The Incredible Shrinking Incomes of Young Americans

[aprilsails]

I read this yesterday and thought it had some good points, although it's hard to say what the outcomes will be in the long term. I can envision wages rising rapidly once the baby boomers begin to retire out at a faster rate and positions need to be filled.

I will say as a personal anecdote that my sister has been slammed hard by this affect. I graduated in 2007 and was able to get a very good salary in our hometown area for my electrical engineering degree doing building construction engineering. She graduated in 2013 and was being given offers for employment at 20% less than my starting salary from 6 years earlier. She had higher grades, a year of coop work experience, and is in effectively the same engineering field. When she asked one company why the salaries were so low (she was expecting better obviously) she was told that as a jr. engineer she was dime a dozen and they could hire anyone and train them up.

I reassured her by pointing out that I got a 15% raise my first year. She just finished her first year and was offered 7%.

Her generation is going to struggle if this is how they are all going to be treated.

[Velar Fricative]

Dec 5, 2014 14:41:37 GMT -5 aprilsails said:

I read this yesterday and thought it had some good points, although it's hard to say what the outcomes will be in the long term. I can envision wages rising rapidly once the baby boomers begin to retire out at a faster rate and positions need to be filled.

I would like for this to happen but I am pessimistic. In some industries, we already see a lot of people retiring and yet, either those positions aren't being filled or they ARE being filled by experienced workers (so, probably not Millennials fresh out of college) and then companies and organizations are cutting the vacancies that result from the filling of higher-level jobs.

I feel like so much damage has already been done in terms of getting people to "settle" for what they're earning because, hey, at least they have a job. 

[penguingrrl]

Ugh, I've definitely seen this trend. And while retirements should be helping, it appears that by and large positions are going unfilled and those who are employed just have more work put on their plate instead.

[mbcdefg]

Dec 5, 2014 14:52:08 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Dec 5, 2014 14:41:37 GMT -5 aprilsails said:

I read this yesterday and thought it had some good points, although it's hard to say what the outcomes will be in the long term. I can envision wages rising rapidly once the baby boomers begin to retire out at a faster rate and positions need to be filled.

I would like for this to happen but I am pessimistic. In some industries, we already see a lot of people retiring and yet, either those positions aren't being filled or they ARE being filled by experienced workers (so, probably not Millennials fresh out of college) and then companies and organizations are cutting the vacancies that result from the filling of higher-level jobs.

I feel like so much damage has already been done in terms of getting people to "settle" for what they're earning because, hey, at least they have a job. 

I've gone through several jobs since I got out of college - combination of seeking upward growth, one firing, and lots of short-term contract jobs (because I had to take what I could get).

My current salary is what I was making in 2008, but my attitude has become, "At least I HAVE a job." Especially since I'm in the editorial industry and mass layoffs are common ... my current company recently laid off a whole in-house department and outsourced their tasks to an overseas company, and closed one of our satellite offices completely. I'm not confident in my security and I'm making peanuts, but I gotta pay my bills so I'm sticking around even though I know it's just a matter of time before they lay me off.

[tacosforlife]

And this shit is why I'm tired of millennials being referred to as "entitled." Sure, there are plenty of entitled little shits out there, but hello, have you met old people who think the world owes them everything just because they are old? Young people in this country have largely been dealt a shit hand, and when they dare complain, they are called entitled.

[saz]

Dec 5, 2014 14:41:37 GMT -5 aprilsails said:

I read this yesterday and thought it had some good points, although it's hard to say what the outcomes will be in the long term. I can envision wages rising rapidly once the baby boomers begin to retire out at a faster rate and positions need to be filled.

I will say as a personal anecdote that my sister has been slammed hard by this affect. I graduated in 2007 and was able to get a very good salary in our hometown area for my electrical engineering degree doing building construction engineering. She graduated in 2013 and was being given offers for employment at 20% less than my starting salary from 6 years earlier. She had higher grades, a year of coop work experience, and is in effectively the same engineering field. When she asked one company why the salaries were so low (she was expecting better obviously) she was told that as a jr. engineer she was dime a dozen and they could hire anyone and train them up.

I reassured her by pointing out that I got a 15% raise my first year. She just finished her first year and was offered 7%.

Her generation is going to struggle if this is how they are all going to be treated.

My DH and I graduated in 2007 also, and he's an engineer. He got a great job related to new construction as well, but was laid off as a part of massive cuts in his company in 2009. Just a year ago, he finally got back to the salary he had at that first job. It is hard for me to imagine that it was easier for previous generations since this is all we've known, and I'd rather not anyway because I have enough to be annoyed at boomers about without it.

But also, I can't be the only one who giggled at the name "Konrad Mugglestone."

[jeaniebueller]

Dec 5, 2014 14:57:08 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

And this shit is why I'm tired of millennials being referred to as "entitled." Sure, there are plenty of entitled little shits out there, but hello, have you met old people who think the world owes them everything just because they are old? Young people in this country have largely been dealt a shit hand, and when they dare complain, they are called entitled.

They all have iphones and ipads and the existence of social media, so we shouldn't feel sorry for them.

[penguingrrl]

Different branches of engineering have been in trouble for a while. My friend graduated in ChemE in '02 and did very well. Good salary, signing bonus, etc despite having good but not great grades. DH graduated with highest honors in '04 and spent forever looking for a job to eventually end up with one that wasn't in engineering and didn't require a degree, as did all of his friends who didn't go to grad school. That was the impetus for him to go to grad school because he spent two years trying to get a foot in the door and it never happened (and he had great grades, great recommendations and two internships under his belt).

I am tired of hearing how "spoiled" my generation is when H worked hard and did everything "right" and we're finally at the point where he earns a decent wage 10 years after graduation.

[lys]

This month's jobs' report was an improvement - however, the U6 rate is still high with the "real" unemployment rate calculated at over 11%. We have far too many people still out of work, far to many working part time or at reduced hours and far too may working at low wages.

[pt716]

Dec 5, 2014 15:51:04 GMT -5 lys said:

This month's jobs' report was an improvement - however, the U6 rate is still high with the "real" unemployment rate calculated at over 11%. We have far too many people still out of work, far to many working part time or at reduced hours and far too may working at low wages.

I only republicans would stop cutting funding in my field.

[eponinepontmercy]

Dec 5, 2014 15:51:04 GMT -5 lys said:

This month's jobs' report was an improvement - however, the U6 rate is still high with the "real" unemployment rate calculated at over 11%. We have far too many people still out of work, far to many working part time or at reduced hours and far too may working at low wages.

How do we change this, though?  Corporations are raking in money hand over fist.  What sort of incentive is there to create more jobs if they are profitable in the current environment?  

I know when I was laid off in 2010, the company that hired me after a few months did receive some sort of tax credit for hiring a person who had been unemployed.  But, that was a tiny company.  That sort of incentive isn't going to make a difference to Exxon or Apple.

[penguingrrl]

Dec 5, 2014 16:38:16 GMT -5 eponinepontmercy said:

Dec 5, 2014 15:51:04 GMT -5 lys said:

This month's jobs' report was an improvement - however, the U6 rate is still high with the "real" unemployment rate calculated at over 11%. We have far too many people still out of work, far to many working part time or at reduced hours and far too may working at low wages.

How do we change this, though?  Corporations are raking in money hand over fist.  What sort of incentive is there to create more jobs if they are profitable in the current environment?  

I know when I was laid off in 2010, the company that hired me after a few months did receive some sort of tax credit for hiring a person who had been unemployed.  But, that was a tiny company.  That sort of incentive isn't going to make a difference to Exxon or Apple.

I always laugh at the assertion that lower corporate taxes will free up money that they'll reinvest in the company by hiring more workers. The theory is really nice and may work on a small-scale but large companies have been recording record profits for years while employing as few people as they can get away with and earn money. A tax break is simply going to give a bonus to shareholders.

[blink]

Dec 5, 2014 14:52:08 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Dec 5, 2014 14:41:37 GMT -5 aprilsails said:

I read this yesterday and thought it had some good points, although it's hard to say what the outcomes will be in the long term. I can envision wages rising rapidly once the baby boomers begin to retire out at a faster rate and positions need to be filled.

I would like for this to happen but I am pessimistic. In some industries, we already see a lot of people retiring and yet, either those positions aren't being filled or they ARE being filled by experienced workers (so, probably not Millennials fresh out of college) and then companies and organizations are cutting the vacancies that result from the filling of higher-level jobs.

I feel like so much damage has already been done in terms of getting people to "settle" for what they're earning because, hey, at least they have a job. 

Ugh, so much this. I will be graduating in May and this is essentially my motto. I just want a job, any job. Its a huge cause of stress and older relatives don't understand. No, I don't want to take an unpaid internship or volunteer; I need a job so I can eat and not be homeless. I mean damn, The Pursuit of Happyness isn't supposed to be a how-to guide yet it sure feels like that is what companies expect from everyone nowadays.

But like others echo above, what's the solution? How do we truly improve the jobs? I mean, I want to say that if everyone just stopped doing all of the extra work and production rates fell then corporations would have to hire more people. Except this isn't something you can place on the individual workers who just want to pay their bills. So what can be done? Cut corporate taxes (even more)? Don't those taxes go to help fund what little safety net is left in this country? Or do we impose more regulations or policies? But then corporations will just not to hire as many people, right? Could lowering the definition of full-time to 35hrs like France be a viable solution? Would that put more people into overtime and thus encourage companies to hire more people that way they don't have to pay (even more) overtime? Would changing how much overtime pay is help the situation and essentially force employers to hire more people?


Granted its not not like any solution could actually get any traction with the wonderful Congress we have that is more concerned about repealing the ACA, grandstanding to respective crazies, and regulating uteri across the nation.

[catmt]

One solution could be raising the income level for mandatory overtime.  Too many people work too many uncompensated hours.

[meltoine]

When that video about income inequality went viral last year I wondered if some kind of tax incentive program could be instituted to shorten the gap. For instance, in companies where the median earner makes at least, say, 35 or 40% of what the top 5% of earners within the company make, the company gets a tax break. So (to make the math easy) say the top 5% of employees at company X make an average of $1M/year, if the median wage for the company (including management, worker, janitors, etc) is at least $350K, the company gets a tax break.

I have no idea if it would work in real life, but in theory it seemed to me like a decent place to start addressing the wage gap.