More about Tamir Rice shooting

[FloFTW]

So, last week the local Cleveland "newspaper" (online only) decided to run a story about Tamir Rice's father's legal history along with the actual story about his murder. They got flamed for that, both by readers and other journalists, which was actually pretty fun to watch. Aaaand then, another outlet, did a nice little background story on the officer that killed Tamir. Saying that he comes from a background of great police officers and aw shucks, isn't he just the best?

And then, this:

www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/investigations/timothy-loehmanns-personnel-file-reveals-problems-with-maturty-emotional-meltdown-incident

[elleblue]

 Omfg. 

It's incredibly alarming that he was still hired to another police force after those incidents. Incidents which obviously lead to his resignation. I wonder if the CPD was privy to any of that during the hiring process. 

[onomatopoeia]

Dec 3, 2014 16:21:43 GMT -5 elleblue said:

 Omfg. 

It's incredibly alarming that he was still hired to another police force after those incidents. Incidents which obviously lead to his resignation. I wonder if the CPD was privy to any of that during the hiring process. 

I would find it hard to believe they'd hire him if they knew, simply from a liability/safety issue in regards to his fellow officers.  I can't imagine anyone wanting to work alongside him or as his partner if they knew that? 

But, my faith in the common sense of many police departments is pretty low right now. So maybe they did really think he was a fine candidate for hire, even knowing all that.  Maybe he had connections.

[josieposy]

Okay seriously? What the hell?!!

[gpw]

Dec 3, 2014 16:33:15 GMT -5 onomatopoeia said:

Dec 3, 2014 16:21:43 GMT -5 elleblue said:

 Omfg. 

It's incredibly alarming that he was still hired to another police force after those incidents. Incidents which obviously lead to his resignation. I wonder if the CPD was privy to any of that during the hiring process. 

I would find it hard to believe they'd hire him if they knew, simply from a liability/safety issue in regards to his fellow officers.  I can't imagine anyone wanting to work alongside him or as his partner if they knew that? 

But, my faith in the common sense of many police departments is pretty low right now. So maybe they did really think he was a fine candidate for hire, even knowing all that.  Maybe he had connections.

You know, I remember when I had friends that were applying to LEO positions and they even did background checks on immediate family members.  Not long after we were married, my H was transferred to a special unit and they did a check on me.  I don't know if they still do it because I know there is a pretty low bar in the big city here.  It's hard to find good people who will work for such low wages, sadly.  Even sadder still is that it's at the cost of public safety.  

[downtoearth]

Okay, I might get flamed, but here goes.

I totally think he killed Tamir in cold blood and was 100% WRONG in that shooting and that he should stand trial. However, I also think hearing that at his first job he resigned from abruptly after appearing immature and crying on an day when he happened to have to take a firearm test does not prove that he was someone who would racially profile a kid and shoot first/ask-questions-later. The death of Tamir seems to be a case for the fact that this officer was trained to kill with his firearm and probably more indoctrinated with the prolific racial profiling by 2014 (granted only 2 years after his changing police forces). So his terrible conduct in the Tamir case has nothing to do with the info that he might have cried at police training and during a firearm test in 2012 one day.

I don't really want our police officers crying on the job - especially if they are bad with firearms as insinuated, but I also don't think crying at work twice doesn't = unhinged.  I think this guy needs to get fired and sent to jail for killing a 12 year old despite his maturity or immaturity.

[racegrrl714]

Dec 3, 2014 16:16:26 GMT -5 FloFTW said:

So, last week the local Cleveland "newspaper" (online only) decided to run a story about Tamir Rice's father's legal history along with the actual story about his murder. They got flamed for that, both by readers and other journalists, which was actually pretty fun to watch. Aaaand then, another outlet, did a nice little background story on the officer that killed Tamir. Saying that he comes from a background of great police officers and aw shucks, isn't he just the best?

And then, this:

www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/investigations/timothy-loehmanns-personnel-file-reveals-problems-with-maturty-emotional-meltdown-incident

Dude needs to burn for what he did.

[sunny]

WTF.

[tictac]

[josieposy]

If he was in the process of being fired over at least a couple separate incidents, it doesn't sound like one bad day to me.

[FloFTW]

From the personnel file.



"Due to his dangerous loss of composure during live range training and his inability to manage this personal stress, I do not believe Ptl. Loehmann shows the maturity needed to work in our employment.

"Unfortunately in law enforcement there are times when instructions need (to) be followed to the letter, and I am under the impression Ptl. Loehmann, under certain circumstances, will not react in the way instructed. ...

"...I am recommending he be released from the employment of the City of Independence. I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct these deficiencies."

www.creators.com/opinion/connie-schultz/if-our-grief-were-colorblind.html

[gottadobe]

Knowing that, WTF is wrong with Cleveland PD?

[racegrrl714]

Dec 3, 2014 19:02:22 GMT -5 cjoy said:

Dec 3, 2014 16:50:04 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Okay, I might get flamed, but here goes.

I totally think he killed Tamir in cold blood and was 100% WRONG in that shooting and that he should stand trial. However, I also think hearing that at his first job he resigned from abruptly after appearing immature and crying on an day when he happened to have to take a firearm test does not prove that he was someone who would racially profile a kid and shoot first/ask-questions-later. The death of Tamir seems to be a case for the fact that this officer was trained to kill with his firearm and probably more indoctrinated with the prolific racial profiling by 2014 (granted only 2 years after his changing police forces). So his terrible conduct in the Tamir case has nothing to do with the info that he might have cried at police training and during a firearm test in 2012 one day.

I don't really want our police officers crying on the job - especially if they are bad with firearms as insinuated, but I also don't think crying at work twice doesn't = unhinged.  I think this guy needs to get fired and sent to jail for killing a 12 year old despite his maturity or immaturity.

I disagree. Lack of maturity -> poor judgement -> rolling up and killing a 12 year old with no apparent thought process. It's all linked.

Yeah I don't want some dude who can't control his emotions every time he and his woman have a fight anywhere near an occupation that requires carrying a weapon.

[sunny]

Dec 3, 2014 19:45:45 GMT -5 FloFTW said:

From the personnel file.



"Due to his dangerous loss of composure during live range training and his inability to manage this personal stress, I do not believe Ptl. Loehmann shows the maturity needed to work in our employment.

"Unfortunately in law enforcement there are times when instructions need (to) be followed to the letter, and I am under the impression Ptl. Loehmann, under certain circumstances, will not react in the way instructed. ...

"...I am recommending he be released from the employment of the City of Independence. I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct these deficiencies."

www.creators.com/opinion/connie-schultz/if-our-grief-were-colorblind.html

so the family now has cause to sue Cleveland PD? or would their defense argue it was confidential files and not disclosable?

[gottadobe]

@majorwife sounds like it. My BF is from Cleveland and is coming this weekend. We may actually break up over this. We almost did over Ferguson.

If we don't, and I ever move to OH (not likely), I'm living in Independence. They are the only department that has demonstrated they have some sense recently.

[FloFTW]

Dec 3, 2014 19:49:32 GMT -5 gottadobe said:

Knowing that, WTF is wrong with Cleveland PD?

They apparently were not told about the personnel file:

www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/cleveland_police_never_reviewe.html

The CPD is now amending their policies to require the review of personnel files before hiring.

[jlt19]

Has the driver made a statement? I wonder if he is in agreement that it was a justified shooting or if he will say that the officer was not acting as he should. Though he was the one that flew up on the kid like he was stopping a diamond heist...

[FloFTW]

Results of the "sweeping probe" of the PD to be announced at 1:15

www.cleveland.com/court-justice/index.ssf/2014/12/department_of_justice_to_annou.html

[downtoearth]

Dec 3, 2014 20:07:20 GMT -5 racegrrl714 said:

Dec 3, 2014 19:02:22 GMT -5 cjoy said:

I disagree. Lack of maturity -> poor judgement -> rolling up and killing a 12 year old with no apparent thought process. It's all linked.

Yeah I don't want some dude who can't control his emotions every time he and his woman have a fight anywhere near an occupation that requires carrying a weapon.

I guess I do see both of your points, but also, I feel like the PD will run with this... one unhinged, immature cop did this and it's not a systemic issue for all police departments. I mean, I want the cops who are disgusted by this to take over all the police departments and start some sweeping changes. I was looking at it from passing-the-buck standpoint.

But we all know now how nothing will happen and the guy will get to resign from this position after a grand jury finds no need to indict him and no profiling/justified killing of a 12 year old boy.

[lya]

I don't know, something about using the fact that he had "emotional breakdowns" twice as evidence of immaturity doesn't sit right with me. Now the fact that he didn't perform well during the handgun training and the incident where he left his firearm unsecured in his locker are a completely different story.

[lobstertail]

Dec 4, 2014 13:23:22 GMT -5 cjoy said:

Dec 4, 2014 11:20:49 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

I guess I do see both of your points, but also, I feel like the PD will run with this... one unhinged, immature cop did this and it's not a systemic issue for all police departments. I mean, I want the cops who are disgusted by this to take over all the police departments and start some sweeping changes. I was looking at it from passing-the-buck standpoint.

But we all know now how nothing will happen and the guy will get to resign from this position after a grand jury finds no need to indict him and no profiling/justified killing of a 12 year old boy.

Are there cops disgusted by this? If there are, they're incredibly silent on the matter.

I would really like to know this, too. This is just my anecdata from facebook, but the LEOs I know are noticeably silent on the matter. They were very supportive of Darren Wilson, but have not said anything about the situation in Cleveland.