I don't have any particular experience to add to this. But I did find this article very interesting and sad for those who have done so much right and were screwed over by the housing bubble.
There's a second piece in the WaPost today, didn't get a chance to read it, but will when I get home. (yep I'm old school and prefer the paper version)
Do you think that high-profile corruption cases have further hurt the economy and those people wanting to move there?
We didn't consider MD at all when buying a house since my H's job is in NOVA. We could probably get more for our money there.
No corruption is everywhere, just look at Bob McDonnell, lol. I think people don't want to live in a majority black county. They will blame schools or corruption but somehow that has not deterred people from flocking to DC that has plenty of corruption and a screwed up school system nor does it keep people from living in parts of Arlington or Alexandria that do not have good schools.
TRUTH.
Don't even get me started about the recent fucking up of freeway construction. The incompetence is astounding.
As for PG County, I've found this discussion really interesting, so thanks. I didn't really know anything about it before I moved here. I simply didn't consider living there because my job is the opposite direction (VA) and I didn't want a longer commute. I would consider it if H got a job in PG County, but all the local jobs he's applied to are in DC or VA (and that's a whole other, but related issue). He just applied to 2 jobs in Arlington, I think. If we both work in VA, it would just make no sense for us to live in PG County, kwim? I am so resistant to the idea of moving to VA, but if H got a job there, I might relent just because the idea of a 15- or 20-minute commute sounds awesome.
I don't have any particular experience to add to this. But I did find this article very interesting and sad for those who have done so much right and were screwed over by the housing bubble.
There's a second piece in the WaPost today, didn't get a chance to read it, but will when I get home. (yep I'm old school and prefer the paper version)
Do you think that high-profile corruption cases have further hurt the economy and those people wanting to move there?
We didn't consider MD at all when buying a house since my H's job is in NOVA. We could probably get more for our money there.
No corruption is everywhere, just look at Bob McDonnell, lol. I think people don't want to live in a majority black county. They will blame schools or corruption but somehow that has not deterred people from flocking to DC that has plenty of corruption and a screwed up school system nor does it keep people from living in parts of Arlington or Alexandria that do not have good schools.
This, all day, everyday.
I opted not to get into it with a poster on MM time, because someone asked about living in the DMV, and she was all, "don't live in PG". I did ask why, as did others, because you could tell their was so implicit bias behind it, and she was all, it's far depending on where you work. Uh no, just own your bias.
I have NEVER EVER judged people for walking away. This is when I feel terrible for people who are in careers requiring a credit check. H and I both had jobs like that.
Yep. That is me too. It affects clearances, but I have heard that they have been taking the housing bubble into consideration. I just can't risk it.
But the loss we have on our home is ridiculous. We will never recover. Our only option is to rent at a loss, walk away, or stay. None of them sound appealing.
I rent my condo at a loss each month. It sucks. I moved to a different state for work as a 2 hour commute each way wasn't feasible for me.
I would have walked away except that the state is a recourse state, so I would have been on the hook anyway for the difference. So I figured I might as well maintain an asset that will hopefully eventually produce money than just have a $50K loss for nothing.
I live in PGC. I have one daughter in a charter school that is fine, and the other is in a PGC public school that is atrocious. There is rampant bullying and the principal doesn't care (my calls to her result in "we'll look into it" in a bored, dismissive tone.) I've struggled with the PGC bus system - the phone number they list on the website isn't answered and cuts off after a 59-minute wait on hold - they won't list the supervisors' phone numbers to actually talk to a person. I often travel to VA to shop, because when I go to the Target near me I get home and often find the products have been shoplifted (the 10-pack of socks has 8 pair, the gummy multivitamins were opened and some missing, I could go on and on.) In addition, I can't wheel the carts to my car because the anti-theft wheels lock up at the store entrance. Some of these things are minor, but when you add up the daily things like that, it's inhospitable and doesn't feel like a community. I do think other parts of PGC are different and they are building some nice communities, but my experience hasn't been the best. We are moving in a few months.
I live in PGC. I have one daughter in a charter school that is fine, and the other is in a PGC public school that is atrocious. There is rampant bullying and the principal doesn't care (my calls to her result in "we'll look into it" in a bored, dismissive tone.) I've struggled with the PGC bus system - the phone number they list on the website isn't answered and cuts off after a 59-minute wait on hold - they won't list the supervisors' phone numbers to actually talk to a person. I often travel to VA to shop, because when I go to the Target near me I get home and often find the products have been shoplifted (the 10-pack of socks has 8 pair, the gummy multivitamins were opened and some missing, I could go on and on.) In addition, I can't wheel the carts to my car because the anti-theft wheels lock up at the store entrance. Some of these things are minor, but when you add up the daily things like that, it's inhospitable and doesn't feel like a community. I do think other parts of PGC are different and they are building some nice communities, but my experience hasn't been the best. We are moving in a few months.
You can have these issues in any County. I have had nothing but pleasant experiences in Bowie.
Post by sunshine608 on Jan 26, 2015 9:52:49 GMT -5
My neighborhood in the Atl burbs is going through something similar ( the whole county is although we are still a somewhat mixed area, I'm starting to hear people say we are turning bad).
My neighbors ( and the previous owner) all paid 300-400K+ for their homes. We purchased as a foreclosure and I wonder if the previous owners decided to walk away. Most stayed though . Our clubhouse, pool, lake and empty lots were foreclosed on in January of last year. A new builder just put up signs last week and will be selling new houses from the 250's ( probably more like the 300's) but that's still 100K+ than many paid. I doubt many took out HELOCS because the houses were built right at as the bubble burst though.
I'm sure we got the same looks when they saw what we paid.
I don't have any particular experience to add to this. But I did find this article very interesting and sad for those who have done so much right and were screwed over by the housing bubble.
There's a second piece in the WaPost today, didn't get a chance to read it, but will when I get home. (yep I'm old school and prefer the paper version)
Do you think that high-profile corruption cases have further hurt the economy and those people wanting to move there?
We didn't consider MD at all when buying a house since my H's job is in NOVA. We could probably get more for our money there.
No corruption is everywhere, just look at Bob McDonnell, lol. I think people don't want to live in a majority black county. They will blame schools or corruption but somehow that has not deterred people from flocking to DC that has plenty of corruption and a screwed up school system nor does it keep people from living in parts of Arlington or Alexandria that do not have good schools.
But we're post-racial. LOL
Again, I point to the way we have been conditioned to believe that black people = elevated crime rates EVEN WHEN said black people are high earners. One of these days, I'm going to find some time to really sift through the data and read some new Urban Problems books to see if my theory is solid, because I seriously believe that it is.
White Flight is a catalyst here. In this article, PG County was once predominately white. When did the switch happen? What was the tipping point? How many black folks need to show up before white folks move out? And WHY OH WHY is the county's appraisal office appraising homes in majority black communities lower? If the SAME size house in PG County was going for nearly the same rate in a majority white county, then why aren't the house values rebounding at the same rate? All of it isn't tied to bad schools. If I look at my own city, you can't tell me that a house in Midtown Memphis near some bad schools isn't just as much as the one in East Memphis near the top school in the city. Both neighborhoods are majority white.
But, we won't really talk about that issue, because no one wants to own it.
LoveTrains, I know renting at a loss sucks, but are you at least happy not to be living in the condo anymore? I remember when you would talk about it and I'd want to like your posts because I could have written them myself but I didn't because they were terrible lol. It doesn't seem as terrible now. Is that because it feels fairly resolved or because you're more removed from it?
Yes, definitely happy to have much more space now. At the end of the day, my H and I truly very fortunate people. I got a great new job in a new city, which is what prompted the move. It gave us an excuse to move out of the condo that we so desperately didn't want to live in anymore because it was just too small and we were tired of its location. We never should have bought it in the first place, but you do stupid stuff when you are young and it was before my days on MM.
Everyone on MM advised against the move, and in reality, it has not been a situation that has improved our situation MM-wise in that we pay a monthly loss on the condo. But we are lucky in that the tenants have been good and have always paid their rent on time. Rents are only going up and we have been able to increase the rent on the unit by 30% from when we first moved out (but its still a monthly loss). At some point we will have paid off that mortgage and it will be a positive income stream, or the rents will continue to increase and it will be a positive income stream.
We were able to move to a less expensive city that I love with much more affordable real estate values. We would never be able to have a home like this if we still lived in Boston. The condo is still a PITA when something breaks, but at the end of the day I realize that we made a mistake and it is what it is. We are fortunate that we can afford it.
Post by Velar Fricative on Jan 26, 2015 10:34:47 GMT -5
I always thought it was common knowledge that when you hear a white person say a particular neighborhood and/or its schools are "bad," it's code for "black people live there." I hear the same thing about some of the Queens/Long Island neighborhoods/towns with majority-black, heavily middle-class populations even though the neighborhoods aren't any more or less unsafe than other neighborhoods when you actually look at the crime stats.
Hell, I saw this growing up in a suburban town that was majority-white but had a decent minority population too. Because of that my school district had a reputation of not being as good a district as neighboring schools. It was clear to me even as a teenager that race had to do with those opinions because the school's test results, college admissions results, etc. were still quite good. So none of the code for PGC being a "bad county" surprises me.
Northern Oakland County Michigan. There were a LOT of foreclosures in the area.
A friend living in the city of Detroit saw houses around her plummeting to under $10k after the housing crash. Not plummeting BY $10k, plummeting TO $10k (and less). Crazy.
Post by simpsongal on Jan 26, 2015 11:32:28 GMT -5
I really wish they would have ditched the example of the 50-something pastor that bought a house for over $1 million, with a $5000/mo mortgage. That just seems insane to me.
It's amazing how people are about PG County. When my BIL was stationed in the area I tried like hell to convince him to live in Bowie so I could see my sister whenever I damn well pleased. But all the people in his unit that he talked to were like, "no, no, no, Bowie's awful. You don't want to live there. You should look in MOTHER FUCKING WALDORF."
And then he took their word over mine.
What the fuck people? Waldorf? How is waldorf better than Bowie? I mean, the drive for my BIL was marginally shorter - but he was stuck on 301/5 instead of having multiple options. And much more importantly - it totally isolated my sister in a place nothing to do and nowhere to go and she was over an hour from my house without traffic, instead of an easy "hey let's grab dinner" 20 minutes away with nearby shopping and entertainment. AND THEN HIS ASS GOT DEPLOYED AND SHE WAS STUCK THERE ALONE AND I'm still mad about this 3 years later. Obviously.
Fuck people and their bullshit. I'm not sure if that kind of stuff is better or worse than people like MH's aunt-by-unhappy-marriage (this woman is not blood to him. thank god) who used to live in PG and fled to Charles, but was unhappy there too because she felt like her neighborhood was "getting a little dark lately." (direct quote)
Post by Velar Fricative on Jan 26, 2015 11:43:54 GMT -5
What slays me (among many other things) is that the same people worrying about their neighborhoods getting too "dark" are the same people who think blahhhhh people just need to lift themselves up by the bootstraps and work hard so they can achieve the same things whites already have. Well, here you have middle-class black families doing just that but nahhhhhh, don't want to live next to black people. They can go have their own success over there on the other side of the tracks thankyouverymuch.
IT MAKES NO SENSE and this is just one reason out of a million that things won't change.
Say it Velar. Which means that again that the idea of home ownership and building equity wealth doesn't work for black folks. And if you ask folks what they mean about it "getting dark" they'd start stuttering trying to say that they aren't racist.
Again, I point to the way we have been conditioned to believe that black people = elevated crime rates EVEN WHEN said black people are high earners. One of these days, I'm going to find some time to really sift through the data and read some new Urban Problems books to see if my theory is solid, because I seriously believe that it is.
White Flight is a catalyst here. In this article, PG County was once predominately white. When did the switch happen? What was the tipping point? How many black folks need to show up before white folks move out? And WHY OH WHY is the county's appraisal office appraising homes in majority black communities lower? If the SAME size house in PG County was going for nearly the same rate in a majority white county, then why aren't the house values rebounding at the same rate? All of it isn't tied to bad schools. If I look at my own city, you can't tell me that a house in Midtown Memphis near some bad schools isn't just as much as the one in East Memphis near the top school in the city. Both neighborhoods are majority white.
But, we won't really talk about that issue, because no one wants to own it.
I don't know what the tipping point was for PG County, but I once read that when a neighborhood gets to 7-8% black on average, that is when white flight begins. This is up from the start of integration when it was 4-5%.
I think I live in a bubble. Who moves because of this? I mean less than 10% and it's a "white flight" situation? Who are these a-holes?
All I know is that I can't wait until the Supreme Court guts the Fair Housing Act later this spring so that banks will be free to engage in even more discrimination in housing and mortgage lending.
Let Freedom Ring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your gif is hilarious, but really I want to know what you're referring to here about SCOTUS gutting fair housing?
All I know is that I can't wait until the Supreme Court guts the Fair Housing Act later this spring so that banks will be free to engage in even more discrimination in housing and mortgage lending.
Let Freedom Ring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your gif is hilarious, but really I want to know what you're referring to here about SCOTUS gutting fair housing?
Here's a good article on it by the amazing Elizabeth Warren.
Did I post here about how some of the new white people in my neighborhood wanted to start a campaign to demolish the basketball court at our rec center and replace it with "something appealing to a broader part of the population?"
I'm DYING to know what they suggested.
Also, that's BS. Basketball appeals to a lot of folks. You think my short ass wasn't out there pretending to be Muggsy Bogues from time to time?
I live in PGC. I have one daughter in a charter school that is fine, and the other is in a PGC public school that is atrocious. There is rampant bullying and the principal doesn't care (my calls to her result in "we'll look into it" in a bored, dismissive tone.) I've struggled with the PGC bus system - the phone number they list on the website isn't answered and cuts off after a 59-minute wait on hold - they won't list the supervisors' phone numbers to actually talk to a person. I often travel to VA to shop, because when I go to the Target near me I get home and often find the products have been shoplifted (the 10-pack of socks has 8 pair, the gummy multivitamins were opened and some missing, I could go on and on.) In addition, I can't wheel the carts to my car because the anti-theft wheels lock up at the store entrance. Some of these things are minor, but when you add up the daily things like that, it's inhospitable and doesn't feel like a community. I do think other parts of PGC are different and they are building some nice communities, but my experience hasn't been the best. We are moving in a few months.
This is to get the principal moving, hold them accountable and give you the ammunition you need if you have to go above their head. You also would want to talk to Dr. Michael Ford if you are getting nothing from county. It is not allowed to get no response
I live in PGC. I have one daughter in a charter school that is fine, and the other is in a PGC public school that is atrocious. There is rampant bullying and the principal doesn't care (my calls to her result in "we'll look into it" in a bored, dismissive tone.) I've struggled with the PGC bus system - the phone number they list on the website isn't answered and cuts off after a 59-minute wait on hold - they won't list the supervisors' phone numbers to actually talk to a person. I often travel to VA to shop, because when I go to the Target near me I get home and often find the products have been shoplifted (the 10-pack of socks has 8 pair, the gummy multivitamins were opened and some missing, I could go on and on.) In addition, I can't wheel the carts to my car because the anti-theft wheels lock up at the store entrance. Some of these things are minor, but when you add up the daily things like that, it's inhospitable and doesn't feel like a community. I do think other parts of PGC are different and they are building some nice communities, but my experience hasn't been the best. We are moving in a few months.
Right but PG is the second most populated county in the state and one of the largest in terms of land area. When people describe an experience and then attribute it to an entire county versus the particular pocket you live in, that is what makes the reputation so hard to shake. I have lived here for almost 10 years and have yet to shop at a store with anti theft wheels
I fully acknowledge that this county needs work in a number of areas but much of it is very dependent on the locality.
Did I post here about how some of the new white people in my neighborhood wanted to start a campaign to demolish the basketball court at our rec center and replace it with "something appealing to a broader part of the population?"
I'm DYING to know what they suggested.
Also, that's BS. Basketball appeals to a lot of folks. You think my short ass wasn't out there pretending to be Muggsy Bogues from time to time?
I was a 5' 2" point guard in western US as a kid and totally wanted to be Muggsy. Remember that SI cover with him and Manute Bol who was like over 7' tall?
Also, that's BS. Basketball appeals to a lot of folks. You think my short ass wasn't out there pretending to be Muggsy Bogues from time to time?
Well they are all pregant or have kids under 2 so they want stuff for babies--no matter that we ready have two nice playgrounds, a splash park and a pool with a separate baby pool that's like 2 ft deep. Apparently none of them plan to still live here when their kids are like 8.
H is Mugsy Bogues like (in stature, not talent) and makes regular use of the basketball court with some equally untalented neighbors. When they get challenged to a game by 19 year olds it is amazingly hilarious.
Sounds legit.
Also, my birthday is in July. Footage of your H playing bball would be much appreciated.
Don't they always have tornados there? I think that is all I know of Waldorf.
And, I will admit, some areas of PG scare me, but this is not just PG County. I lived in Bmore for goodness sake. And, no, it is not all like The Wire. I also blame some of NOVA (Alexandria specifically) and their police department who I have heard at many conferences, etc saying all their crime comes over the bridge from PG. Now, some probably, but ALL? I know it is code for the blah people from MD. You know, wink wink.