I think the officer would have lied about it had it not been caught on camera and it would have taken a full on investigation to determine the outcome. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing though.
Why would it be better to not have a dash camera and have a full investigation instead?
That's not what I meant.
I meant that I cannot argue against waiting to fire someone until after an investigation is completed if there's no dash cam to rely on.
Post by readyin07 on Sept 25, 2014 15:36:00 GMT -5
WTF WTF WTF. This video made me cry. That poor man's voice is so bewildered. And at one point he is saying yes sir about something and maintaining such civility...I have no idea how he kept it together (well besides the proximity of a trigger happy cop) bc my first instinct when someone SHOOTS me for no freaking reason is probably going to be to go bat shit crazy on his ass
Yeah, I can fault the police. They didn't even get his attention before killing him. He was on the phone chatting and then was like, "Woah, misunderstanding cop...[bam - dead]" That is not good police training either.
Where did you see that? I really cannot tell since there is no audio. I think the guy may have not known they were talking to/ giving commands to him since he wasn't doing anything wrong and that is why he didn't respond to their direction. I am assuming they were giving commands. But he doesn't have to point the gun at them for them to justifiably shoot. I didn't see a phone in that video from the article either, but it is a grainy image.
We talked about this article a couple of weeks ago, but it says he was on the phone with the mother of his children the whole time. Even while he was being shot. I'm sure they can get cellphone records to back up that claim as well.
Johnson, the mother of Crawford’s children, who remained on the phone line to him throughout, has told reporters that she heard him say “It’s not real”, adding: “they said ‘get on the ground,’ but he was already on the ground because they had shot him”. Wright said they were trying to reconcile this with the footage.
Its an open carry state too. So for those who say the cops couldn't tell it wasn't a real gun: he would have been within his rights to carry a real gun, and the law makes no distinction about how you have to carry the gun.
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But the 911 call stated that he was loading it in the store and pointing it at children as they are walking by. I heard there is another video that overlays the 911 call with the video and that you can see he is not doing anything the caller is stating. I cannot fault the police for their response. But I definitely think the 911 caller should be charged with something.
I admit I don't know much about police training, but everything I've seen on tv and heard people talk about, aren't they trained to say something first? Drop your weapon or something? I mean unless they literally see the person actively shooting. On the ML thread a few of us have brought up several cases of white ARMED men, where the police come in all calm and start negotiating. It's not guns a blazing from the get go...only if you're black it seems.
I admit I don't know much about police training, but everything I've seen on tv and heard people talk about, aren't they trained to say something first? Drop your weapon or something? I mean unless they literally see the person actively shooting. On the ML thread a few of us have brought up several cases of white ARMED men, where the police come in all calm and start negotiating. It's not guns a blazing from the get go...only if you're black it seems.
Yes they are. Since that is like police training 101 I am assuming they were doing this. But since there is no audio I don't know. But when someone calls the police and says that there is a man with a gun, pointing it at kids, and loading it they are going to go in with a different approach.
If they didn't give any verbal commands that COULD be a problem. Not every situation presents enough time to give commands. So training would not indicate that it is a must.
But if anyone who calls 911 can claim any black man is brandishing a weapon at kids and then it's ok for police to shoot on sight from that 911 call, what is stopping every racist jerk from doing that all over the public.
I say nope to this - watch the video in the other thread and you should be appalled. Some lying/misinformation from Joe Public does not give any PEACE officer the right to blaze guns in a Walmart at a guy on the phone holding a toy BB gun.
I admit I don't know much about police training, but everything I've seen on tv and heard people talk about, aren't they trained to say something first? Drop your weapon or something? I mean unless they literally see the person actively shooting. On the ML thread a few of us have brought up several cases of white ARMED men, where the police come in all calm and start negotiating. It's not guns a blazing from the get go...only if you're black it seems.
Yes they are. Since that is like police training 101 I am assuming they were doing this. But since there is no audio I don't know. But when someone calls the police and says that there is a man with a gun, pointing it at kids, and loading it they are going to go in with a different approach.
If they didn't give any verbal commands that COULD be a problem. Not every situation presents enough time to give commands. So training would not indicate that it is a must.
The video I watched had audio. 911 is still on the phone. You can hear a woman crying/screaming in the background and you can hear the gunshots. You can hear the police say something, literally a split second before the shots go off, while it looks like they are creeping around some sort of barrier. The suspect had the gun pointed down at the ground in a non-threatening manner.
Call me a skeptic, but it just seems like if that were a woman or a white guy, things would've gone down differently. I'm sure it's scary as hell to be a police officer, but being trigger happy against black men has got to stop.
Its an open carry state too. So for those who say the cops couldn't tell it wasn't a real gun: he would have been within his rights to carry a real gun, and the law makes no distinction about how you have to carry the gun.
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But the 911 call stated that he was loading it in the store and pointing it at children as they are walking by. I heard there is another video that overlays the 911 call with the video and that you can see he is not doing anything the caller is stating. I cannot fault the police for their response. But I definitely think the 911 caller should be charged with something.
Oh, I agree. The video I saw, there were only two times the guy wasn't near a camera. He wasn't pointing the gun at anyone. He was talking on his cellphone and seemed completely distracted by that.
From what I could see of when the police rushed in, they never gave him a real chance to understand what they were saying and to put the gun down. You could tell he was totally taken aback by guys running at him with guns and he instinctively ran. There was no sound so I couldn't tell when the shots were fired.
In the comment section of the site I saw the video on, some defended the cops saying "well, they couldn't tell if wasn't a real gun". My point is, it's not illegal to have a real gun there. Which only proves why open carry laws are very problematic, IMO. Maybe it was untrue, but someone supposedly familiar with the law said that even if he had been pointing a gun at people, that isn't against the law either. There are no regulations about how to open carry, only regulations that you have the right to do so.
If you're white. Only the law doesn't say that part.
Yes they are. Since that is like police training 101 I am assuming they were doing this. But since there is no audio I don't know. But when someone calls the police and says that there is a man with a gun, pointing it at kids, and loading it they are going to go in with a different approach.
If they didn't give any verbal commands that COULD be a problem. Not every situation presents enough time to give commands. So training would not indicate that it is a must.
The video I watched had audio. 911 is still on the phone. You can hear a woman crying/screaming in the background and you can hear the gunshots. You can hear the police say something, literally a split second before the shots go off, while it looks like they are creeping around some sort of barrier. The suspect had the gun pointed down at the ground in a non-threatening manner.
Call me a skeptic, but it just seems like if that were a woman or a white guy, things would've gone down differently. I'm sure it's scary as hell to be a police officer, but being trigger happy against black men has got to stop.
I think the 911 caller called because it was a black man. I don't have proof obviously, but I think they said it was upscale and like 2% black area. The 22-ish year old white young man caller said specifically that he was waving it around and pointing at children. That's fucked up that he did that. Beyond fucked up. It should be criminal. It's not like he mistook the situation, he admitted to "over exaggerating" once the footage came out. They didn't release the footage before the grand jury so as not to taint any perceptions in the public. So this caller wasn't known to have been lying until after. So I don't know exactly how it should've gone down, but I think it complicates things that the police thought they were responding to a man pointing a rifle at children, when in fact nothing at all was going on. They will be in a diff mindset, know what I mean? I'm not excusing the outcome. I just think the dickhead 911 caller needs to be taken to task for this. He caused this, along with the death of the 37 year old who died of a heart attack trying to get her kids to safety.
False 911 calls should absolutely be a crime. That's outrageous. Not like he was mistaken, he said he over exaggerated. If he never called 911 on false pretenses, nothing would've happened.
Post by AllieHound on Sept 26, 2014 19:35:08 GMT -5
It's a pretty nice area- a lot of shopping an restaurants. It's very close to Wright Patt AFB and only about a mile away from my undergrad alma mater. But it's not ritzy and while overwhelmingly white, it has more diversity than many of its surrounding communities. Although locals are arguing against putting a bus stop there, so who knows.
I think the main problem, other than a POS 911 caller who needs prison time, is that the police viewed it as an "Active Shooter" scene which really means shoot first, ask later. I think that the problem. I actually don't think the outcome of the police actions, in this one circumstance, would have been different if he was white. I think anyone would have been shot.
I have my doubts about whether the 911 caller would have made the same report about a white guy, though.
It's a pretty nice area- a lot of shopping an restaurants. It's very close to Wright Patt AFB and only about a mile away from my undergrad alma mater. But it's not ritzy and while overwhelmingly white, it has more diversity than many of its surrounding communities. Although locals are arguing against putting a bus stop there, so who knows.
I think the main problem, other than a POS 911 caller who needs prison time, is that the police viewed it as an "Active Shooter" scene which really means shoot first, ask later. I think that the problem. I actually don't think the outcome of the police actions, in this one circumstance, would have been different if he was white. I think anyone would have been shot.
I have my doubts about whether the 911 caller would have made the same report about a white guy, though.
Oh, sorry! I am not from there, I'm just going off news reports. They used the word "upscale" and said it only had a 2% black population. It's MORE diverse than other surrounding areas? At 2% black population? Yikes.
I really think this caller needs to shoulder some blame here. It's outrageous to me so done can call 911, make things up, admit to making it up, and it's no big deal. Especially considering two people died.
I'm just going to go ahead and ditto pennypenny on everything she said. I'm also going to reiterate that most police DO want dash cam video and/or lapel video.
ETA: Also? Seriously, people. When a cop pulls you over don't get out of the fucking car. DO NOT GET OUT OF THE CAR. Seriously. Unless you want to get shot. (and I'm not saying that the cop was right to shoot the dude just because he got out of the car, because I'm not. Just general advice. Don't get out of the fucking car. Just don't.)
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
I'm just going to go ahead and ditto pennypenny on everything she said. I'm also going to reiterate that most police DO want dash cam video and/or lapel video.
ETA: Also? Seriously, people. When a cop pulls you over don't get out of the fucking car. DO NOT GET OUT OF THE CAR. Seriously. Unless you want to get shot. (and I'm not saying that the cop was right to shoot the dude just because he got out of the car, because I'm not. Just general advice. Don't get out of the fucking car. Just don't.)
While good advice, in this instance he wasn't pulled over. He parked his car at a convenience store and was heading in to make a purchase when the cop pulled up with no lights or sirens to cite him for not wearing a seatbelt. Which he alleges he took off to go inside the store. Sigh.
Thank you -- I ASSumed before I took in the whole thing. My apologies.
Still..I see people do it all the time. Don't get out of the car.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley