Gah. I knew this would happen

[Deleted]

You didn't really talk to this woman before asking her to move in?

And I think you need to worry less about how people view you and worry more about the situation in front of you. I'm really kind of blown away that you offered this woman a place in your home without an in depth conversation, especially considering people TOLD YOU to do so and now you're in a situation where you might cause this child more harm than help.

You wanted to be seen as nice and now you're more concerned with being seen as a sucker than coming up with a workable solution.

Please tell me your husband has a more pragmatic head on his shoulders and can have a logical and reasonable conversation with this woman? Because I'm afraid if you talk to her on your own, there's going to be a whole lot of stammering and not a whole lot of concrete decisions.

Again, I'm not trying to be a hard ass. I'm trying to impart upon you how vitally important it is for you guys to be on the same page. I also think you need to decide what you are willing to do before you talk to her and then hold firm to that.

Are you willing to keep her daughter most nights? What nights? How far an advance does she need to let you know if she needs to reschedule?

She is not taking advantage of you if she isn't taking more than you're willing to provide except you need to be abundantly clear what you're willing to provide.

[ijack]

We had a long face to face talk before deciding to offer her a place to live. But we've not been able to talk about her plans moving forward since I haven't seen her since she moved in. She has Saturdays off so we will talk then.
And I'm fully capable of having a logical and reasonable conversation with her and will do so.

[Deleted]

You had a long talk but didn't discuss childcare arrangements who has been caring for her child/whether they would be able to continue to do so once she had moved in with you?

Okay so I've officially crossed into hard ass territory.

[penguingrrl]

Honestly, if you were inviting them in and knew she had a child and a night job I'm surprised you didn't discuss this in advance. If I knew the child was at the same aftercare as my kid and was going to eventually end up at my house to sleep I wouldn't want that child shuttled to yet another place in between. At 3 maybe I would because of the amount of work, but at 7 they're somewhat self sufficient.

I definitely think you need to discuss it with her, but I can't imagine not taking in a well behaved 7 year old in this situation. While I understand feeling like she's taking advantage, maybe she was hoping to use this evening job while her daughter has a safe place with a responsible adult present to save up additional money before going out on her own since it's likely that won't be tractable once she is.

I definitely think that you and she need to discuss expectations about this, but how many of us on this board have discussed childcare as a limiting factor in the ability to work? It sounds like that's a way you can best help this woman save money and get on her feet.

[iamali]

Look. I'm cynical, at best.

When I hear that someone lived in several places over the last few months I automatically assume that they are the common denominator. I know it isn't always true though.

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2014 22:22:17 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

You had a long talk but didn't discuss childcare arrangements who has been caring for her child/whether they would be able to continue to do so once she had moved in with you?

Okay so I've officially crossed into hard ass territory.

I don't understand why this was relevant to talk about. OP offered her a place to live, right? I wouldn't automatically assume that meant she offered to provide free childcare, those are two separate things. Frankly, I almost think OP asking about childcare could have come off as condescending, like OP thought she was so much of a charity case that she couldn't figure out how to care for her child without OP swooping in and ensuring her child was taken care of. Clearly, this mom was taking good care of her child already and OP had no reason to doubt that wouldn't change when she moved in. 

ijack I know in the past you've posted about struggling to keep up with everything with your H traveling so much and you working full time/doing most of the childcare for your own kids on your own. Unless something has changed since then, I worry about you taking on another child in the evenings. You just don't have the bandwidth. Personally, I think your tenant should continue whatever arrangements she had previous to moving in. Unless this is her first week at this job, she was able to figure it out before. Maybe offer to be her backup, or if this is VERY short term before the other job works out and she can quit this one, but you don't need another kid. I think you're doing a great thing helping her out, just make sure you're not doing something that's going to make your life considerably worse. 

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2014 22:33:22 GMT -5 @buckybells said:

Dec 2, 2014 22:22:17 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

You had a long talk but didn't discuss childcare arrangements who has been caring for her child/whether they would be able to continue to do so once she had moved in with you?

Okay so I've officially crossed into hard ass territory.

I don't understand why this was relevant to talk about. OP offered her a place to live, right? I wouldn't automatically assume that meant she offered to provide free childcare, those are two separate things. Frankly, I almost think OP asking about childcare could have come off as condescending, like OP thought she was so much of a charity case that she couldn't figure out how to care for her child without OP swooping in and ensuring her child was taken care of. Clearly, this mom was taking good care of her child already and OP had no reason to doubt that wouldn't change when she moved in. 

If this woman were able to figure everything out before so easily, she wouldn't be living in ijack's basement or even considered doing so. And ijack wouldn't have asked since her original thread heavily implied she was offering because she knew the child was struggling.

I don't know that I would have necessarily fully expected to be the regular sitter but I definitely would have assumed there would be some kind of presumption that I'd be willing to pick the kid up now and then (same school, remember?), keep her when she was running errands, be the emergency contact, or end up having to pick her up if she ended up working late or whatever.

I'm not sure I agree with the "obviously taking good care of her child." I'm reading the original thread and this woman has lived in 17 places in 16 months. There is no way this child has been with the same caregiver this entire time. Absolutely none.

[ijack]

Dec 2, 2014 22:22:17 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

You had a long talk but didn't discuss childcare arrangements who has been caring for her child/whether they would be able to continue to do so once she had moved in with you?

Okay so I've officially crossed into hard ass territory.

We did discuss childcare arrangements, and she made it sound like she had things lined up. And for all I know she does and this was just an emergency (she said she was embarrassed to ask for help today), Like I said, some of the info about her arrangements this week are coming from her daughter and I didn't realize that she was being picked up so late at night (this wasn't happening before). It could just be that with her living in a different place she no longer has convenient access to her childcare options.
I talked more with the woman from the school who's been helping her out and it seems the night job is hopefully temporary and to help her to save quicker. I'm fine with watching her daughter and will let her know that when we talk.
Maybe we didn't cross every t and dot every i like we should have before she moved in. I just know she's working as hard as she can (and as many hours as she can) to move into stable housing. We have a lease agreement and you guys have helped me think about some other things we may want in writing as well.

[ijack]

Dec 2, 2014 22:43:38 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Dec 2, 2014 22:33:22 GMT -5 @buckybells said:

I don't understand why this was relevant to talk about. OP offered her a place to live, right? I wouldn't automatically assume that meant she offered to provide free childcare, those are two separate things. Frankly, I almost think OP asking about childcare could have come off as condescending, like OP thought she was so much of a charity case that she couldn't figure out how to care for her child without OP swooping in and ensuring her child was taken care of. Clearly, this mom was taking good care of her child already and OP had no reason to doubt that wouldn't change when she moved in. 

If this woman were able to figure everything out before so easily, she wouldn't be living in ijack's basement or even considered doing so. And ijack wouldn't have asked since her original thread heavily implied she was offering because she knew the child was struggling.

I don't know that I would have necessarily fully expected to be the regular sitter but I definitely would have assumed there would be some kind of presumption that I'd be willing to pick the kid up now and then (same school, remember?), keep her when she was running errands, be the emergency contact, or end up having to pick her up if she ended up working late or whatever.

I'm not sure I agree with the "obviously taking good care of her child." I'm reading the original thread and this woman has lived in 17 places in 16 months. There is no way this child has been with the same caregiver this entire time. Absolutely none.

What does this have to do with how well her child is taken care of? The mom has been able to keep the child clean, fed, safe, and get her to school (where she is thriving) while being homeless. I consider that taking good care of a child.

[iamali]

I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but if you have a lease agreement and things go South you may end up having to evict her, which isn't a short process. Please read up on your rights in this situation.

[vanillacourage]

Dec 2, 2014 22:53:22 GMT -5 ijack said:

We have a lease agreement and you guys have helped me think about some other things we may want in writing as well.

Careful here. Check tenant law to see if you can write in additional rental requirements after you have an executed lease.

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2014 22:55:42 GMT -5 ijack said:

What does this have to do with how well her child is taken care of? The mom has been able to keep the child clean, fed, safe, and get her to school (where she is thriving) while being homeless. I consider that taking good care of a child.

I'm not saying the woman is a shittastic parent or that her kid is sleeping in filth. But I don't think it's a stretch to say that childcare has been piecemeal at best and highly dependent upon what is most convenient at the time.

I went back and looked at your original post in detail. You wrote this later on: "I guess I thought of it more as her joining our family kind of. Like of course I would let her use the kitchen when she wanted to, or the laundry. Maybe we'd all eat meals together and maybe we wouldn't.

I just think about her 7yo daughter who hasn't had a real place to live and how she would probably really benefit from having something stable for a while. Hell, I'd probably make my girls share a room so the daughter could have her own room for a little while."

If you conveyed that feeling to her in any manner, then I see where she was confused. And your posts today are kind of polar opposite to what you said then.

You also said that she had "a group of people" who were taking care of her kid. Again, not CPS worthy but definitely not something you hear about and assume that childcare is totally handled.

[tictac]

@helenabonhamcarter I'm just going to let you do all the talking for me in the rest of this thread.

[Saint Monica]

ijack it sounds like you got all high off of helping and that is cool.
But
Now you need to stop being a dumbass set some firm boundaries and do so in writing . Learn your landlord tenant laws.

[Vespasia]

Dec 2, 2014 22:06:44 GMT -5 ijack said:

I guess I'm more worried about people viewing me as being taken advantage of than of actually being taken advantage of. Does that make sense? Everyone warned me about her staying too long or taking advantage of me in some way and I feel like I "need" to feel a certain way about what's happening when I don't actually mind helping out. I don't want to be viewed as a fool or someone that was completely swindled :/

If that is the case then starting a thread with this sort of title is rather counterproductive. It screams "I am being taken advantage of."

[iammalcolmx]

I am confused. In the original thread you said she had a few people helping with childcare so that wouldn't be an issue. How did we go from that to this? Also if you never discussed childcare with her, how did you learn about these people who were helping? If she had people why did you anticipate this happening and how did these people disappear? This makes no sense.