S/O - Head of CDC says vax should be community decision

[downtoearth]

TL:DR: It sounds like the director of the CDC does not support national mandatory vaccination legislation and instead would like to leave it up to schools and communities to decide about vaccinations.  He also sounds very optimistic about most people making the decision to vaccinate and that a lot of them just aren't fully informed yet and seems to think that information and guidance will help increase the rates.  And WOW to 15% of kids unvaccinated in Pennsylvania!  Do they start school at age 4 there (like the cutoff is December)?  I think I read that unvaccinated rates based off school statistics for kindergarteners are up in CA partly from the fact that they have a December cutoff, so a lot of 4 year olds are in K. 

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By/Rebecca Kaplan/Face The Nation/February 1, 2015, 1:58 PM

CDC "very concerned" about potential for large measles outbreak

Tom Frieden, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), said his agency is "very concerned" about the possibility of a large measles outbreak in the U.S. because of the growing number of people who have not been vaccinated against the disease.

"What we've seen is, as over the last few years, a small but growing number of people have not been vaccinated. That number is building up among young adults in society, and that makes us vulnerable," Frieden said in an interview on CBS' "Face the Nation" Sunday. "We have to make sure that measles doesn't get a foothold in the U.S. It's been actually eliminated from this country for 15 years. All of our cases result, ultimately, from individuals who have traveled and brought it back here."

There are at least 102 reported cases of measles in 14 states, according to CDC statistics. Frieden said there will likely be more cases going forward, and the CDC is taking "aggressive public health action" to identify contacts and isolate those infected in order to stop the spread.

But, he said, the disease is preventable and the best way to do that is with the vaccine, which he said is "safe and effective."

There is a 92 percent vaccination rate in the United States, but the number of unvaccinated children is higher in certain states. In California, where an outbreak of the disease has been linked to Disney theme parks in the southern part of the state, 8 percent of kindergarteners fail to get the required immunizations against measles, mumps and rubella. In Pennsylvania, that number rises to 15 percent of kindergarteners.

Frieden said that among the parents who opt out of vaccinations citing a personal belief, "most of them don't have that deeply held concern."

"They just may not recognize that measles is still with us, that it's serious, and that not getting your kid vaccinated is not only a risk for your own kid, but puts other vulnerable kids in your community at risk," he added.

Still, Frieden did not advocate for mandatory vaccination rules akin to states like Mississippi and West Virginia, which have nearly 100 percent vaccination rates. He said it is a decision best left for the school board and the community.

"The future is within our control," he said. "If we vaccinate well, if we increase those vaccination rates, we can stop measles just as we stopped it before."

www.cbsnews.com/news/cdc-very-concerned-about-potential-for-large-measles-outbreak/

[heyjude]

I've never heard of national vaccination legislation. It's always been regulated by the states. I'm confused; does he think not even states should set vaccination policy because if so.... :/

[aurora]

Wow, that really surprises me. Especially with the research out there showing people digging in to their entrenched beliefs when confronted with opposing evidence.

[epphd]

As a public health official, it's Frieden's JOB to take a strong position... this mamby pamby Christie-esque bullshit is unacceptable. Maybe his response was tailored, though, to not rattle the cages of the already reticent anti-vaxxers. By pushing mandatory vaccines, doesn't that play right into the "big government is injecting chemicals into my baby" trope?

I want someone to take a stand - but I don't think Frieden has the credibility at this point to be that person. It's going to take more outbreaks and, I'm sorry to say, more fatalaties and morbidity for people to pull their heads out of their asses.

[NewOrleans]

Well, I agree with him to the extent that it shouldn't take law to make it happen. It should take common sense and information. But since those aren't working, we need to roll out the big guns.

I think his position is stated so as not to alienate people.

[cattledogkisses]

I wonder if PA is so high because of the Amish population. IIRC, they don't vaccinate, although they typically don't send their kids to public schools either, right?

[downtoearth]

Feb 2, 2015 13:11:32 GMT -5 heyjude said:

I've never heard of national vaccination legislation. It's always been regulated by the states. I'm confused; does he think not even states should set vaccination policy because if so.... :/

I changed my comment to reflect the video and his statements - he doesn't want mandatory legislation, and is optimistic that science and knowledge will win out.

[heyjude]

Feb 2, 2015 13:16:35 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

I wonder if PA is so high because of the Amish population. IIRC, they don't vaccinate, although they typically don't send their kids to public schools either, right?

I thought that the Amish don't vaccinate was a myth? No?

[IIOY]

Feb 2, 2015 13:16:35 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

I wonder if PA is so high because of the Amish population. IIRC, they don't vaccinate, although they typically don't send their kids to public schools either, right?

I'm sure that's a big part of it. To the best of my knowledge, we don't have any substantive anti-vax movement here to speak of.

[pixy0stix]

Feb 2, 2015 13:16:35 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

I wonder if PA is so high because of the Amish population. IIRC, they don't vaccinate, although they typically don't send their kids to public schools either, right?

They do vaccinate.

[sangria]

I think he's right though. I think the "community decision" needs to be school districts and pediatricians and camps etc etc saying they will not allow any kids who are not UTD on vaccines for personal beliefs exemptions.

As much as I would love national legislation, that would just push the morons to dig in further.

It has to start with ostracizing families that are choosing this despite all the information to the contrary.

[IIOY]

Feb 2, 2015 13:27:28 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Feb 2, 2015 13:16:35 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

I wonder if PA is so high because of the Amish population. IIRC, they don't vaccinate, although they typically don't send their kids to public schools either, right?

They do vaccinate.

I'm pretty sure they have pockets that don't vaccinate, not because they fear the vaccination but because they don't think it's crucial for them.

[wawa]

Feb 2, 2015 13:09:03 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

 Do they start school at age 4 there (like the cutoff is December)? 

This information is approx. 30 years out of date, but when I was in school the cutoff was September with some sort of grace period if you could show readiness.  One of my BFF's was the youngest person in my class with a Sept 23rd birthday.  So she was 4 for the first month or so of Kindy, but that's it.

No idea if that's still true though. 

[Deleted]

I don't think the Amish population is a large enough portion of the state to skew it if they only have pockets that don't vaccinate.

[ESF]

Feb 2, 2015 13:16:05 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Well, I agree with him to the extent that it shouldn't take law to make it happen. It should take common sense and information. But since those aren't working, we need to roll out the big guns.

I think his position is stated so as not to alienate people.

Yes.

One of the challenges here is that we are dealing with paranoid, anti-government conspiracy theorists. Government legislation only further convinces them that they are right in their decision. I can't believe I'm saying this but more government isn't going to solve this, it's going to make it worse.   

Sane people aren't walking around waiting for CDC press releases to decide whether to vaccinate their kid. The CDC knows this. Instead, I would expect that the CDC has studied the psychology of the anti-vaxxers, and are trying to temper their statements to avoid alienating them and giving them more ammunition for their batshit crazy theories.

[ESF]

Feb 2, 2015 13:27:28 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Feb 2, 2015 13:16:35 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

I wonder if PA is so high because of the Amish population. IIRC, they don't vaccinate, although they typically don't send their kids to public schools either, right?

They do vaccinate.

There was an SVU episode with an unvaxxed Amish kid.  That is all I know about the Amish and vaccinations.

[IIOY]

Feb 2, 2015 13:31:52 GMT -5 wawa said:

Feb 2, 2015 13:09:03 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

 Do they start school at age 4 there (like the cutoff is December)? 

This information is approx. 30 years out of date, but when I was in school the cutoff was September with some sort of grace period if you could show readiness.  One of my BFF's was the youngest person in my class with a Sept 23rd birthday.  So she was 4 for the first month or so of Kindy, but that's it.

No idea if that's still true though. 

Are you talking about in PA? It depends upon the school district. We live in a district with a 9/15 cutoff but my kids now attend school in a district with a 9/1 cutoff.

[downtoearth]

Feb 2, 2015 13:28:40 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Feb 2, 2015 13:27:28 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

They do vaccinate.

I'm pretty sure they have pockets that don't vaccinate, not because they fear the vaccination but because they don't think it's crucial for them.

I found a CDC article that talks about the reporting of vaccination rates for 2014 and said, "Pennsylvania included homeschool students in their public school data." Only Pennsylvania and Oregon included homeschool info and Oregon only included those who were enrolled in online-homeschool programs.  Maybe that is why the rate is higher there.

[wawa]

Feb 2, 2015 13:35:54 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Feb 2, 2015 13:31:52 GMT -5 wawa said:

This information is approx. 30 years out of date, but when I was in school the cutoff was September with some sort of grace period if you could show readiness.  One of my BFF's was the youngest person in my class with a Sept 23rd birthday.  So she was 4 for the first month or so of Kindy, but that's it.

No idea if that's still true though. 

Are you talking about in PA? It depends upon the school district. We live in a district with a 9/15 cutoff but my kids now attend school in a district with a 9/1 cutoff.

Yeah, PA.  I was wondering if it was district by district.  I've gotten used to MD where school policy is set on the county level instead of operating independently. 

[IIOY]

Feb 2, 2015 13:33:50 GMT -5 @silver said:

I don't think the Amish population is a large enough portion of the state to skew it if they only have pockets that don't vaccinate.

I guess the issue is how big are those pockets, because we have a pretty substantial Amish population. NPR was reporting within the last few months or so on low vax rates among the Amish and my impression was that it wasn't just a small number. However I have no problem admitting that I'm no expert on this topic.

[Deleted]

Feb 2, 2015 13:40:58 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Feb 2, 2015 13:33:50 GMT -5 @silver said:

I don't think the Amish population is a large enough portion of the state to skew it if they only have pockets that don't vaccinate.

I guess the issue is how big are those pockets, because we have a pretty substantial Amish population. NPR was reporting within the last few months or so on low vax rates among the Amish and my impression was that it wasn't just a small number. However I have no problem admitting that I'm no expert on this topic.

I have no idea. I am constantly surprised by how close I live to large Amish communities. I may not know the true scope of how large the population is.

I'm seriously maybe 30 minutes down Rt 30 from the beginning of Amish country and I am I surprised every damn time I drive out there.

[redheadbaker]

Feb 2, 2015 13:37:31 GMT -5 wawa said:

Feb 2, 2015 13:35:54 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Are you talking about in PA? It depends upon the school district. We live in a district with a 9/15 cutoff but my kids now attend school in a district with a 9/1 cutoff.

Yeah, PA.  I was wondering if it was district by district.  I've gotten used to MD where school policy is set on the county level instead of operating independently. 

Philly public schools require the child to be 5 years old on or before 9/1, with no option to test in early. 

[stealthmom]

Feb 2, 2015 13:28:40 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Feb 2, 2015 13:27:28 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

They do vaccinate.

I'm pretty sure they have pockets that don't vaccinate, not because they fear the vaccination but because they don't think it's crucial for them.

there is no prohibition against them but they have low rates of vaccination Compared to the general pop. There was a huge measles outbreak amongst ohio amish last summer. I guess it prompted a big immunization push there.

[alexis]

Feb 2, 2015 13:28:02 GMT -5 sangria said:

I think he's right though. I think the "community decision" needs to be school districts and pediatricians and camps etc etc saying they will not allow any kids who are not UTD on vaccines for personal beliefs exemptions.

As much as I would love national legislation, that would just push the morons to dig in further.

It has to start with ostracizing families that are choosing this despite all the information to the contrary.

I think legislative action may be necessary to make ostracism possible. When I was looking into doctors while pregnant with my first child, I was told by one office that it was illegal in CO for a doctor to decline a patient bcause their parent chooses to not vaccinate.

I suspect if individual public school districts tried to refuse unvaccinated children, that they would face legal action from anti - vax groups.

I think this guy overestimates people in thinking reason and science well win out.

[stealthmom]

Wiki says there were 58k in pa as of 2012. The only state with more is ohio with 59k.

[Deleted]

Feb 2, 2015 13:57:03 GMT -5 stealthmom said:

Wiki says there were 58k in pa as of 2012. The only state with more is ohio with 59k.

Census bureau says there's over 12 million people in PA.  Don't think we can blame the Amish.

[msmerymac]

In PA, my district is 9/1. And we had a whooping cough case last year in our high school.

Is it 15% of all kindergartners or kindergarten-aged children, though? And if kindergartners is it kids in public schools only?

[borinquen57]

I almost want to start believing the anti-vax bullshit just so I can stop being stressed out about this. I literally cried last night because I'm so worried and stressed out because I have no choice but to wait to vaccinate my newborn until she's old enough and hope that DD1's vaccines are effective. Seriously, goddamn these anti-vaxxers.

[aurora]

Feb 2, 2015 13:34:13 GMT -5 ESF said:

Feb 2, 2015 13:16:05 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Well, I agree with him to the extent that it shouldn't take law to make it happen. It should take common sense and information. But since those aren't working, we need to roll out the big guns.

I think his position is stated so as not to alienate people.

Yes.

One of the challenges here is that we are dealing with paranoid, anti-government conspiracy theorists. Government legislation only further convinces them that they are right in their decision. I can't believe I'm saying this but more government isn't going to solve this, it's going to make it worse.  

Sane people aren't walking around waiting for CDC press releases to decide whether to vaccinate their kid. The CDC knows this. Instead, I would expect that the CDC has studied the psychology of the anti-vaxxers, and are trying to temper their statements to avoid alienating them and giving them more ammunition for their batshit crazy theories.

Is it really anti-government?  Or anti-big-business?  Which is realize is silly since the medical industry isn't making bank on vaccinations, but it seems like that's more of the perception where I live.  In general here (with a fairly high rate of anti-vaxers), most people aren't really anti-government to the same extent as anti-big-business.

[ESF]

Feb 2, 2015 14:38:17 GMT -5 aurora said:

Feb 2, 2015 13:34:13 GMT -5 ESF said:

Yes.

One of the challenges here is that we are dealing with paranoid, anti-government conspiracy theorists. Government legislation only further convinces them that they are right in their decision. I can't believe I'm saying this but more government isn't going to solve this, it's going to make it worse.  

Sane people aren't walking around waiting for CDC press releases to decide whether to vaccinate their kid. The CDC knows this. Instead, I would expect that the CDC has studied the psychology of the anti-vaxxers, and are trying to temper their statements to avoid alienating them and giving them more ammunition for their batshit crazy theories.

Is it really anti-government?  Or anti-big-business?  Which is realize is silly since the medical industry isn't making bank on vaccinations, but it seems like that's more of the perception where I live.  In general here (with a fairly high rate of anti-vaxers), most people aren't really anti-government to the same extent as anti-big-business.

It's both.  I'd say the far left anti-vaxxers are driven by a distrust of business, and the far right anti-vaxxers distrust the government.  Extreme fundamentalist religious groups are notoriously anti-government.