"A*, B2, B3, C2, C3, D2, D3, D4, D5, D6, D7, D8, D9, D10, D11, G2, G3, H1, H2 these are all the measles strains that have been identified since 1990. That little * there is the only strain of measles that currently has a vaccine." Their source: www.cdc.gov/measles/lab-tools/genetic-analysis.html Their friend replied "Wait! You're telling me all those people at Disney aren't my fault after all?! It just can't be!" And they replied "Well unless information like this gets shared then no it will still be our "fault" even though we are not the cause"
I don't know the answer to your question but they did not quote the asterisk at all. Just put their own words in there. This is what it actually says - *Vaccine strains Moraten, Edmonston, Zagreb are all genotype A. There were 2 putative wild-type cases of measles identified as genotype A in 2008.
"A*, B2, B3, C2, C3, D2, D3, D4, D5, D6, D7, D8, D9, D10, D11, G2, G3, H1, H2 these are all the measles strains that have been identified since 1990. That little * there is the only strain of measles that currently has a vaccine." Their source: www.cdc.gov/measles/lab-tools/genetic-analysis.html Their friend replied "Wait! You're telling me all those people at Disney aren't my fault after all?! It just can't be!" And they replied "Well unless information like this gets shared then no it will still be our "fault" even though we are not the cause"
Sorry, I am not an immunologist and can't follow exactly. I am guessing she is confusing genotyping the rubeuola virus by the CDC to see where the origin of certain genotypes of the virus are coming from for worldwide tracking as evidence that the Type A genotype does not cover all the others. That isn't the case. I can't remember why, so I hope a biologist comes in, but the immunization actually is sometimes a more generic genotype so that your body will recognize many genotypes of a disease and react accordingly. Basically it's good we're not seeing "Type A" genotypes - that means that the Type-A vaccine is not producing actual cases of the disease. Again, it's been awhile since I took classes on viruses and replication, so forgive me if that's pretty broad response. I just think your FB "friend" is comparing apples to oranges - they don't understand that science.
Isn't getting vaccination advice from a cardiologist about the same as having a poedistrist give you a heart transplant? Is he even qualified to make statements like that?
"A*, B2, B3, C2, C3, D2, D3, D4, D5, D6, D7, D8, D9, D10, D11, G2, G3, H1, H2 these are all the measles strains that have been identified since 1990. That little * there is the only strain of measles that currently has a vaccine." Their source: www.cdc.gov/measles/lab-tools/genetic-analysis.html Their friend replied "Wait! You're telling me all those people at Disney aren't my fault after all?! It just can't be!" And they replied "Well unless information like this gets shared then no it will still be our "fault" even though we are not the cause"
I don't know the answer to your question but they did not quote the asterisk at all. Just put their own words in there. This is what it actually says - *Vaccine strains Moraten, Edmonston, Zagreb are all genotype A. There were 2 putative wild-type cases of measles identified as genotype A in 2008.
Thanks! I noticed that, too. Unfortunately anti-vax "arguments" are typically formed exactly this way - by wording things the way they would like for them to be read. It's also one of the most annoying part of them thinking they have a legitimate argument.
I don't believe that guy is a doctor. I googled him, and Google seems to think he is, but I cannot fathom a healthcare working believing that Hep B is a virus only drug users and people who sleep with prostitutes contract. Healthcare workers are at extremely high risk for contracting Hep B, and it's one of the most common liver diseases. Any physician who discounts Hep B should lose his fucking license.
"A*, B2, B3, C2, C3, D2, D3, D4, D5, D6, D7, D8, D9, D10, D11, G2, G3, H1, H2 these are all the measles strains that have been identified since 1990. That little * there is the only strain of measles that currently has a vaccine." Their source: www.cdc.gov/measles/lab-tools/genetic-analysis.html Their friend replied "Wait! You're telling me all those people at Disney aren't my fault after all?! It just can't be!" And they replied "Well unless information like this gets shared then no it will still be our "fault" even though we are not the cause"
Sorry, I am not an immunologist and can't follow exactly. I am guessing she is confusing genotyping the rubeuola virus by the CDC to see where the origin of certain genotypes of the virus are coming from for worldwide tracking as evidence that the Type A genotype does not cover all the others. That isn't the case. I can't remember why, so I hope a biologist comes in, but the immunization actually is sometimes a more generic genotype so that your body will recognize many genotypes of a disease and react accordingly. Basically it's good we're not seeing "Type A" genotypes - that means that the Type-A vaccine is not producing actual cases of the disease. Again, it's been awhile since I took classes on viruses and replication, so forgive me if that's pretty broad response. I just think your FB "friend" is comparing apples to oranges - they don't understand that science.
Thanks! I figured it was something along those lines. That the vaccine for A is applicable to a majority (if not all?) strains. Obviously the vaccine is effective, regardless of the strains and genotype argument they are trying to make, otherwise the outbreak would be tenfold what it currently is.
Sorry, I am not an immunologist and can't follow exactly. I am guessing she is confusing genotyping the rubeuola virus by the CDC to see where the origin of certain genotypes of the virus are coming from for worldwide tracking as evidence that the Type A genotype does not cover all the others. That isn't the case. I can't remember why, so I hope a biologist comes in, but the immunization actually is sometimes a more generic genotype so that your body will recognize many genotypes of a disease and react accordingly. Basically it's good we're not seeing "Type A" genotypes - that means that the Type-A vaccine is not producing actual cases of the disease. Again, it's been awhile since I took classes on viruses and replication, so forgive me if that's pretty broad response. I just think your FB "friend" is comparing apples to oranges - they don't understand that science.
Thanks! I figured it was something along those lines. That the vaccine for A is applicable to a majority (if not all?) strains. Obviously the vaccine is effective, regardless of the strains and genotype argument they are trying to make, otherwise the outbreak would be tenfold what it currently is.
Plus you can just post this graphic and say, "I would love for you to further describe genotyping of viruses and it's use for infectious disease tracking. Until you get to that, you can see that the US has developed a "Type A" genotype vaccine to deal with all different kinds of genotypes of measles b/c we have a lot of world travelers and get a lot of different genotypes of the disease from all over the world!"
Thanks! I figured it was something along those lines. That the vaccine for A is applicable to a majority (if not all?) strains. Obviously the vaccine is effective, regardless of the strains and genotype argument they are trying to make, otherwise the outbreak would be tenfold what it currently is.
Plus you can just post this graphic and say, "I would love for you to further describe genotyping of viruses and it's use for infectious disease tracking. Until you get to that, you can see that the US has developed a "Type A" genotype vaccine to deal with all different kinds of genotypes of measles b/c we have a lot of world travelers and get a lot of different genotypes of the disease from all over the world!"
I don't believe that guy is a doctor. I googled him, and Google seems to think he is, but I cannot fathom a healthcare working believing that Hep B is a virus only drug users and people who sleep with prostitutes contract. Healthcare workers are at extremely high risk for contracting Hep B, and it's one of the most common liver diseases. Any physician who discounts Hep B should lose his fucking license.
He doesn't come up on Arizona's medical licensing board search.
I don't believe that guy is a doctor. I googled him, and Google seems to think he is, but I cannot fathom a healthcare working believing that Hep B is a virus only drug users and people who sleep with prostitutes contract. Healthcare workers are at extremely high risk for contracting Hep B, and it's one of the most common liver diseases. Any physician who discounts Hep B should lose his fucking license.
He doesn't come up on Arizona's medical licensing board search.
Post by dawnzersong on Jan 29, 2015 15:50:35 GMT -5
"In fact, be angry with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates for creating computers so you can sit around all day blasted with electromagnetic radiation reading posts like this."
LOLhulksmash!
If computers are so dangerous, why is he sitting in front of one typing a wall of nonsense?
"In fact, be angry with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates for creating computers so you can sit around all day blasted with electromagnetic radiation reading posts like this."
LOLhulksmash!
If computers are so dangerous, why is he sitting in front of one typing a wall of nonsense?
Also, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates did not "create computers", fuckhead asshole doctor. Personal computer, perhaps. But not "computers".
Can we google bomb this asshole? I think dude needs the Megan Heimer (who spreads misinformation and compromises public health) treatment.
OH MY GOD I would flip my shit if my immune-compromised child or newborn (if I had either of these) were exposed to measles in the fucking hospital. WTF!?!?!
This is where I'm at. I'm trying to imagine if one of my children was receiving chemo for leukemia and was exposed to measles while in the hospital. Holy shit I would need to be tranquilized.
"A*, B2, B3, C2, C3, D2, D3, D4, D5, D6, D7, D8, D9, D10, D11, G2, G3, H1, H2 these are all the measles strains that have been identified since 1990. That little * there is the only strain of measles that currently has a vaccine." Their source: www.cdc.gov/measles/lab-tools/genetic-analysis.html Their friend replied "Wait! You're telling me all those people at Disney aren't my fault after all?! It just can't be!" And they replied "Well unless information like this gets shared then no it will still be our "fault" even though we are not the cause"
Sorry, I am not an immunologist and can't follow exactly. I am guessing she is confusing genotyping the rubeuola virus by the CDC to see where the origin of certain genotypes of the virus are coming from for worldwide tracking as evidence that the Type A genotype does not cover all the others. That isn't the case. I can't remember why, so I hope a biologist comes in, but the immunization actually is sometimes a more generic genotype so that your body will recognize many genotypes of a disease and react accordingly. Basically it's good we're not seeing "Type A" genotypes - that means that the Type-A vaccine is not producing actual cases of the disease. Again, it's been awhile since I took classes on viruses and replication, so forgive me if that's pretty broad response. I just think your FB "friend" is comparing apples to oranges - they don't understand that science.
epphd (or someone)-- can you "like I'm 5" this to me? I want to be prepared if it comes up.
Post by thecatinthehat on Jan 29, 2015 16:33:58 GMT -5
The other I hate about vaccine debates is that they make up so much of their data. Or interpret legit science to suit their own needs. The you go off to google to find more info of this bullshit and all your find are antivax shit and it takes all but an hour to realize a fucking graph that they've curculated around them was either make up or tweaked to support their agenda. I find it really useless to argue with people who have gone down a antivax rabbit hole. I'd rather educate people who are just "my friend said they are bad" or are not too far deep. The others just make me rage or weep for humanity.
Sorry, I am not an immunologist and can't follow exactly. I am guessing she is confusing genotyping the rubeuola virus by the CDC to see where the origin of certain genotypes of the virus are coming from for worldwide tracking as evidence that the Type A genotype does not cover all the others. That isn't the case. I can't remember why, so I hope a biologist comes in, but the immunization actually is sometimes a more generic genotype so that your body will recognize many genotypes of a disease and react accordingly. Basically it's good we're not seeing "Type A" genotypes - that means that the Type-A vaccine is not producing actual cases of the disease. Again, it's been awhile since I took classes on viruses and replication, so forgive me if that's pretty broad response. I just think your FB "friend" is comparing apples to oranges - they don't understand that science.
epphd (or someone)-- can you "like I'm 5" this to me? I want to be prepared if it comes up.
I'll try - I may enlist DH later as he studies antiviral immunity and his collaborators study viral evolution. Here are some tidbits from the CDC website (various links):
This blurb is from a page that describes how genetic classification can be done. This is really for scientists/epidemiologists looking at disease spread. The most variable parts of the virus are described.
"Wild-type measles viruses have been divided into distinct genetic groups, referred to as genotypes, based on the nucleotide sequences of their hemagglutinin (H) and nucleoprotein (N) genes, which are the most variable genes on the viral genome.
The 450 nucleotides encoding the carboxy-terminal 150 amino acids of the nucleoprotein has up to 12% nucleotide variation between genotypes. The 450 nucleotides that encode the carboxy-terminal region of the nucleoprotein (N–450) are required for determination of the genotype. The measles genotyping protocol is available from CDC."
However, just because parts of the virus vary doesn't mean that the antibodies elicited by the vaccine do not recognize ALL STRAINS. Indeed:
"There is only one antigenic type of measles virus. Although studies have documented changes in the H glycoprotein, these changes do not appear to be epidemiologically important (i.e., no change in vaccine efficacy has been observed)."
Measles vaccine is one of the most efficacious vaccines presently available [113]. Seroconversion rates have exceeded 98% in children aged ≥12 months for most vaccines studied [9, 103, 114–116, 186, 187]. These data lead to the conclusion that there are no significant differences between seroconversion rates of the different vaccine strains.
On the basis of the sequences of their N and H genes, MeVs (Measles virus) can be assigned to 1 of 23 genotypes and 1 provisional genotype [11, 12]. All vaccine strains and their wild-type progenitors are assigned to genotype A. Experiments with monoclonal antibodies have defined antigenic differences between the H proteins of genotype A vaccines and the H proteins of wild-type viruses grouped in other genotypes [62, 188, 189]. However, there is only 1 serotype for measles, and serum samples from vaccinees neutralize viruses from a wide range of genotypes, albeit with different neutralization titers [188, 190] More importantly, despite the presence of different endemic genotypes, vaccination programs with standard measles vaccines have been successful in every country where they were performed adequately [191–193]. Suboptimal seroconversion after vaccination is likely the result of inadequate coverage; improper administration, transport, or storage of vaccine; or age of the vaccine recipients [194–196].
and furthermore (again from the CDC):
Measles vaccine produces an inapparent or mild, noncommunicable infection. Measles antibodies develop in approximately 95% of children vaccinated at 12 months of age and 98% of children vaccinated at 15 months of age. Seroconversion rates are similar for single-antigen measles vaccine, MMR, and MMRV. Approximately 2%–5% of children who receive only one dose of MMR vaccine fail to respond to it (i.e., primary vaccine failure). MMR vaccine failure may occur because of passive antibody in the vaccine recipient, damaged vaccine, incorrect records, or possibly other reasons. Most persons who fail to respond to the first dose will respond to a second dose. Studies indicate that more than 99% of persons who receive two doses of measles vaccine (with the first dose administered no earlier than the first birthday) develop serologic evidence of measles immunity.
Although the titer of vaccine-induced antibodies is lower than that following natural disease, both serologic and epidemiologic evidence indicate that vaccine-induced immunity appears to be long-term and probably lifelong in most persons. Most vaccinated persons who appear to lose antibody show an anamnestic immune response upon revaccination, indicating that they are probably still immune. Although revaccination can increase antibody titer in some persons, available data indicate that the increased titer may not be sustained. Some studies indicate that secondary vaccine failure (waning immunity) may occur after successful vaccination, but this appears to occur rarely and to play only a minor role in measles transmission and outbreaks.
So basically, yep there are lots and lots of measles strains. And the vaccine we give now offers protection against all of them.
This likely works because, despite there being some variation in protein sequence in different strains, those parts of the virus are not what is targeted by the antibodies induced by the vaccine. Sort of like if you know a thief in a crowd always wears a red hat. Whether he is wearing purple versus yellow shoes, or a paisley versus striped tie -- doesn't matter. The red hat is what you are looking for. The vaccine presumably induced antibodies that recognize an invariant portion of a viral protein. Little known fact - identification of antibody epitopes (the part of the antibody target that is the "red hat") is really tricky. Furthermore, using that information to design new antibodies is almost impossible. It's something that many immunologists are studying hard!
The vaccine fight is raging on a local board, with this just posted. I had to share:
"I can tell you with certainty that some Big Pharma marketing team somewhere made a conscious decision to use extreme fear-mongering techniques and pit parents against each other. It is a PR campaign, and that does not make it truth. Ghost writers are paid to write inflammatory pieces. What you are seeing in the media is not at all true journalism."
The vaccine fight is raging on a local board, with this just posted. I had to share:
"I can tell you with certainty that some Big Pharma marketing team somewhere made a conscious decision to use extreme fear-mongering techniques and pit parents against each other. It is a PR campaign, and that does not make it truth. Ghost writers are paid to write inflammatory pieces. What you are seeing in the media is not at all true journalism."
The vaccine fight is raging on a local board, with this just posted. I had to share:
"I can tell you with certainty that some Big Pharma marketing team somewhere made a conscious decision to use extreme fear-mongering techniques and pit parents against each other. It is a PR campaign, and that does not make it truth. Ghost writers are paid to write inflammatory pieces. What you are seeing in the media is not at all true journalism."
This just happened in Fresno Ca. A man with measles visited a L&D.
Fuuuuuck.
And a Build-a-Bear and the Disney Store. He must have been trying to get people, specifically children, sick. There aren't even words for the anger I feel about this whole thing.
I think it was a relative of a new mom, my guess is grandma and grandpa went shopping. I bet they went to build a bear to get a gift for baby and Disney to get a big sibling gift then headed to the hospital to visit. With the longer unsymptomatic period I bet he just didn't know. But I kind of don't want to imagine that anyone out there is insane enough to intentionally expose a bunch of newborns to measles.
Post by picksthemusic on Jan 29, 2015 18:45:38 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm just flabbergasted that people aren't more upset by the prevalence of measles right now. I work in healthcare, at a hospital, and it freaks me out (I know I'm immune by titre check) that I could bring it home to my baby just by walking by someone that sneezes or coughs at the hospital. So scary.
"In fact, be angry with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates for creating computers so you can sit around all day blasted with electromagnetic radiation reading posts like this."
LOLhulksmash!
If computers are so dangerous, why is he sitting in front of one typing a wall of nonsense?
Does he know that visible light is electromagnetic radiation?
A woman in my area came down with measles after she walked around a Dave and Busters, Walmart and a Costco. The Walmart is right next to a huge outlet mall. FFS people, get your vaccinations!