I won't do it. I'm sorry if it hurts their feelings, but I'm more sorry that she feels it necessary to potentially endanger everyone around her by listening to the advice of a freaking ex-Playboy bunny and a Dr. who has been stripped of all of his credentials. My opinion of anti-vaxxers is about as low as it gets. (this of course only applies to those who are not vaccinating by choice. Not those whose children cannot be vaccinated due to legitimate medical reasons.)
It's so frustrating trying to have a reasonable conversation with them about this, too, they just don't "get" our concern.
Give up on trying to have a conversation with them. They aren't going to see it your way. you have to make the decision to not see them knowing full well that this isn't going to change their mind.
From here on out, for them and others who ask or push, just keep it simple - "we won't knowingly expose our young child to vaccinated children". Period. Rinse and repeat.
I'm sure the rest of the family will be upset that you all don't come to the weekly meals and will apply pressure. Again, stand strong. "It's their choice to not vaccinate. It's our choice to not expose our child.". Period. I fully believe that the less you say, the more impact you have. AND the less room you give them for debate and argument.
This is actually a great point. There is just no reasoning with them at all, like most people who share their beliefs. H has offered to have his parents over seperate from BIL and SIL, and I think that's probably what will end up being the norm for a while.
Ditto everyone who said they wouldn't hang out with them with kids around. I would probably get coffee or lunch with her occasionally, but that would be it for me. It's just not worth the risk.
On a side note, my BIL and SIL must run into this with his brother, since his brother and SIL are home birthing, anti-vax, goat milk drinking parents. They have kids that are close in age to my nephews, but live a plane ride away thankfully, so I think they only see them a few times a year. I'm tempted to ask my SIL how they handle it, since she is a nurse, but don't want to offend BIL.
I literally just found out yesterday a friend of mine doesn't vaccinate her 2 kids. We live in the same very small town so our kids will be in contact I'm sure even though they won't be in the same grade.
However now that I know, my kid will not be in contact with hers if I can control it. I get that she wants to be crunchy, but her (insane) choices shouldn't be my problem!
The only thing more obnoxious then mouthy anti-vaccers are the silent ones who don't vaccinate but also don't announce it. I think there are a lot more out there than you realize in parks and public places that contact is unavoidable..
If I did know that someone I'm kind of close too chose not to vaccinate their children than I wouldn't hang out with them on principle alone. Don't rely on my vaccinated kids contribution to herd immunity, assholes.
If this were a close friend, I'd probably continue to see her, but not let my not-yet-vaccinated baby be around her kids. I would be questioning her judgement, and that would probably affect our relationship. If it were more of an acquaintance, I'd probably just cut of contact completely. If this were a family member, I would certainly be questioning their judgement, but you don't get to choose your family. I would discuss with my pediatrician, and determine at what point she felt it was safe to bring my children around their children. And then I would wait until that point for my children to be introduced to the unvaccinated children.
I dropped a friend who didn't vaccinate. Actually, she brought her older child (about seven years old) to babysit my dd1 when dd1 was about six months old. I found out several months later that her daughter had never been vaccinated. I was really livid about it.
For a long time I was sad about losing this friend because I really liked her otherwise. I thought that maybe I overreacted about the vaccination thing. We are still Facebook friends, though, and the longer I know her, the more I am confident that breaking up with her was a good decision. We really just don't have that much in common, and I would go so far as to say that anyone who doesn't vaccinate is probably not going to be someone I have a lot in common with. Non-vaccinating is a sign that we are just coming from totally different places in our lives and way of thinking.
I told my anti-vax friends that we could still see each other at girls' nights, but our kids wouldn't be hanging out with each other. She understood and that's what we do.
I would never knowingly have my child around unvaccinated children. When she asks to hang out invite her out to an adult only coffee or something if you really want to see her. If she wants to do a kid thing say "I don't feel comfortable having my child around other children who aren't vaccinated." There are consequences for your actions and this is one of those consequences for her.
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My friend has been having this issue lately with an anti-vax family member and has been asking me how to help respond to the anti-vax arguments so I've been thinking about this issue from different angles. One question I have is, do kids that are unvaccinated transmit diseases at a higher rate than vaccinated kids? I'm admittedly not real up on disease transmission and I understand that unvaccinated children are much more likely to be infected, but does that also mean that their windows for affecting other children is longer too? It seems like if there is a disease in an area, all kids would be carriers, not just the unvaccinated ones. I'm just curious whether it really makes much of a difference whether the other kids are vaccinated or unvaccinated - if you're really being protective shouldn't you keep all other kids away from your infant? I haven't spent the time researching yet, but just wondering if anyone knows of any studies that discuss this and hopefully I don't sound stupid with this question.
Post by pinkdutchtulips on Jan 27, 2015 12:44:27 GMT -5
my sister's kids are unvaxed and yes my vaxed dd has hung out w/ them. why ? bc we RARELY see them - they live in MI and we're in CA. in the 5 years dd's been alive I think she's been around them 3 times (xmas 2010, my gpa's 90th bday in 2013 and easter 2014).
thankfully most people I know vax their kids ... and are horrified at the thought of NOT vaxing kids period (some have done the standard vax schedule, others the delayed one but everyone is up to date on their shots).
I think once my kid was fully vaxxed I'd see this as less of an issue. It never occurred to me to ask about people's vaccination status when DD was little, it may be more of an issue now that I've heard/talked about it more.
My brother and SIL don't vaccinate, but they live on the opposite coast and we see them maybe 1x/year. Everyone's kids are old enough that I don't consider it in my travel/interaction plans.
Newp. Still don't want my kid around unvaxxed kids. There is always a chance that a vaxxed kid can get some of these diseases and I am not willing to take that chance.
This makes me a little sad. At DS's 9 month check up this week, the pediatrician reaffirmed that he cannot get the MMR or chicken pox at his 1 year because of DD's chemo treatments. I am totally on board for vaccinations, normally. If I did vaccinate we would have to separate the kids for at least 3 weeks, which is just impossible. I am hoping that DS will be able to get his shots once DD is further along in treatment.
I just hate that they are both vulnerable and that the freaking measles are something I need to worry about.
As soon as I found out one of our friends/acquaintances didn't vaccinate, I stopped hanging out with them. We were part of a mommy group, and I just stopped inviting her to events.
This... I just sideyed my chiro (but I know they are hippy-dippy) when he told me he dosen't vax and made a mental not to not invite him/his kid to any more events at my house... so sad, but my kid's health is more important?
Exactly. I had the same thought. I was like, "I like you, but I have to protect my son." Period. I felt like that was the most important decision I needed to make for him, KWIM? To protect him from situations where he cannot protect himself. I think unvaxxed kids definitely quality. I mean, what if DS got measles or mumps or tetanus from this kid?!? I would never ever forgive myself.
If your son got tentanus from anyone, that would be quite a feat.
Haha fair enough, bad example. I was just rattling off diseases I know DS is vaccinated for.
This makes me a little sad. At DS's 9 month check up this week, the pediatrician reaffirmed that he cannot get the MMR or chicken pox at his 1 year because of DD's chemo treatments. I am totally on board for vaccinations, normally. If I did vaccinate we would have to separate the kids for at least 3 weeks, which is just impossible. I am hoping that DS will be able to get his shots once DD is further along in treatment.
I just hate that they are both vulnerable and that the freaking measles are something I need to worry about.
I hope you don't think people are judging you for not vaxing your son on schedule this time. Things like that are completely and totally legitimate exceptions, I think. I wouldn't think twice about DD being around kids who were delayed on a vaccination for that reason (unless her germs made you uncomfortable).
I wouldn't bring my too young to vaccinate baby around them, that's for sure. Once my children were fully vaccinated then I might consider doing a park date.
This what kills me about taking my children to the park, there are several children running around, coughing, wiping their noses and touching shit and there's my kids right there in the middle of it. One big petri dish of germs. The measles virus can live on a surface for 2 hours and the first symptoms look like the common cold before the rash pops up. How many time have you seen some 2 year old on the slide with snot running down their nose?
We have a measles scare going on right now at a local Costco. COSTCO, where everyone touches things. So gross.
One question I have is, do kids that are unvaccinated transmit diseases at a higher rate than vaccinated kids? I'm admittedly not real up on disease transmission and I understand that unvaccinated children are much more likely to be infected, but does that also mean that their windows for affecting other children is longer too? It seems like if there is a disease in an area, all kids would be carriers, not just the unvaccinated ones. I'm just curious whether it really makes much of a difference whether the other kids are vaccinated or unvaccinated - if you're really being protective shouldn't you keep all other kids away from your infant? I haven't spent the time researching yet, but just wondering if anyone knows of any studies that discuss this and hopefully I don't sound stupid with this question.
I would want to know some details like this, too, before I made any decisions on hanging out. It may be NBD and/or NBD after a certain age. In general, if a kid is symptomatic with anything (either mine or friends & family) we let each other know and usually keep germy kids apart. I think I'd be more worried about the unvaccinated kids than my own; if vaccines are effective then they're the ones more likely to get measles or some other shit at that must be pretty miserable :/
So, I did a little looking and kind of feel like an idiot (was going to do an ETA on my first post, but I'll just respond here), but for things like measles, you can't spread the disease unless you are actually infected. So that means that a vaccinated kid shouldn't get infected and therefore wouldn't even have the opportunity to spread the disease. Also, it sounds like some vaccines can stop a person from transmitting the disease even if they get infected (I found an article that talked about how the new pertussis vaccines aren't actually stopping the spread of disease through vaccinated baboons - news.sciencemag.org/health/2013/11/whooping-cough-vaccine-does-not-stop-spread-disease-lab-animals).
In my initial question, I guess I was thinking more in terms of if 3 kids are playing - infected kid I (due to anti-vax or insufficient vaccinations), kid A (not vaccinated), and kid B (vaccinated) - and they're playing with community toys. If Kid I gets his germs on any of those community toys and then kid A OR kid B comes over to your house with some of those infected toys, the germs will be passed on to your house. It doesn't really matter whether kid A or B is vaccinated or actually infected. This all depends on how long the disease can live on inanimate objects too. Thinking like that makes me want to just keep my kid in a bubble (which isn't a realistic option) and yell at all the people who haven't vaccinated and allowed these diseases to come back (assuming they don't have a legitimate reason not to vax).
This makes me a little sad. At DS's 9 month check up this week, the pediatrician reaffirmed that he cannot get the MMR or chicken pox at his 1 year because of DD's chemo treatments. I am totally on board for vaccinations, normally. If I did vaccinate we would have to separate the kids for at least 3 weeks, which is just impossible. I am hoping that DS will be able to get his shots once DD is further along in treatment.
I just hate that they are both vulnerable and that the freaking measles are something I need to worry about.
Please don't feel like this was sort of an attack against being around your and your unvaxxed kid for a valid medical reason. I hate hate anti-vaxxers because they put kids like yours in danger. This is why I can't be friends with someone who willingly did not vax their kids because of those damn ingredients.
She is a close friend so I'd hate to not talk to her but I have no issue saying I want to wait until they're a year or something. It sucks but I guess a conversation I need to have. And yes she does make other stupid parenting choices.
Good luck! I had what I thought was a close friend and she decided to end our friendship because I told her I wasn't comfortable having my son around her daughter that's not vaccinated. I figured she would eventually vaccinate and they could hang out then. But nope she was so offended that she felt we no longer could be friends. Oookkk! She even added this is just another way her daughter will be discriminated against. Yea ok!
She is a close friend so I'd hate to not talk to her but I have no issue saying I want to wait until they're a year or something. It sucks but I guess a conversation I need to have. And yes she does make other stupid parenting choices.
Good luck! I had what I thought was a close friend and she decided to end our friendship because I told her I wasn't comfortable having my son around her daughter that's not vaccinated. I figured she would eventually vaccinate and they could hang out then. But nope she was so offended that she felt we no longer could be friends. Oookkk! She even added this is just another way her daughter will be discriminated against. Yea ok!