My mom went back to school when I was 8 so my brother (2 years older) and I were left on our own often due to her working one of her two jobs or late classes. Dad worked second then so Mom would get home at 9 and Dad at 11. We'd get home, do homework, watch TV, and pop a frozen whatever into the oven/microwave so it wasn't a big deal.
Post by chedifuen on Sept 28, 2014 20:19:52 GMT -5
My kid is nearly 8 and I have no doubt he would be totally fine home alone for a few hours. He knows and follows the rules and I trust he would be safe. That said, I don't leave him home alone because its illegal at this age in our state and I worry someone would report it.
I was latch key at 9 and responsible for my 7 year old sister. If we were reversed i doubt my dad would have been ok with that. Just different levels of maturity and ability to utilize resources.
And that's still kind of the case for us as adults. I'm very calm and practical in an emergency, and my sister has more of a tendency to get flustered.
And, yeah, add me to watching infants well before 14.
Post by MrsAxilla on Sept 28, 2014 20:31:03 GMT -5
Ben asked to stay home alone the other day and I told him it was illegal (I didn't know our law offhand). He said "I won't call the cops on you guys". Haha.
Ben asked to stay home alone the other day and I told him it was illegal (I didn't know our law offhand). He said "I won't call the cops on you guys". Haha.
Tell him he has a future career in the La Cosa Nostra.
DS1 is 7.5 and I would definitely trust him to be alone in our house while I ran errands. He would likely play Legos the entire time and barely notice I was gone. In all honesty the only reason I don't is because I'm worried someone would find out and call CPS on me, because people are seriously crazy about stuff like this.
And yes, I was babysitting at 9, babysitting infants at 11. Home alone if sick from school in 1st/2nd grade.
I don't think this is about "I'm breezy!" As a parent, but that our society has seriously gone so far over to the child centric,helicoptering, coddling side that people truly have lost perspective on things like this.
Having a 12 year old babysitter is legal here, but leaving a 7 year old home alone isn't. Our sitter is 12 and she is great! Dd1 is 8 and has no desire to be left alone. I see no reason to push it, nor would I judge someone who did (it's legal at 8). Not sure why we have to go from one extreme to the other. "A tragedy waiting to happen" or an example of helicopter parenting/not trusting our kids.
um. Ok.
I don-t think leaving a kid home alone is a trajedy waiting to happen an y more than driving with your kid in the car. Less so probably.
Having a 12 year old babysitter is legal here, but leaving a 7 year old home alone isn't. Our sitter is 12 and she is great! Dd1 is 8 and has no desire to be left alone. I see no reason to push it, nor would I judge someone who did (it's legal at 8). Not sure why we have to go from one extreme to the other. "A tragedy waiting to happen" or an example of helicopter parenting/not trusting our kids.
um. Ok.
I don-t think leaving a kid home alone is a trajedy waiting to happen an y more than driving with your kid in the car. Less so probably.
My mom went back to school when I was 8 so my brother (2 years older) and I were left on our own often due to her working one of her two jobs or late classes. Dad worked second then so Mom would get home at 9 and Dad at 11. We'd get home, do homework, watch TV, and pop a frozen whatever into the oven/microwave so it wasn't a big deal.
This is a good point - financially, can you imagine how much it would have cost your parents to have your mom in school and then find and pay a sitter from 3pm until 9pm every night? At current rates of about $8/hr that would be an extra $1,730 per month?!
I feel like we've got a subculture of parents who are trying to "out-cool" each other. They all want to be "that" parent whose children are so mature and so well-behaved they exceed all expectations. I don't know if it's a reaction to helicopter parenting or a sense of nostalgia for the "good old days," but there are so many articles and blog posts focused on how breezy and go-with-the-flow a parent is being.
I don't sense anything 'breezy' about this article. She didn't just say 'whatever', she did the training.
And isn't that what we're supposed to do - train our children to be independent and capable?
I'm torn. I'm not sure how I feel about leaving a kid alone at 7. I don't think I'd be ready to do it, but on the other hand one hour alone should not be the end of the world, and baby steps make sense.
I walked home alone from school at 6. My mom was home in those days but she went back to work when I was in 4th or 5th grade, so it was often me and two younger sisters alone until my dad got home.
I feel like we've got a subculture of parents who are trying to "out-cool" each other. They all want to be "that" parent whose children are so mature and so well-behaved they exceed all expectations. I don't know if it's a reaction to helicopter parenting or a sense of nostalgia for the "good old days," but there are so many articles and blog posts focused on how breezy and go-with-the-flow a parent is being.
I don't sense anything 'breezy' about this article. She didn't just say 'whatever', she did the training.
And isn't that what we're supposed to do - train our children to be independent and capable?
I'm torn. I'm not sure how I feel about leaving a kid alone at 7. I don't think I'd be ready to do it, but on the other hand one hour alone should not be the end of the world, and baby steps make sense.
I walked home alone from school at 6. My mom was home in those days but she went back to work when I was in 4th or 5th grade, so it was often me and two younger sisters alone until my dad got home.
I admit, I'm torn, too. And maybe it is that helicopter parenting has made this seem like a bad idea, like laurenpetro said. I suspect it's a little of both. I would be uncomfortable leaving my 7-year-old alone on her own. She's old enough to have some responsibilities, and she'd probably be fine, but I know she's not mature enough to handle a few hours of responsibility (like getting her homework done, etc.). Maybe some kids are. My comment was mostly because I feel like I've seen a lot of articles lately with parents writing about how breezy they are. Maybe I just lumped it in with those.
There doesn't seem to be any magical age of responsibility, which is what makes this such a difficult topic. Most agree that 11 and 12-year-olds are responsible enough to take care of themselves and younger children. But then we get into, how about 10? 9? 8? How young is too young?
In addition to being influenced by each every individual kid's abilities, I think that this is influenced by where you live/the type of town/neighborhood you live in as well.
I live in a city of 50,000 people, total. There are about 5,800 students in the school district and NO buses. Every single student walks or rides their bike or gets picked up/dropped off by parents. You'd be surprised by how many kids do not get driven by parents. Especially elementary age kids, since there are a lot of elementary schools. So every day you'll see all these kids walking alone, through a densely populated city, twice a day. And they usually don't go right inside after school. They stop at playgrounds, they stop at their friend's houses and play in the yard, they stop at convenience stores and buy candy. So it's a normal thing around here to see kids be independent. Leaving your kid alone in that type of environment is a normal thing that you see every day. I could probably leave my kids at home to run a half hour errand and be pretty sure that no one is going to call CPS on me. I'd probably just tell my next door neighbor what I was doing though...but their first though wouldn't be "CALL THE POLICE". Their first thought would be..."OK, if I see fire in the next 20 minutes I will call the fire department, just like I would IN ANY OTHER CASE."
Now back in my hometown...suburbia? I'd always feel like someone is watching my every move, waiting to make sure that everyone knows that they're a better parent than I am because they never ever leave their children alone.
My mom went back to school when I was 8 so my brother (2 years older) and I were left on our own often due to her working one of her two jobs or late classes. Dad worked second then so Mom would get home at 9 and Dad at 11. We'd get home, do homework, watch TV, and pop a frozen whatever into the oven/microwave so it wasn't a big deal.
This is a good point - financially, can you imagine how much it would have cost your parents to have your mom in school and then find and pay a sitter from 3pm until 9pm every night? At current rates of about $8/hr that would be an extra $1,730 per month?!
I'm a lurker but have so many thoughts on this topic. On the childcare point, it makes me angry that a number of these high-profile CPS stories have involved low income moms just trying to navigate the sad state of childcare in this country. This helicopter culture disproportionately affects working moms, but especially lower income and shift workers.
FWIW, I started taking public transportation to school at 13. I took a bus and then transferred to the subway. I wouldn't leave my 3 year old home alone (obviously) but she gets free roam of the house even if I'm sleeping or showering upstairs. I didn't realize this was weird until this thread.
You have to start somewhere. If you want your 18 year old to be able to go to college, they have to be fairly independent by 16, which means they have to start learning those skills someone.
My professor friends regularly get calls from the parents of their students. I can't even imagine. I weep for the future of this country.
In addition to being influenced by each every individual kid's abilities, I think that this is influenced by where you live/the type of town/neighborhood you live in as well.
I live in a city of 50,000 people, total. There are about 5,800 students in the school district and NO buses. Every single student walks or rides their bike or gets picked up/dropped off by parents. You'd be surprised by how many kids do not get driven by parents. Especially elementary age kids, since there are a lot of elementary schools. So every day you'll see all these kids walking alone, through a densely populated city, twice a day. And they usually don't go right inside after school. They stop at playgrounds, they stop at their friend's houses and play in the yard, they stop at convenience stores and buy candy. So it's a normal thing around here to see kids be independent. Leaving your kid alone in that type of environment is a normal thing that you see every day. I could probably leave my kids at home to run a half hour errand and be pretty sure that no one is going to call CPS on me. I'd probably just tell my next door neighbor what I was doing though...but their first though wouldn't be "CALL THE POLICE". Their first thought would be..."OK, if I see fire in the next 20 minutes I will call the fire department, just like I would IN ANY OTHER CASE."
Now back in my hometown...suburbia? I'd always feel like someone is watching my every move, waiting to make sure that everyone knows that they're a better parent than I am because they never ever leave their children alone.
Where do you live? I kinda want to live there, too.
Post by MrsAxilla on Sept 29, 2014 22:33:13 GMT -5
DH and I have differing views on all this. I say Ben is old enough to walk to and from school himself (at least 90% of the way). DH says no. Part of the reason I haven't pushed the issue is because I like taking the baby on the walk, and occasionally chatting with the other moms.
This is a good point - financially, can you imagine how much it would have cost your parents to have your mom in school and then find and pay a sitter from 3pm until 9pm every night? At current rates of about $8/hr that would be an extra $1,730 per month?!
I'm a lurker but have so many thoughts on this topic. On the childcare point, it makes me angry that a number of these high-profile CPS stories have involved low income moms just trying to navigate the sad state of childcare in this country. This helicopter culture disproportionately affects working moms, but especially lower income and shift workers.
I meant to raise the class issue yesterday because it's definitely there. Social class certainly does not, and should not, excuse all behavior, but where the threat is more perceived than real and the answer depends upon so many variables, absolutism is privilege writ large.
I'm a lurker but have so many thoughts on this topic. On the childcare point, it makes me angry that a number of these high-profile CPS stories have involved low income moms just trying to navigate the sad state of childcare in this country. This helicopter culture disproportionately affects working moms, but especially lower income and shift workers.
I meant to raise the class issue yesterday because it's definitely there. Social class certainly does not, and should not, excuse all behavior, but where the threat is more perceived than real and the answer depends upon so many variables, absolutism is privilege writ large.
I think class is a big issue. The whole freak out over 10-year-olds being alone strikes me as such a privileged position.
I had to stay home alone for about 45 minutes daily at the end of second grade, when I was 7. I had previously gone to an in-home daycare after school, but the woman watching us went back to an office job. My brother got out of school 45 minutes after me. My staying home alone was borne completely out of necessity. What else could she do?
DH and I have differing views on all this. I say Ben is old enough to walk to and from school himself (at least 90% of the way). DH says no. Part of the reason I haven't pushed the issue is because I like taking the baby on the walk, and occasionally chatting with the other moms.
Lots of people walk their kids to school for that reason! It's a good way to socialize. It seems like most kids walk home by themselves though.
I live in Lakewood, OH. Come be my neighbor! We love it here, so much. We are moving in October, and could have moved to a much bigger, cheaper house further out in the suburbs but we never want to leave everything we have here. It's kind of a liberal wonderland.
This is a short video about the no buses thing. This was made in the winter, when it was cold, too...and everyone is still walking/biking.
Post by demandypants on Sept 30, 2014 7:35:47 GMT -5
I too grew up in a family where it was necessary for my sister and I to be "latchkey" kids. We got ourselves onto the bus in the morning and back to an empty house after school. However, we had a strong sense of neighborhood where we lived. I knew who should be home if I needed help, I was pretty responsible as a child, and called my mom at work after we got off of the bus so she knew we made it home and just to check in about our days. We would have a snack, and watch tv for a little before my dad got home.
My DD is getting close to 7, and so this particular story intrigues me. She plays outside without our watching her with her friends all the time. And has gained this independence gradually over the past couple of summers. They have boundaries and stay within them and the parents in the neighborhood all feel the same way about this freedom. (Well aside from one helicopter mom. but that is another story.) When the kids end up in our yard, I make regular checks on them to make sure they are not doing anything stupid (riding chairs down the slide). But they are given the freedom to work out their problems on their own.
Anyway, my rambling has a point. I feel like my kid is pretty close to the point where I could leave her home alone for 30 minutes to run to get something and let her sit and watch a show with instructions on what to do and making sure a neighbor is home for her to get help if she needs it.
My answer to this is NO, not yet. But my situation is a bit different. I have to be 100% certain that she can manage her T1 diabetes independently, especially in the case of a sudden emergency, before leaving her completely alone. It's pretty easy for anyone to make a mistake on an insulin pump (they are not foolproof), never mind a distracted first grader. I bet in a few years she will have it all down to a science. She is going to have to take the wheel with all of it sooner or later to live a normal, healthy and productive life.
I'm trying to remember how old I was the time I discovered that one of our cats who had a cut on the side of his neck had gotten an infection and Mama wasn't home. I called around to the various neighbors and finally got THE most uptight woman on our little street on the phone. And was all, "hi. My mom's not home. My cat doesn't feel good and has a swollen oozy cut on his neck. What do I do?" and looking back on it she was totally taken aback that I was home alone. Her first response was, "well, where is your mother?" I don't remember where mama was, but I'm pretty sure my response was to repeat slower and louder like she was just dumb "She's. not. home. I'm really worried about my cat. What do I do?"
And then she recommended cleaning it with peroxide.
Pretty sure if this was present day we'd have gotten a visit from CPS. That would have been...interesting. Rural PA in the early 90's with my gay mom and an assortment of roommates. That would have gone over well I'm sure.
In addition to being influenced by each every individual kid's abilities, I think that this is influenced by where you live/the type of town/neighborhood you live in as well.
I live in a city of 50,000 people, total. There are about 5,800 students in the school district and NO buses. Every single student walks or rides their bike or gets picked up/dropped off by parents. You'd be surprised by how many kids do not get driven by parents. Especially elementary age kids, since there are a lot of elementary schools. So every day you'll see all these kids walking alone, through a densely populated city, twice a day. And they usually don't go right inside after school. They stop at playgrounds, they stop at their friend's houses and play in the yard, they stop at convenience stores and buy candy. So it's a normal thing around here to see kids be independent. Leaving your kid alone in that type of environment is a normal thing that you see every day. I could probably leave my kids at home to run a half hour errand and be pretty sure that no one is going to call CPS on me. I'd probably just tell my next door neighbor what I was doing though...but their first though wouldn't be "CALL THE POLICE". Their first thought would be..."OK, if I see fire in the next 20 minutes I will call the fire department, just like I would IN ANY OTHER CASE."
Now back in my hometown...suburbia? I'd always feel like someone is watching my every move, waiting to make sure that everyone knows that they're a better parent than I am because they never ever leave their children alone.
I was thinking about this on my walk this morning, but more from the urban/suburban angle. Now of course there will inherently be some SES and racial differences, but nonetheless I think what's okay in some areas is seen as crazy in another.
I grew up in a major urban city, in a decent neighborhood. That said, outside of elementary schools, from middle school onward, most kids had a significant walk and/or caught public transportation to school. I started catching the bus at 10, and often times left for school after my parents did, and was certainly home before them, and expected to get dinner started.
It was the norm for where we were, and it had nothing to do with neglect, schools simply weren't just down the street. I didn't go to my neighborhood school, but even if I did, would likely have still caught the bus or had a decent 20 minute walk. I just looked up where I went to school, and it says it's only 5 miles away, but seemed longer than that when I was going. Once I started catching the bus to school, I caught the bus to after school activities and other places. I always stopped at the store on the way home. , Anyway, I think in urban areas sometimes, people are always out, no matter what time of day, and people know who you and your child are, even if you've never spoken. It's like "Oh, that's Mary's son/daughter", so I think there's this sense of a kid being okay running to the store or whatever, and many times it's out of necessity.
Whereas in suburbia, people have gotten so used to adult supervision being around that, seeing a kid without it, to many is tantamount to neglect or cause for suspicion.
What it really boils down to, is I think people need to stop thinking their way is the only way, and anything else is neglectful.
I too grew up in a family where it was necessary for my sister and I to be "latchkey" kids. We got ourselves onto the bus in the morning and back to an empty house after school. However, we had a strong sense of neighborhood where we lived. I knew who should be home if I needed help, I was pretty responsible as a child, and called my mom at work after we got off of the bus so she knew we made it home and just to check in about our days. We would have a snack, and watch tv for a little before my dad got home.
My DD is getting close to 7, and so this particular story intrigues me. She plays outside without our watching her with her friends all the time. And has gained this independence gradually over the past couple of summers. They have boundaries and stay within them and the parents in the neighborhood all feel the same way about this freedom. (Well aside from one helicopter mom. but that is another story.) When the kids end up in our yard, I make regular checks on them to make sure they are not doing anything stupid (riding chairs down the slide). But they are given the freedom to work out their problems on their own.
Anyway, my rambling has a point. I feel like my kid is pretty close to the point where I could leave her home alone for 30 minutes to run to get something and let her sit and watch a show with instructions on what to do and making sure a neighbor is home for her to get help if she needs it.
My kids have played independently in a cul-de-sac that is only partially visible from our house since they were 5. They will literally be out of the house for hours at a time. They know all the rules and we know we can trust them to abide by the rules. On the rare occasion there has been an infraction, privileges have been revoked.
Obviously this wouldn't work for everyone, but that's the point. Every situation is different, and we are fortunate that ours is such that we can do this.