Another IEP related question

[stephm0188]

PDQ. At what point should I start asking about seeing a draft? Meeting is Monday and I've yet to see anything.  I have a reputation for being difficult now, so I don't want to be *that* parent. But at the same time, I'd kind of like to have time to see the draft before being expected to sign. 

[grover]

We mail out draft goals 10 days prior to meeting.

[redheadk]

Sept 30, 2014 21:35:51 GMT -5 stephm0188 said:

.

It's perfectly fine to say that you'd like a day to think things over before signing. Don't feel like you have to sign just because most people normally do sign right there.

[stephm0188]

poof

[auntie]

You should have the results of any evals 10 days prior.

I always make sure they get my draft of educational concerns well before the meeting is scheduled. Occasionally, I have included sample goals from time to time- some IEP custodians are lazy/harried and happy to allow this.

Keep in mind that the IEP meeting is where you write the IEP, if you don't like something, speak up then. If you sign it and it isn't working, re-open it.

Refusing to sign in advance isn't generally seen as colloboration with the team. I didn't sign about half the time. I generally blamed it on DS's psych wanting to vet it.

[Captain Serious]

Around here, you don't get a draft IEP until the meeting. Some places, I've heard, don't even come to the meeting with a draft, but create it after the meeting, based on what is said and discussed in the meeting. To be honest, I prefer any system that considers a draft just that--something that can be changed based on the team discussion.

There is no legal requirement that you get a draft before the meeting. If your school is treating you differently now that you asserted your right to wait before signing, I would be VERY careful. Not so I don't piss them off, but because I'd be very wary of what they were trying to sneak past me and why they are opposed to the very reasonable request that I actually get to read over the draft alone and consider it without the team hovering over me.

Their behavior here is shady, not yours, and I think it's okay to be THAT mom in this situation. Who else is going to look after your child's best interests?

[justdance]

I really think this is state/district specific. In my school we don't typically send home IEP drafts or evaluation reports before the actual IEP meeting. You definitely have the choice to sign at the meeting or sign at a later date, but the longer you take to sign, the longer your child will begin receiving special education services. The system we use now doesn't even require parental signature anymore unless it's an Initial IEP.

[Captain Serious]

Oct 1, 2014 6:22:52 GMT -5 auntie said:

Refusing to sign in advance isn't generally seen as colloboration with the team. I didn't sign about half the time. I generally blamed it on DS's psych wanting to vet it.

But this attitude (from the team, not you, auntie) is such bull shit. The team members get time alone to consider what the want to put on the IEP, write it and revise it. Why should parents not get the same consideration? Must parents walk into a ton and are handed a 40 page document for the first time. They can't read it, because the case manager or someone is coming over "what it says" (rather than just giving the parent a chance to read through it), and by the time everyone is done talking, the parent is expected to sign a legally binding document--one that they are loath to reopen a discussion about or change, because *then* they might *really* be seen as a trouble maker.

Anyone who thinks parents aren't collaborative because they want to take the time to read through an IEP seems like *they* don't really *want* the parents' involvement at all.

[Captain Serious]

Oct 1, 2014 6:42:31 GMT -5 justdance said:

I really think this is state/district specific. In my school we don't typically send home IEP drafts or evaluation reports before the actual IEP meeting. You definitely have the choice to sign at the meeting or sign at a later date, but the longer you take to sign, the longer your child will begin receiving special education services. The system we use now doesn't even require parental signature anymore unless it's an Initial IEP.

The law requires that evaluations are sent home a certain number of days prior to the eligibility/IEP meeting. I believe auntie mentioned it's 10 days.

Also the law states that if a parent doesn't sign an IEP or reject it and continue working with the team in a specified number of days (I am not sure if it's also 10 or a bit longer), the IEP goes into affect without their signature.

I'm almost certain both of these are part of IDEA, and not state laws, so they do not differ regionally/locally.

[redheadk]

Oct 1, 2014 6:57:06 GMT -5 TR said:

redheadk - PDQ means Please Don't Quote.

Omg, I totally overlooked that. Thank you, I redacted the quote. I hate when people do that.

[marissa]

I never sign at meetings. Depends on the state you live in. In nj we need to have all reports 10 days prior to the meeting but iep drafts aren't part of that. We don't have to have the ahead of time. I ask for them so I can see what they are proposing. Nj law says an iep must be rejected before the 15th day or it goes into effect even if parents don't sign. A signature is only required on the initial iep.

[hopecounts]

ideally the IEP is written collaboratively at the meeting so that all members if the team (including the parents) can be involved in goal setting.
Our team uses a blank worksheet with various blocks (OT/Cognitive/Speech/self care) and we discuss each area and the primary team member for that area makes suggestions which we discuss.
the results of the evals should be sent prior to the meeting.
and I never sign at the meeting, the first year DH couldn't come so I used the DH would like to see it first excuse to feel them out, no one had any issues so this year I just said we would like to take the night to review it. 

[Captain Serious]

Oct 1, 2014 7:56:28 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

ideally the IEP is written collaboratively at the meeting so that all members if the team (including the parents) can be involved in goal setting.
Our team uses a blank worksheet with various blocks (OT/Cognitive/Speech/self care) and we discuss each area and the primary team member for that area makes suggestions which we discuss.
the results of the evals should be sent prior to the meeting.
and I never sign at the meeting, the first year DH couldn't come so I used the DH would like to see it first excuse to feel them out, no one had any issues so this year I just said we would like to take the night to review it. 

This is awesome, but so rarely happens.

[auntie]

Oct 1, 2014 6:47:26 GMT -5 Captain Serious said:

Oct 1, 2014 6:22:52 GMT -5 auntie said:

Refusing to sign in advance isn't generally seen as colloboration with the team. I didn't sign about half the time. I generally blamed it on DS's psych wanting to vet it.

But this attitude (from the team, not you, auntie) is such bull shit. The team members get time alone to consider what the want to put on the IEP, write it and revise it. Why should parents not get the same consideration? Must parents walk into a ton and are handed a 40 page document for the first time. They can't read it, because the case manager or someone is coming over "what it says" (rather than just giving the parent a chance to read through it), and by the time everyone is done talking, the parent is expected to sign a legally binding document--one that they are loath to reopen a discussion about or change, because *then* they might *really* be seen as a trouble maker.

Anyone who thinks parents aren't collaborative because they want to take the time to read through an IEP seems like *they* don't really *want* the parents' involvement at all.

I agree 100% on this. But when someone goes into the process and says they aren't going to sign 6 months out- I'm guessing before the evals have even been planned, I can see where it would feel contentious to the rest of the team. For a first or complicated IEP it should be assumed, not stated. I think as parents become more seasoned as CST-members, they usually approach the process with a list of what services are non-negotiable and which can be added later if needed.

I think a big factor, as well, is the nature of the IEP being drafted. My kid's a pretty complex creature- he was classified under 3 different catagories on his middle school IEPs- Autism, Specific LD and S& L Impaired. I didn't feel the need to add OHI which was really what most of his IEP addressed during that time. I had to look at suggestions for psychs, sped teachers, gen'l ed teachers, SLP and make sure there was no conflict- where an accommodation for one issue might interfere with interventions for something else. 

But for kids whose IEPs are fairly simple- SLT for articulation for instance, I don't see why there's a need to withold the signature as a statement. I kind of laugh when some of the local parents here make a staement of reviewing a child's GIEP (in PA GATE is under sped and they get an IEP) since they are so generic for the most part.

[Captain Serious]

I didn't get the impression that she told them six months before the meeting that she wouldn't sign the IEP. I asked that she was presented an IEP then, and didn't sign at the meeting, and is now revisiting that plan. It seemed to me like both in April and now, she was in a position to sign an IEP (or changes to an IEP), and not that she just stated in advance that she wouldn't be signing. Now I'm curious.

But, even if she did state it that far in advance, don't school administrators pretty much understand that the first thing parents new to the special ed process is told is not to sign at the meeting, but to take some time to review the document? Shouldn't that be a standard expectation? Why would they get so bent out of shape over it?

I hate that there is so much pressure on parents to appear collaborative, when they are at such a disadvantage in the process. Parents are afraid to advocate for their kids or make waves, because they know doing so might negatively affect their children's education.

[karmasabiotch]

I didn't get a draft until I went to the meeting which is why I refused to sign it that day. I needed time to think.

[stephm0188]

poof

[aussiecrush]

The school psychologist is hoping to get the report to me a few days in advance, which isn't required. She thinks springing it on parents in a meeting full of people is cruel. If we get a preview I might be prepared to sign, but I'm not worried about being "that mom" if I have to. They get 60 days to assess and prepare findings, if they can't wait one night so we can think and talk it out I'm not the problem.

[Captain Serious]

You should be frustrated. I have no doubt you didn't get an advance copy of the IEP this time, even though that had been their standard practice up until now, because they didn't want to to you of to the fact that they dropped services.

Do NOT be afraid to advocate strongly here. You saying you wouldn't sign at the last meeting was not the reason everything went south; they had already decided to drop the services before that.

Have they explained why they think the services are no longer required? I think they have to. I would request an evaluation, and possibly an independent evaluation, to determine if your child still had needs in these areas before the IEP goes into effect.

I believe that until a new plan is in place, they have to honor the existing one, but I don't know how this works in cases where the old IEP expired. Can someone else speak to this? Do they have to provide everything that was in the old IEP until the new one is agreed upon?

[stephm0188]

poof

[Captain Serious]

Yes, the process does suck.

The school is only required to provide PT if his deficits affect his education. If he had other PT needs, they could be addressed by private therapy. If you believe that the current school support is not sufficient, I urge you to keep fighting. Schools cutting costs when the services are still necessary bank on the parents not having the will to fight to the end. I'd you believe your child really needs and is entitled to the therapy, I'd fight for it.

[redwino]

Oct 1, 2014 6:52:18 GMT -5 Captain Serious said:

Oct 1, 2014 6:42:31 GMT -5 justdance said:

I really think this is state/district specific. In my school we don't typically send home IEP drafts or evaluation reports before the actual IEP meeting. You definitely have the choice to sign at the meeting or sign at a later date, but the longer you take to sign, the longer your child will begin receiving special education services. The system we use now doesn't even require parental signature anymore unless it's an Initial IEP.

The law requires that evaluations are sent home a certain number of days prior to the eligibility/IEP meeting. I believe auntie mentioned it's 10 days.

Also the law states that if a parent doesn't sign an IEP or reject it and continue working with the team in a specified number of days (I am not sure if it's also 10 or a bit longer), the IEP goes into affect without their signature.

I'm almost certain both of these are part of IDEA, and not state laws, so they do not differ regionally/locally.

I've never heard the 10 day requirement for evaluations in my state. 10 days for notification of meeting but no reports have to be given at that time.

[stephm0188]

Yeah, I argued that his PT needs do affect his education. They say "No, he can access the building and that's all that PT is for."

But even if I fought for it and got it, I still don't want her working with him :\

[stephm0188]

School based :\

[open24hours]

Oct 1, 2014 6:52:18 GMT -5 Captain Serious said:

Oct 1, 2014 6:42:31 GMT -5 justdance said:

I really think this is state/district specific. In my school we don't typically send home IEP drafts or evaluation reports before the actual IEP meeting. You definitely have the choice to sign at the meeting or sign at a later date, but the longer you take to sign, the longer your child will begin receiving special education services. The system we use now doesn't even require parental signature anymore unless it's an Initial IEP.

The law requires that evaluations are sent home a certain number of days prior to the eligibility/IEP meeting. I believe auntie mentioned it's 10 days.

Also the law states that if a parent doesn't sign an IEP or reject it and continue working with the team in a specified number of days (I am not sure if it's also 10 or a bit longer), the IEP goes into affect without their signature.

I'm almost certain both of these are part of IDEA, and not state laws, so they do not differ regionally/locally.

I rarely post in special ed threads, but this is absolutely false information. There is no legal requirement in IDEIA to send a draft home in advance. Additionally, the IEP does not go into effect without a parent signature, ever (well unless the parent doesn't sign, the district files for due process and then wins). 

[Captain Serious]

No, it's not about whether or not he can access the building, it's about whether or not his physical needs are getting in the way of his education. Education for being the academic, to building and maintaining appropriate social relationships. If you believe his needs in these areas are not being meet, request another evaluation. If it's an independent evaluation, you may have to pay for it.

Don't worry about who his therapist would be, cross that bridge when you come to it. I wouldn't lose all confidence in her as a therapist of she works well with your soon based on this alone, either. She may be an excellent therapist who's being pressured to drop these services for administrative reasons completely unrelated to your son.

[Captain Serious]

Oct 1, 2014 13:44:23 GMT -5 open24hours said:

Oct 1, 2014 6:52:18 GMT -5 Captain Serious said:

The law requires that evaluations are sent home a certain number of days prior to the eligibility/IEP meeting. I believe auntie mentioned it's 10 days.

Also the law states that if a parent doesn't sign an IEP or reject it and continue working with the team in a specified number of days (I am not sure if it's also 10 or a bit longer), the IEP goes into affect without their signature.

I'm almost certain both of these are part of IDEA, and not state laws, so they do not differ regionally/locally.

I rarely post in special ed threads, but this is absolutely false information. There is no legal requirement in IDEIA to send a draft home in advance. Additionally, the IEP does not go into effect without a parent signature, ever (well unless the parent doesn't sign, the district files for due process and then wins). 

First, I didn't say there is a requirement for the IEP to be sent home, I said there was a requirement for parents to have *evaluations* prior to eligibility and/or IEP meetings.

Secondly, after the initial IEP, which is what we are discussing, plans can go into effect without the parents' signature. This is from Wright's Law:

"The federal special education law and regulations do not require a child’s parent to sign the IEP.  Parents are required to give informed consent before the school can provide services in the initial IEP, but not subsequent IEPs.

- Some state regulations include a provision for parents to sign the IEP to indicate their consent. Many states do not, because the federal law and regulations do not require this.

- Other states require written consent to implement IEPs on a year-to-year basis."

[hopecounts]

Remember that accessing break/PE is also part of his school access. so if he struggles in either area you can make that a PT goal (he will be able to do X on the playground with peers)

[Captain Serious]

Okay, I just looked it up, and, according to Wright's Law, whether or not evaluations must be given to parents in advance is determined at the state level, but if a parent asks, evaluations must be shared in a timely manner, within 45 days under the federal right to inspect records: www.wrightslaw.com/blog/?p=67.