What the hell are we eating/drinking/breathing that's causing so many women to have such low milk production? Women have BF'd for thousands of years; there was no other choice. All women theoretically CAN BF. Is it the fluoride? The aluminum? The HFC?
:::adjusts tin foil hat:::
honestly I think the loss of the communal aspect of it is part of it. I feel like this is the sort of thing that mothers might have helped their daughters wtih, kwim? But we have generations where nursing was very uncommon. Im lucky, again, to have a mom who did nurse a lot... but anecdotally, Im not sure if that is the norm. Thats why I like going to meetings. I dont usually go with any questions or anything but something about sitting around with a bunch of women also nursing their kids is helpful. This is why I hate the anti-NIP stuff that is out there... if NIP was accepted, people would SEE it more, and it would help with the communal part of it.
So anyhow... there is a lot of misinfo out there, many people dont realize HOW MUCH you have to nurse a baby early on, or get caught up in measuring their pump output, etc etc. Because nursing is done in private, hidden away. So people dont KNOW. Rambling, sorry.
Also, neither Reglan nor Domperidone are blackmarket or illegal. Using these loaded terms is just as harmful as calling formula poison.
sorry... i was talking about the pp who mentioned people buying it without a Rx, so yeah, that is illegal etc. I should have clarified. If I was to the point where buying a drug in that channel was my only option left? Id most certainly be supplementing.
What the hell are we eating/drinking/breathing that's causing so many women to have such low milk production? Women have BF'd for thousands of years; there was no other choice. All women theoretically CAN BF. Is it the fluoride? The aluminum? The HFC?
:::adjusts tin foil hat:::
We don't really know the statistics, though. Also, if women were "barren" and weren't able to have kids for relatively minor reasons that we can help now, we have no clue if they would have had problems breastfeeding.
Also, moms are getting older, that could explain some of it.
Just saying, the reasons could be due to some combination of statistics/sample size and demographics and not necessarily anything sinister.
All good points. Certainly no one did a survey 500 years ago to see how many women had issues. I'm not saying there's sinister going on, but there is SO much crap in our environment and we have no idea what kind of effects they are having on us.
"the article is stating that women push themselves too far to try and make it work, when it isn't necessary, is could be dangerous."
But they are defining "pushing too far" as taking fenugreek, pumping, and/or taking prescription meds, etc. This isn't pushing too far. This is pretty normal. I'm not sure where the danger comes in.
We don't really know the statistics, though. Also, if women were "barren" and weren't able to have kids for relatively minor reasons that we can help now, we have no clue if they would have had problems breastfeeding.
Also, moms are getting older, that could explain some of it.
Just saying, the reasons could be due to some combination of statistics/sample size and demographics and not necessarily anything sinister.
All good points. Certainly no one did a survey 500 years ago to see how many women had issues. I'm not saying there's sinister going on, but there is SO much crap in our environment and we have no idea what kind of effects they are having on us.
meh - we have a pretty good idea on a lot of the effects on us. Milk ducts and their related hormones are pretty well studied.
I think the *real* issue is calling this an issue at all. Somehow we can all take asprin for headaches and no one bats and eye, put plastic lens on our eyeballs and every yells, "yay science" - but suddenly you try out an herbal tea and its all ZOMGS WHATS WRONG WITH OUR WOORLD!!!"
There is a best practice to everything. There isn't anything wrong with there being a best practice for milk production.
Also, neither Reglan nor Domperidone are blackmarket or illegal. Using these loaded terms is just as harmful as calling formula poison.
Domperidone is not approved by the FDA FOR ANY USE. So yes, in the US, it is illegal to sell it.
When you buy drugs from Canada in a shady manner (and buying them without a prescription is pretty shady by definition), you run the risk that whatever pills you are sent will not contain the active ingredient you desire. Truth.
I find it iroic that women who would take grey-market drugs that have NEVER been found to be beneficial nor studied in breastfeeding women will refrain from taking Category C drugs that are generally recognized as safe and procured from a legit source.
All this Uber-Boober rhetoric reminds me of the bootstrappers. Breastfeeding bootstraps for everyone!
Also, neither Reglan nor Domperidone are blackmarket or illegal. Using these loaded terms is just as harmful as calling formula poison.
Domperidone is not approved by the FDA FOR ANY USE. So yes, in the US, it is illegal to sell it.
When you buy drugs from Canada in a shady manner (and buying them without a prescription is pretty shady by definition), you run the risk that whatever pills you are sent will not contain the active ingredient you desire. Truth.
I find it iroic that women who would take grey-market drugs that have NEVER been found to be beneficial nor studied in breastfeeding women will refrain from taking Category C drugs that are generally recognized as safe and procured from a legit source.
All this Uber-Boober rhetoric reminds me of the bootstrappers. Breastfeeding bootstraps for everyone!
It's not illegal to buy domperidone from Canada. I can't decipher your other comments.
Post by cookiemdough on Aug 7, 2012 16:37:35 GMT -5
I am actually surprised that we are suggesting that using prescription drugs for off label uses is the same as using herbal supplements or adding in extra pumping sessions. It is okay to draw a line at some point.
I am actually surprised that we are suggesting that using prescription drugs for off label uses is the same as using herbal supplements or adding in extra pumping sessions. It is okay to draw a line at some point.
I am actually surprised that we are suggesting that using prescription drugs for off label uses is the same as using herbal supplements or adding in extra pumping sessions. It is okay to draw a line at some point.
We aren't suggesting it. Doctors suggest it.
Is that from momi's article? Because I haven't read that one yet. It sounds like from the article in the OP the LC's are suggesting it. Isn't that part of the whole discussion? Women are using alternative routes to get the meds because they can't get them from their doctors?
So is there a reason we can't work on a standard for LC's, make sure all hospitals have one on call or in the building at all times, and start pushing pedis and ob's to network with them?
You know, instead of being a formula nazi I mean.
Also, I'm sure I've said this before, but along with the "everyone can bf" meme, can we do away with the "it doesn't hurt" one as well? Obviously, it shouldn't hurt for long and yes, high levels of pain can indicate and issue but dude, it just hurts for a bit, mmkay?
I mean I know, I know, people are scared if they tell women that the idea of putting your kid on your tit for the first two weeks will probably make you cry women won't breastfeed but I'm not sure how you can say that given we all know labor hurts like a sonofabitch and yet here we all are, popping out babies.
Domperidone is not approved by the FDA FOR ANY USE. So yes, in the US, it is illegal to sell it.
When you buy drugs from Canada in a shady manner (and buying them without a prescription is pretty shady by definition), you run the risk that whatever pills you are sent will not contain the active ingredient you desire. Truth.
I find it iroic that women who would take grey-market drugs that have NEVER been found to be beneficial nor studied in breastfeeding women will refrain from taking Category C drugs that are generally recognized as safe and procured from a legit source.
All this Uber-Boober rhetoric reminds me of the bootstrappers. Breastfeeding bootstraps for everyone!
It's not illegal to buy domperidone from Canada. I can't decipher your other comments.
Domperidone cannot be sold in the US.
When you buy medications online, you may not get what you ordered. Or you may get expired meds. Or meds made in China with melamine in them. So you are taking a risk.
Women who are willing to order meds online may be the same women who refuse to take widely prescribed medications--both Rx and OTC--because they are pregnancy category C, which means they have not been studied in pregnant women (although there may be wide clinical experience).
A study in 16 women does not a statistically reliable sample make, so the evidence base in use of domperidone is negligible.
So is there a reason we can't work on a standard for LC's, make sure all hospitals have one on call or in the building at all times, and start pushing pedis and ob's to network with them?
You know, instead of being a formula nazi I mean.
Also, I'm sure I've said this before, but along with the "everyone can bf" meme, can we do away with the "it doesn't hurt" one as well? Obviously, it shouldn't hurt for long and yes, high levels of pain can indicate and issue but dude, it just hurts for a bit, mmkay?
I mean I know, I know, people are scared if they tell women that the idea of putting your kid on your tit for the first two weeks will probably make you cry women won't breastfeed but I'm not sure how you can say that given we all know labor hurts like a sonofabitch and yet here we all are, popping out babies.
When you buy medications online, you may not get what you ordered. Or you may get expired meds. Or meds made in China with melamine in them. So you are taking a risk.
And, buying an herbal supplement in the US is different how? They're not regulated, there's no guarantee that what's in the bottle is actually what they claim it is. There's no requirement to prove efficacy or safety. And it could easily have been processed in China.
Is that from momi's article? Because I haven't read that one yet. It sounds like from the article in the OP the LC's are suggesting it. Isn't that part of the whole discussion? Women are using alternative routes to get the meds because they can't get them from their doctors?
You can't get reglan except from a doctor. My script came from my doctor.
Domperidone only comes from Canada and no script is needed but it it still may be recommended by doctors.
And I am pretty sure you don't want to know my answer for why there is no regulation of LCs. LOLOLOLOLOL
Hint: it is a man-hating answer.
There is... Add I said before, there is IBCLC certification...
But most hospitals don't want to have their people go through that (long time, exams, etc) when they can pick a nurse and say 'you're the Lactation person. Have fun with that.'
Also, it's having nobody out there preventing the individual LC just setting up shop.
Which is why when I talk to people, I always tell them to find an IBCLC.
So is there a reason we can't work on a standard for LC's, make sure all hospitals have one on call or in the building at all times, and start pushing pedis and ob's to network with them?
You know, instead of being a formula nazi I mean.
Also, I'm sure I've said this before, but along with the "everyone can bf" meme, can we do away with the "it doesn't hurt" one as well? Obviously, it shouldn't hurt for long and yes, high levels of pain can indicate and issue but dude, it just hurts for a bit, mmkay?
I mean I know, I know, people are scared if they tell women that the idea of putting your kid on your tit for the first two weeks will probably make you cry women won't breastfeed but I'm not sure how you can say that given we all know labor hurts like a sonofabitch and yet here we all are, popping out babies.
Seriously. I was shocked at how much it hurt. I cried every time I nursed. After two weeks it got much better but those two weeks were rough.
Has anyone else here read "Nursing Your Baby" by Karen Pryor? She addresses a lot of these issues - the pain, the exhaustion, women trying to do everything, etc. her advice was really spot on for me.
I'm on dom right now. This is not the first time I've had to take drugs that the FDA doesn't approve of (though this is the first time I've been in the States while doing it) and I was comfortable after talking it over with an RN/IBCLC.
Why am I on it? For me, I think it will be a temporary measure but I had a HUGE supply dip in anticipation of returning to work and DD's weight suffered for it. She's intolerant of dairy, soy, and corn and hypoallergenic formulas are not covered by my insurance company so there was lots of financial pressure for me to get my supply up fast - plus the fact that DD rejected Nutramigen. Now that things are a little less stressful, I plan to wean off the dom. I am sososo glad that it was there to get me through this first week+ at work.
It's not illegal to buy domperidone from Canada. I can't decipher your other comments.
Domperidone cannot be sold in the US.
When you buy medications online, you may not get what you ordered. Or you may get expired meds. Or meds made in China with melamine in them. So you are taking a risk.
Women who are willing to order meds online may be the same women who refuse to take widely prescribed medications--both Rx and OTC--because they are pregnancy category C, which means they have not been studied in pregnant women (although there may be wide clinical experience).
A study in 16 women does not a statistically reliable sample make, so the evidence base in use of domperidone is negligible.
My domperidone was not puchased online, from overseas, or in a back alley. It was bought in a compounding chain pharmacy on the Upper East Side, with a prescription from a licensed MD. An MD (and LC) that discussed the pros and cons with me, told me that it was an off-label use, and followed up with me in office visits one week and 3 weeks later.
To quote heyjude again, neither Reglan nor Domperidone are blackmarket or illegal. Using these loaded terms is just as harmful as calling formula poison.
Post by cookiemdough on Aug 7, 2012 19:11:58 GMT -5
How so? While bfing is preferable there are no negative side effects of formula. Formula is specifically made to provide nutrition for a baby. These drugs are not intended for the purpose in which they are being used. don't see how this is anything like the formula is poison rhetoric.
So is there a reason we can't work on a standard for LC's, make sure all hospitals have one on call or in the building at all times, and start pushing pedis and ob's to network with them?
You know, instead of being a formula nazi I mean.
Also, I'm sure I've said this before, but along with the "everyone can bf" meme, can we do away with the "it doesn't hurt" one as well? Obviously, it shouldn't hurt for long and yes, high levels of pain can indicate and issue but dude, it just hurts for a bit, mmkay?
I mean I know, I know, people are scared if they tell women that the idea of putting your kid on your tit for the first two weeks will probably make you cry women won't breastfeed but I'm not sure how you can say that given we all know labor hurts like a sonofabitch and yet here we all are, popping out babies.
Seriously. I was shocked at how much it hurt. I cried every time I nursed. After two weeks it got much better but those two weeks were rough.
Has anyone else here read "Nursing Your Baby" by Karen Pryor? She addresses a lot of these issues - the pain, the exhaustion, women trying to do everything, etc. her advice was really spot on for me.
Andy is 4 weeks old today and I'm just starting to feel like nursing is more comfortable. I'll have to pick up that book--I could use some support on the BFing end.
But habs is right. I think the promotional propaganda to get women to BF actually does most of us a disservice. I consider myself well read, connected, and informed, not to mention well supported by female friends and family, and I had no fucking clue how hard BFing would be. Labor was a cakewalk by comparison--and I labored for 24 hours without drugs. I would do it a thousand times over before going through what I did with Andy this past month. I will BF my next kids, because hopefully the learning curve will be lessened, but I'm pretty sure if I could go back in time, I would FF Andy from the start. And you know, actually enjoy my son during his first month of life.