And kids never ever come downstairs when they hear something. And bullets definitely cannot go through walls or ceilings.
Even with civilian training, hell even with trained law enforcement training, by-standers are very frequently shot.
You cannot say with 100% certainty you would absolutely only hit your target.
And a wide array of gun death statistics would support that.
We're all on the same floor. 2 of my kids still sleep in cribs, which at this point in time they've never escaped from, and the oldest could have walked out. But I wasn't going to randomly whip around and shoot my kid because he came out of his bedroom. My gun was held facing the floor at all times while walking through the house.
No, I can't say that I wouldn't hit only my target, but I can guarantee that I wouldn't hit my kids in this instance.
Look, I'm not some asshole walking through the grocery store with a gun strapped to my hip. Please refocus your attempts. You are insulting me as a caregiver and mother to my children by implying that I do not keep them safe simply by having a gun in the residence. I absolutely 100% do not make the choice to have firearms in my home lightly. Firearms are kept in a separate safe from ammunition, which is also kept in a safe. Not only do my kids not know about our firearms, but they don't even know that there are safes in the closet in our room. I understand that you disagree with having them in the home at all, but you asked why people own handguns. I told you why. I also stated that 99% of the time, I would not (and neither would anybody else) have the opportunity to take the gun and ammo out of the safe prior to this instance, it was certainly an extenuating set of circumstances. I also stated that I am ok with there being no semiautomatic firearms for civilians, which, yes, would even include my handguns. What would you do in my situation? Call the police, gather up 3 kids from the dead of sleep and huddle in the bathroom?
In this case, did the guys on the other side of the door know you had a weapon? Could they see the gun in your hand through a window or something?
We're all on the same floor. 2 of my kids still sleep in cribs, which at this point in time they've never escaped from, and the oldest could have walked out. But I wasn't going to randomly whip around and shoot my kid because he came out of his bedroom. My gun was held facing the floor at all times while walking through the house.
No, I can't say that I wouldn't hit only my target, but I can guarantee that I wouldn't hit my kids in this instance.
Look, I'm not some asshole walking through the grocery store with a gun strapped to my hip. Please refocus your attempts. You are insulting me as a caregiver and mother to my children by implying that I do not keep them safe simply by having a gun in the residence. I absolutely 100% do not make the choice to have firearms in my home lightly. Firearms are kept in a separate safe from ammunition, which is also kept in a safe. Not only do my kids not know about our firearms, but they don't even know that there are safes in the closet in our room. I understand that you disagree with having them in the home at all, but you asked why people own handguns. I told you why. I also stated that 99% of the time, I would not (and neither would anybody else) have the opportunity to take the gun and ammo out of the safe prior to this instance, it was certainly an extenuating set of circumstances. I also stated that I am ok with there being no semiautomatic firearms for civilians, which, yes, would even include my handguns. What would you do in my situation? Call the police, gather up 3 kids from the dead of sleep and huddle in the bathroom?
The plain cold hard fact is, your children are more likely to die by gunfire because you have a gun in your home. Period. So honestly -- yes. Your children are less safe.
Less safe than a home without guns, I can agree to, simply because it's a matter of statistics. Someone cannot die in one fashion if that option is not an option, I get that. But with having guns in the home, they are as safe as can possibly be. I don't know if I'm making any sense or if I'm too emotionally involved at this point. I know that having the guns in the home is a (albeit very slim in my home) risk that we take. I keep them as locked up as possible. Reading the article I earlier talked about really made me question our handgun ownership at all. It is still something I question, like right now for example. But in the meantime I know that they are so safely stored I do not worry. My kids are too young and small for them to have the slim chance of being able to get into the safe, get into the other safe, load the weapon, chamber a round, and do something. They cannot even get to the safe at this point in their life. As they age I honestly see the handguns becoming obsolete in our homes; it is not a risk that I am willing to take. Again, I don't know if I'm making sense or articulating what I'm saying very well here at all. I really hope I'm not coming off as ignorant.
Using the phrase "blowing us away" does not inspire in me confidence in your ability to correctly assess a stressful situation. I mean, why not just add a "Yippie kai yay, motherfucker!" to that?
To be fair, AR used that phrase first. But I agree with gozf - this shit is making me kinda twitchy.
Post by lyssbobiss, Command, B613 on Sept 30, 2014 16:41:03 GMT -5
Ew. Feeling like you need a gun in a crowd for protection reeks of paranoia and borderline mental illness. I'm just imagining being someplace like Oktoberfest and thinking "thank god I've got my piece. These bitches better watch out if these beer lines get too long."
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
We're all on the same floor. 2 of my kids still sleep in cribs, which at this point in time they've never escaped from, and the oldest could have walked out. But I wasn't going to randomly whip around and shoot my kid because he came out of his bedroom. My gun was held facing the floor at all times while walking through the house.
No, I can't say that I wouldn't hit only my target, but I can guarantee that I wouldn't hit my kids in this instance.
Look, I'm not some asshole walking through the grocery store with a gun strapped to my hip. Please refocus your attempts. You are insulting me as a caregiver and mother to my children by implying that I do not keep them safe simply by having a gun in the residence. I absolutely 100% do not make the choice to have firearms in my home lightly. Firearms are kept in a separate safe from ammunition, which is also kept in a safe. Not only do my kids not know about our firearms, but they don't even know that there are safes in the closet in our room. I understand that you disagree with having them in the home at all, but you asked why people own handguns. I told you why. I also stated that 99% of the time, I would not (and neither would anybody else) have the opportunity to take the gun and ammo out of the safe prior to this instance, it was certainly an extenuating set of circumstances. I also stated that I am ok with there being no semiautomatic firearms for civilians, which, yes, would even include my handguns. What would you do in my situation? Call the police, gather up 3 kids from the dead of sleep and huddle in the bathroom?
In this case, did the guys on the other side of the door know you had a weapon? Could they see the gun in your hand through a window or something?
I still don't know why they came to my door. I think they were there to collect a debt of some sort, but through my firm answers that who they were looking for did not live here and never had lived here as far as I know, as well as we don't receive their mail, they decided to leave. The police said it was an unconventional way to collect a debt and I was more than justified in calling them and being worried about who they were.
I agree that it is not just about gun control. But gun control *can* be implemented.
Is your neighbourhood particularly known for this sort of instance? I'm just trying to wrap my head around this. I live in a mid-line crime neighbourhood where we have break-ins regularly, lots of other smaller crime, etc and I just can't fathom the idea of loading a gun for the purpose of protection. I've held guns, I've been in relationships with police officers, I've been to shooting ranges and it actually makes me weak in the knees to think that I would be actually powerful holding a gun in my hand if someone was breaking in. Are you actually prepared to pull the trigger?
We have a very high drug problem, as well as gangs and crime. My sister is a former heroin addict, only 125 days-ish clean. I do not know who knows where I live, if she owes money to someone, and what she has told people about things I own, our finances, my children, etc. She is clean now, but that doesn't change what she may have said in the past. My dad had his house broken into by her "friends" at one point, but he wasn't home. My sister does not know we own firearms, before people start speculating that we're going to be burglarized because she advertised that. It is a very hard thing to do to have to gather up possessions, hide them, and lock them all up before she can come to our house. She was not above stealing to fund her habit. She also wasn't allowed at my house until my painkillers, some of which were opiates, were completely gone after my c-section last November. We are moving soon, fwiw.
Less safe than a home without guns, I can agree to, simply because it's a matter of statistics. Someone cannot die in one fashion if that option is not an option, I get that. But with having guns in the home, they are as safe as can possibly be. I don't know if I'm making any sense or if I'm too emotionally involved at this point. I know that having the guns in the home is a (albeit very slim in my home) risk that we take. I keep them as locked up as possible. Reading the article I earlier talked about really made me question our handgun ownership at all. It is still something I question, like right now for example. But in the meantime I know that they are so safely stored I do not worry. My kids are too young and small for them to have the slim chance of being able to get into the safe, get into the other safe, load the weapon, chamber a round, and do something. They cannot even get to the safe at this point in their life. As they age I honestly see the handguns becoming obsolete in our homes; it is not a risk that I am willing to take. Again, I don't know if I'm making sense or articulating what I'm saying very well here at all. I really hope I'm not coming off as ignorant.
I'm honestly glad you're able to see that it might be necessary to re-evaluate as the children get older. This scares me on a daily basis when I send KHC to someone's house, and I ask parents if they have guns before he goes somewhere. And as they get to be teenagers, the suicide rate jumps, and it skyrockets if there's a gun in the home; that scares me too.
I don't know if you were still in the NoVa area in 1997, but a friend of mine was shot by his best friend. They were both 14, both boy scouts (nearly Eagle scouts) and DEFINITELY "knew better." Teenage boys especially worry me.
Less safe than a home without guns, I can agree to, simply because it's a matter of statistics. Someone cannot die in one fashion if that option is not an option, I get that. But with having guns in the home, they are as safe as can possibly be. I don't know if I'm making any sense or if I'm too emotionally involved at this point. I know that having the guns in the home is a (albeit very slim in my home) risk that we take. I keep them as locked up as possible. Reading the article I earlier talked about really made me question our handgun ownership at all. It is still something I question, like right now for example. But in the meantime I know that they are so safely stored I do not worry. My kids are too young and small for them to have the slim chance of being able to get into the safe, get into the other safe, load the weapon, chamber a round, and do something. They cannot even get to the safe at this point in their life. As they age I honestly see the handguns becoming obsolete in our homes; it is not a risk that I am willing to take. Again, I don't know if I'm making sense or articulating what I'm saying very well here at all. I really hope I'm not coming off as ignorant.
I'm honestly glad you're able to see that it might be necessary to re-evaluate as the children get older. This scares me on a daily basis when I send KHC to someone's house, and I ask parents if they have guns before he goes somewhere. And as they get to be teenagers, the suicide rate jumps, and it skyrockets if there's a gun in the home; that scares me too.
Absolutely. I re-evaluate on a near daily basis, and today is getting a heavy dose of reflection. We do not have playdates at our home, but I would absolutely offer up the information and even show parents our "set up" (for lack of a better term) if they asked. I even ask my FIL, my BIL, etc. about guns before we go to visit. They are the idiots who think kids won't find them, which is why I ask *every* time. When they are teenagers I am sure we will have an even different set up than we currently have.
People who highly fear home invasion, and protect themselves with their loaded at-the-ready handguns, are paranoid. I realize that this is a phobia I have, heightened by the fact that my H is rarely home and my sister is a former addict. But I also have the self awareness to step back and EVALUATE MYSELF and realize I have to reign it in and not be reckless. Most people who have the same paranoia do not have the self awareness. It's all people out to get them, all the time.
tillie's husband, and people like him, scare me too, fwiw. I don't care how many classes or trainings they've had. Which is why I am offended in being called irresponsible; I largely agree with anti-gun people. And in the past few years that hasn't been more true.
Post by cjeanette on Sept 30, 2014 16:53:28 GMT -5
So random- recently at a work event I had a rather drunk co-worker explain to me why I needed to have a gun and know how to use it. He was all "what if an intruder breaks into your house and H isn't home? You know you are probably going to get raped...right?!!"
I live in a city that has pretty much no violent crime. I'll take my chances.
To be fair, AR used that phrase first. But I agree with gozf - this shit is making me kinda twitchy.
I did, because frankly I feel that some random guy who feels the "need" to conceal carry in his everyday life IS highly likely to just blow someone away as opposed to practicing sound judgement in choosing when to use said concealed weapon.
I'm not disagreeing with you. And the idea that people can now conceal carry in my state doesn't make my social anxiety any better, let me tell you.
And this is another case for why the need for stricter gun control. Because common sense does not prevail.
Again,MA does have strict gun control laws and I am for them. I have no problem with strict gun laws.
She's saying your H is dumb. And laws need to be more strict because it's currently legal for dummies to have guns. In public. In crowds. For protection.
We have a very high drug problem, as well as gangs and crime. My sister is a former heroin addict, only 125 days-ish clean. I do not know who knows where I live, if she owes money to someone, and what she has told people about things I own, our finances, my children, etc. She is clean now, but that doesn't change what she may have said in the past. My dad had his house broken into by her "friends" at one point, but he wasn't home. My sister does not know we own firearms, before people start speculating that we're going to be burglarized because she advertised that. It is a very hard thing to do to have to gather up possessions, hide them, and lock them all up before she can come to our house. She was not above stealing to fund her habit. She also wasn't allowed at my house until my painkillers, some of which were opiates, were completely gone after my c-section last November. We are moving soon, fwiw.
Scary. I understand your concern. I still want to know if you are actually prepared to pull the trigger, knowing full well doing so could kill someone.
In this instance, where I could step back from the door and would *know* they were forcibly entering my home and presenting a threat to myself and my kids, yes. At that point we had had a conversation and if they were coming in, there was absolutely no misunderstanding that could be claimed. And I realize that that can easily come off as, well, sickening, that I could take another human's life. I realize that, and I would probably need counseling forever, regardless of how "justified" it may have been. But if the choice was between shooting them and letting them come in just to see what they were going to do to me/my children, I would definitely make that choice.
If I were taken by surprise, no. I even question my ability to shoot at a bear who pops up out of the bushes and thinks we've come between her and her cubs - simply because of the surprise portion. Which is why we don't walk around the woods with an unholstered, loaded weapon, either.
Absolutely. I re-evaluate on a near daily basis, and today is getting a heavy dose of reflection. We do not have playdates at our home, but I would absolutely offer up the information and even show parents our "set up" (for lack of a better term) if they asked. I even ask my FIL, my BIL, etc. about guns before we go to visit. They are the idiots who think kids won't find them, which is why I ask *every* time. When they are teenagers I am sure we will have an even different set up than we currently have.
People who highly fear home invasion, and protect themselves with their loaded at-the-ready handguns, are paranoid. I realize that this is a phobia I have, heightened by the fact that my H is rarely home and my sister is a former addict. But I also have the self awareness to step back and EVALUATE MYSELF and realize I have to reign it in and not be reckless. Most people who have the same paranoia do not have the self awareness. It's all people out to get them, all the time.
tillie's husband, and people like him, scare me too, fwiw. I don't care how many classes or trainings they've had. Which is why I am offended in being called irresponsible; I largely agree with anti-gun people. And in the past few years that hasn't been more true.
I have respect for your stance, even if i don't agree with you. I appreciate that you evaluate and know you will need to re-evaluate later on. I hope you never have to discharge your gun.
Thank you, and me too. Hunting is different, that is ok. But it is a long process, very calculated, etc. etc. But I don't ever want to have to shoot anyone or even some startled bear.
She's saying your H is dumb. And laws need to be more strict because it's currently legal for dummies to have guns. In public. In crowds. For protection.
I ignored that because I know he isn't dumb.
What sort of situation would have to arise before he decide he needed to use his gun in public?
I know! It's attitudes towards guns such as yours and your husbands that scare the ever-loving fuck out of me. You don't really address the mentality behind these big crowds and protecting yourselves. What circumstances would warrant pulling the trigger? And if he only takes it sometimes, why only sometimes?
Because there are laws that don't allow him to bring it to a lot of places. Also places that he knows it will not be able to be secured 100% of the time, or where, frankly, it's not safe to bring it.
How do other countries deal with the black market? AutumnRose25, any insight into Australia?
I'm not sure exactly what your question is.
Is there a black market? Of course.
Does Australia deal with it through heavy punishments for those caught dealing illegal arms? Very much so. There is little to no leniancy, even for non-black market dealers where people either didn't turn over guns in '96 or have obtained unregistered guns.
Is it smaller than in the USA? Yes, largely due to the different geography (we don't have neighboring countries to smuggle through) and less demand (by a smaller population and a population less likely to seek them out).
I will add, that in the vast majority of school shootings in the US, the guns used were not illegal arms, but had originally been bought legally (Lanza used his mother's guns for example)
Another group of deaths that account for many American gun deaths by legally owned guns are suicide, and the murder of spouses and children in DV situations.
And then of course you have the 'accidental' shootings by children of themselves and/or other kids with their parents legal guns too.
So yes, like anything that is restricted black market is an issue, but frankly American's are not being killed by black marked guns in greater numbers than legally obtained ones.
I'm aware of the stats.
If guns are restricted, I wonder what exactly would be the immediate effect on the black market. It is an opportunity to learn from the experience of others.
I know! It's attitudes towards guns such as yours and your husbands that scare the ever-loving fuck out of me. You don't really address the mentality behind these big crowds and protecting yourselves. What circumstances would warrant pulling the trigger? And if he only takes it sometimes, why only sometimes?
Because there are laws that don't allow him to bring it to a lot of places. Also places that he knows it will not be able to be secured 100% of the time, or where, frankly, it's not safe to bring it.
How does he decide it's not safe to bring? What are the parameters?