it will legitimately cause him harm, either self harm or a mental breakdown, but I really want to rip this bandaid off.
to quote Nike ... "JUST DO IT !" there is no good time to serve D papers. what happens, happens and realize that you have no control over it.
fwiw, I had my pending ex served in jail ... yes jail.
Every person and divorce is going to be different. In my experience, it finally took being stone cold to get him out of my life. It seemed like the more I was kind to him and cared about his feelings/well being, the more he saw that as an opening to talk about fixing our marriage or being a better husband or whatever BS I didn't care about anymore. I just realized I finally haven't heard from him at all in 3 months - and it's been about 20 months since we separated. It's been longer than that since I think he realized things were over, but he still used to attempt friendly contact for whatever reason.
Anyway, for me it was helpful during the divorce to be kind but firm. I was very careful not to lose my temper (much) and to show some concern for his feelings because I think if I had been completely stone cold during the divorce, he would have fought me harder on things like money (we don't have kids, so custody wasn't an issue, but I can see it being one here). Some people thought I was nuts to be "friends" with my XH while we were working toward divorce, but I think I knew him and knew what I was doing After things were finalized I told him we weren't going to be friends and not to contact me (and it took close to a year for that to completely happen).
Anyway, my point being - I think it's ok to be stone cold. I also think it's ok to be kind to him but stay firm in what you want. You don't have to feel bad for him, or feel guilty if you don't. If I were in your shoes I'd try to be kind and acknowledge his feelings without becoming involved in them, if that makes sense. Suggest he find his own place and talk to his counselor/friend/relative when he is crying to you. Tell him you are sorry he feels that way but you are not the appropriate person to discuss his feelings with anymore.
I am not divorced, so I can't speak from a place of empathy, but it sounds like you're not "stone cold" so much as done and not in love with him - especially the parts where he is using his uber emotional state to try and appeal to you to change your mind. It sounds like he needs a friend/family member or his own counselor to talk to about how to move past this.
From my two friends who went through divorce in the last year, the hardest part for them was not being at the same emotional state as their partner. When you're falling in love, you're both there, when content, you're both there, but during divorce one would be in a sadness/grieving state while the other was in an angry/why? state which leads to more conflict. That was just my observation, not that I know what to do in that case. Good luck, I hope he or you can move out quickly so you can start working on future plans.
Thank you. We are in two totally different places. It's like I flipped a switch and all my feelings for him are gone. I just want freedom and space and relief. It's all I want is to be away from him and his control. Get me outta here.
I wanted to comment on this thread when it was posted - but work.
No, you're not a heartless bitch. You're done. I know what that feels like because it was me during my divorce. I actually told my ex-H that he could stand in front of me naked and I'd tell him to put on clothes before he caught a cold. So, yeah.
As for your H, I'm team he's being manipulative. All that snotting and crying isn't going to change how you feel. At some point, he's going to have to come to grips with the fact that you're out, and that you both need to redirect your focus to how to make this split less upsetting to the children. I don't know if that's something you need to go over in counseling, but I suggest that you start there. His last ditch efforts are futile, and he'll need to shift his energy from trying to win you back to the next stage.
Question - how many times have you taken him back before? Because while I totally think he's being manipulative, there is also a bit of "Well, she took me back before" that can enter this. Lord knows I did it enough times with my ex-H before I hit my limit. Because, real talk, if I'd stuck to my guns the first time around, I wouldn't have an 11yr old. The waffling took me another 2 years into a situation that I initially said "Man. Fuck you. I'm out."
It's so hard to known which path to take right now, and I appreciate all of your responses. I feel as though the counselor and the lawyer are the angel and devil on my shoulders telling me two different things. Not helpful to have such conflicting thoughts.
He just texted me "Don't worry,PetName. I'm going out to lunch today."
So yeah, that seems like a manipulative text if 'er there was one.
And he is going to fight moving out tooth and nail, and lawyer says unless I get a restraining order, I cannot force him. And there is no cause for a TRO right now.
Does moving out of the house hurt your likelihood of retaining equity or the house itself? I'm guessing your lawyer would know.
If it doesn't hurt your own equity or the stake in the house itself, I would try to make a plan to be out with the kids and let your DH know that you're planning to be out during the divorce negotiations and that you'd still like to sit and make a parenting plan for the interim. Give him dates that you plan to establish the parenting plan and be out. My friend waited too long to start the parenting plan and some of the stuff they did in the interim made it much harder on the kids b/c conditions kept changing.
It's so hard to known which path to take right now, and I appreciate all of your responses. I feel as though the counselor and the lawyer are the angel and devil on my shoulders telling me two different things. Not helpful to have such conflicting thoughts.
I'm guessing they both have your best interest at heart. The lawyer is telling you what to do to ultimately help you in your divorce proceeding.
For example, the counselor might tell you to leave the home asap because it'll be easier to handle and better for your mental health. The lawyer might tell you to stay in the house because it'll help you long term if you want to keep the house or if there's a chance the other side could argue you abandoned it by leaving. Neither side is wrong, they just have different perspectives.
You're not a stone cold bitch. It's ok to be done and it's ok to have those feelings based on how he's reacting. If he mentions suicide again, call 911 and the counselor.
My ex had a couple of "break downs" at the end and I felt the same way as you...I just wanted to get out of the situation asap. There is only so much you can handle.
In the mean time, I would meet with a lawyer and figure out how you can move out (or make him move out) sooner rather than later and if that has any legal implications in regards to child support and custody.
How much of a bitch am I because I'm just so done? I don't care about his crying anymore, I don't care if he doesn't eat, etc. I care because he's acting a fool around the children and that annoys me. But I was good for a few days with his sadness, but honestly, when I found out about his fuckery I still had to get up everyday and take care of my children. And I never once let my dismay affect them.
Keep it real, am I just a stone bitch? Should I care?
I ain't mad at you.
I would reiterate a truthful, kind, but generic phrase like " Your life has value and I want you to be well. Please talk to your counselor about these thoughts." I wouldn't own that pain, nope.