If your parent got a part time min wage job

[y4m]

Many of you know my ILs are not great with money.  We just found out that MIL has taken a part time minimum wage job for extra money.  It requires her to be on her feet ~20 hours/week, but her health is not good.  This is in addition to her 40-hour/week office job.  

Of course this prompted us to dig deeper and they are having money issues again.  To the tune of "More than 10K but less than $20K" in CC debt.  They don't live extravagantly, but they do just generally make bad choices.  Like putting $1000 on a CC to fix my teenage BIL's car, even though it's worth like $500 and he could walk to school.  And they have an income problem in general--FIL was laid off from his long term blue collar job a year or so ago and he's been cobbling together a living with lower wage jobs since.  Plus these pointless student loans they have been deferring forever are once again coming due.

On one hand - @#$%^@$ing come to us first before you run up a bunch of debt - you get yourself out of this!
On the other - We can't stand the idea of MIL working 70 hour weeks.  We could write a check to replace the income from this job with little impact to our bottom line.

It seems like the time where we have to support them is closer than I thought.  

Anyway.  Thoughts?  Commiseration?  Would you let your parent work for minimum wage or just write this check?  Or something else?

[Deleted]

Eek. I guess for me, the decision would be based on whether or not extra help would actually help them, or just mean they blow more money. If you gave them a check to cover the extra job, would it get them out of debt and keep them there, or would they just assume they have more money in general and end up in debt again?

I would not support them if it's a lifestyle issue thing, but I think I would support them if they just really were doing their best to make ends meet and just couldn't.

[nomad100]

I don't know what I would so because I sometimes feel like we will end up supporting MIL one day and it chaps my ass since she would have plenty of money to retire on if she didn't send it off to her shifty cousins with their million sob stories. (sorry, sidetracked).

I guess I would say that if you want to send this money to them forever, then go for it. But realize that you will likely never be able to stop sending it and the amount will likely increase since they know you will bail them out.

[y4m]

Nov 3, 2014 14:03:40 GMT -5 @buckybells said:

Eek. I guess for me, the decision would be based on whether or not extra help would actually help them, or just mean they blow more money. If you gave them a check to cover the extra job, would it get them out of debt and keep them there, or would they just assume they have more money in general and end up in debt again?

I would not support them if it's a lifestyle issue thing, but I think I would support them if they just really were doing their best to make ends meet and just couldn't.

I think it's a combination of trying to make ends meet and failing and dumb choices.  It's frustrating because when we went through this a few years ago, we made them a budget and set them up with an efund that would have avoided this, but they didn't/couldn't stick to it.  But then there are things like getting glasses from the optometrist instead of online that just make me think WHYYYY?  

[y4m]

Our long term plan, BTW, is to buy a second property in their hometown where it is cheap and let them live in it.

[y4m]

Nov 3, 2014 14:08:33 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

Eta - I get my glasses from the optometrist, too.  Am I about to be a MM pariah ?

Well unless your eyes are super special, you could save a few hundred bucks potentially.

Tell me you at least buy tires online.  That's another one.

[ssmjlm]

I remember when you went through this the last time. Honestly I woul dprobably let her work and see how it goes. Maybe it's a step in the right direction? Maybe working that much will help them see they need to change their expenses instead of income?

What does your DH say?

[y4m]

Nov 3, 2014 14:14:05 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

What does your DH say?

We are both about equal parts Frustrated and Sympathetic, with a twist of uncomfortable with the idea of MIL working for $7.50 an hour when we live such comfortable lives.  So totally on the same page, but that page is "not exactly sure what to do"  

[havarti]

Nov 3, 2014 14:11:57 GMT -5 y4m said:

Nov 3, 2014 14:08:33 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

Eta - I get my glasses from the optometrist, too.  Am I about to be a MM pariah ?

Well unless your eyes are super special, you could save a few hundred bucks potentially.

Tell me you at least buy tires online.  That's another one.

I didn't know about this.  Who installs the tires?  How much money do you save?

[ssmjlm]

Nov 3, 2014 14:16:41 GMT -5 y4m said:

Nov 3, 2014 14:14:05 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

What does your DH say?

We are both about equal parts Frustrated and Sympathetic, with a twist of uncomfortable with the idea of MIL working for $7.50 an hour when we live such comfortable lives.  So totally on the same page, but that page is "not exactly sure what to do"  

Maybe agree to give it until the 1st of the year? 



Uh we buy our tires at costco, man I thought we were doing ok there.

[y4m]

You can buy them from tirerack.com and have them delivered to a local installer they partner with in just a day or two. I recall saving $150 or so the last time, but admittedly it has been awhile.

ETA: Costco is probably ok.  Maybe for both glasses and tires.

[msmerymac]

My mom took a part time job last Christmas season at her favorite clothing store. She has a day job, but works the part time job usually on weekends and maybe 1 extra night per week.

I never thought it was poor form for me to "let" her do that.  (huh) Her husband is retired, but takes assignments here and there from home and works on some really interesting amateur historical research, which he has published, but isn't necessarily a paying job. He is GOOD with money. My mom is not. She wants a clothing discount, and she wants to spend her extra income on clothes, jewelry, and other things she wants, so basically more control of her own discretionary budget. As long as she can do it (she's 60), I'm not concerned. I'd be more concerned if she retired early, frankly, because she wouldn't be able to afford that. The more money she brings in now the less I have to support her later.

[Deleted]

Nov 3, 2014 14:11:57 GMT -5 y4m said:

Nov 3, 2014 14:08:33 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

Eta - I get my glasses from the optometrist, too.  Am I about to be a MM pariah ?

Well unless your eyes are super special, you could save a few hundred bucks potentially.

Tell me you at least buy tires online.  That's another one.

Unless this has been pointed out to them, this is the kind of thing that a lot of people (older people, especially) don't know is a possibility. My mom works for an optometrist but had never heard of Zenni, the same with Tire Rack and my dad who worked with cars for a living.

[y4m]

Nov 3, 2014 14:19:33 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

My mom took a part time job last Christmas season at her favorite clothing store. She has a day job, but works the part time job usually on weekends and maybe 1 extra night per week.

I never thought it was poor form for me to "let" her do that.  (huh) Her husband is retired, but takes assignments here and there from home and works on some really interesting amateur historical research, which he has published, but isn't necessarily a paying job. He is GOOD with money. My mom is not. She wants a clothing discount, and she wants to spend her extra income on clothes, jewelry, and other things she wants, so basically more control of her own discretionary budget. As long as she can do it (she's 60), I'm not concerned. I'd be more concerned if she retired early, frankly, because she wouldn't be able to afford that. The more money she brings in now the less I have to support her later.

I wouldn't have any issue with this--in fact I'm always encouraging my mom to go work in a winery just because she'd love it.  But working for a hobby and spending money is different than working because you can't pay your bills, I think.

[L]

I'd be really happy that they were doing something to take care of the debt themselves rather than immediately asking for handouts.  And I'd be really hesitant to do anything that would discourage that type of thinking in the future, because this does sound like it's been a recurring issue.

[Deleted]

As for actually answering your question, I'd probably rehash the budget/savings issue first, before offering any additional financial help. Credit cards aren't a way of adding to cash flow, they're for emergencies only and new glasses aren't an emergency unless they're broken and unable to be fixed, rinse repeat.

I wouldn't want my mom working a minimum wage job, but my parents are in a different financial place than your ILs. If that's what she/they needed to do to get or stay out of debt, she would.
I guess I can't help but think that using credit as a crutch is going to be an ongoing cycle, and you're going to spend a lot of money fixing these mistakes over and over. Could you have them put a block on their credit, but have you/your H as the contact person if an attempt to open a new card is made?

[Deleted]

Do not give money to people who are bad with money. It won't help the core issue.

[ESF]

Without knowing what kind of health she's in or what her full time job is, there's one thing to think about: does working these kind of hours run the risk of exacerbating her health problems to the point where she risks being unable to work at all and/or accelerating the time when that day is likely? If so, then I would say that working those hours might be more financially devastating to them in the long run than not working them.

Other than that, I have no advice and I'm sorry you are in this situation. You are an amazing daughter in law.

[ESF]

Nov 3, 2014 14:22:38 GMT -5 y4m said:

Nov 3, 2014 14:19:33 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

My mom took a part time job last Christmas season at her favorite clothing store. She has a day job, but works the part time job usually on weekends and maybe 1 extra night per week.

I never thought it was poor form for me to "let" her do that.  (huh) Her husband is retired, but takes assignments here and there from home and works on some really interesting amateur historical research, which he has published, but isn't necessarily a paying job. He is GOOD with money. My mom is not. She wants a clothing discount, and she wants to spend her extra income on clothes, jewelry, and other things she wants, so basically more control of her own discretionary budget. As long as she can do it (she's 60), I'm not concerned. I'd be more concerned if she retired early, frankly, because she wouldn't be able to afford that. The more money she brings in now the less I have to support her later.

I wouldn't have any issue with this--in fact I'm always encouraging my mom to go work in a winery just because she'd love it.  But working for a hobby and spending money is different than working because you can't pay your bills, I think.

And I agree here.  My father works part time as a bartender and he loves it. The extra money is helpful to my parents, but not necessary for them to life comfortably.  I feel no guilt.  Two different things.

[Deleted]

Honestly for me it isn't about what I would do. My parents, especially my dad are very proud people. There is not a chance in hell he would take money from one of his children, even if we could afford it.

[y4m]

Nov 3, 2014 14:34:37 GMT -5 ESF said:

Without knowing what kind of health she's in or what her full time job is, there's one thing to think about: does working these kind of hours run the risk of exacerbating her health problems to the point where she risks being unable to work at all and/or accelerating the time when that day is likely? If so, then I would say that working those hours might be more financially devastating to them in the long run than not working them.

Other than that, I have no advice and I'm sorry you are in this situation. You are an amazing daughter in law.

This is a very good point.  We NEED her to be able to stay working as long as possible.

[y4m]

Nov 3, 2014 14:28:19 GMT -5 @mrsspunky said:

Could you have them put a block on their credit, but have you/your H as the contact person if an attempt to open a new card is made?

I think to the extent that we decide to help, we will be firm about the fact that credit reports will be run regularly and we will have access to their bank accounts.  They agreed to this before, but DH fell down on that job (and lord knows I want nothing to do with it).


Some of this spending was because of an injury my SIL sustained in an accident, and we are working on get them legal remedy for that as well.  I think the bulk of any settlement should be for SIL, but she'd readily pay her parents back their out of pocket medical expenses, which are probably $5-$10K.

[Poppy]

Nov 3, 2014 14:14:30 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

Nov 3, 2014 14:11:57 GMT -5 y4m said:

Well unless your eyes are super special, you could save a few hundred bucks potentially.

Tell me you at least buy tires online.  That's another one.

Well, it was nice knowing you! Too bad about burning the ML bridge the other day... There's always Book Club!

[Poppy]

Nov 3, 2014 14:29:10 GMT -5 @bk said:

Do not give money to people who are bad with money. It won't help the core issue.

I am kind of in this camp... I mean, maybe there's some other alternative but in my own MIL experience, it just extends the problem.

[LoveTrains]

Nov 3, 2014 14:08:25 GMT -5 y4m said:

Nov 3, 2014 14:03:40 GMT -5 @buckybells said:

Eek. I guess for me, the decision would be based on whether or not extra help would actually help them, or just mean they blow more money. If you gave them a check to cover the extra job, would it get them out of debt and keep them there, or would they just assume they have more money in general and end up in debt again?

I would not support them if it's a lifestyle issue thing, but I think I would support them if they just really were doing their best to make ends meet and just couldn't.

I think it's a combination of trying to make ends meet and failing and dumb choices.  It's frustrating because when we went through this a few years ago, we made them a budget and set them up with an efund that would have avoided this, but they didn't/couldn't stick to it.  But then there are things like getting glasses from the optometrist instead of online that just make me think WHYYYY?  

In their defense, I have never ordered glasses online because the pupilary distance thing is hard to figure out and I couldn't get it from my prescription. So there are some things where I can see that hey wouldn't be comfortable, and getting glasses right is important. 

[LoveTrains]

Nov 3, 2014 14:19:44 GMT -5 @mrsspunky said:

Nov 3, 2014 14:11:57 GMT -5 y4m said:

Well unless your eyes are super special, you could save a few hundred bucks potentially.

Tell me you at least buy tires online.  That's another one.

Unless this has been pointed out to them, this is the kind of thing that a lot of people (older people, especially) don't know is a possibility. My mom works for an optometrist but had never heard of Zenni, the same with Tire Rack and my dad who worked with cars for a living.

And by the time you add on the tire installation cost at a local garage after getting the tires there from tire rack, I have sometimes found that tires end up cheaper at places like Costco and BJs, especially if you use a coupon. 

[mainelyfoolish]

Nov 3, 2014 14:19:18 GMT -5 y4m said:

You can buy them from tirerack.com and have them delivered to a local installer they partner with in just a day or two. I recall saving $150 or so the last time, but admittedly it has been awhile.

ETA: Costco is probably ok.  Maybe for both glasses and tires.

My parents are older and they would never ever buy glasses online. They need to be able to go to Costco every day for two weeks (if necessary) to get them adjusted. They get their tires and hearing aids at Costco, too.