Economists Say Millenials Should Consider Career In Trades

[wawa]

Feb 3, 2015 13:50:28 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

Feb 3, 2015 13:29:09 GMT -5 wawa said:

I have a lot of feels...but I can never decide what I really think about this.

Part of me wants to be able to send everybody to college - not as job training, but just, you know....for education.
The rest of me knows this is wildly idealistic.
The trades in general are a great living. My brother is a machinist, I have friends who are welders, another good friend who started out as a machinist and now runs the whole shop, etc.

The thing is...I know, because they've told me, that all of those people would have liked to have completed a 4 year degree. (some of them started and never finished, some of them never went at all)

So while if Shorti tells me she wants to be a plumber I'm not going to crush her little dreams at the same time I....can't imagine encouraging my kid to turn down the chance for a free (to her) shot at a traditional degree. So it feels really super NIMBY and weird to say that OTHER people's kids shouldn't go to college. I mean, if they don't want to - then fine. There should be widely available good vocational training for those people. But if they do? I want them to be able to, and the fact that they could make 40k as a welder straight out of high school doesn't change that fact.

I feel like this is rambly and not really to the point. I don't know that I have a point.

I would tell my kid to go get a business degree because they will need that knowledge to be a plumber and run a business.

I have a friend whose dad made him go to a 4-year college and get a degree even though he wanted to be a musician. At the time I thought that was cruel, but he's a working musician now (he tours with big name stars) and said having that business degree has come in handy more than enough times that he has thanked his dad.

that's a good point. I can't tell how many tradespeople I've worked with either professionally or in my house that can't run a business to save their flipping lives.
I guess the differences is - I'm not sure I'd tell my kid to go into debt for a 4 year degree if they want to work in the trades.
But if I can pay for it - yeah, I'm going to encourage college for anybody and everybody who has an interest.

[ttt]

Wouldn't it make sense to add some business education to these trade schools? Do any of them do that?

My biggest concerns with trade are the physical burdens of some jobs (like someone mentioned, many are not jobs you can do forever) and the vulnerability of it, in a way. You train and train for a specific career and what happens when you come out of school and there's no longer much need for it anymore? I realize this can happen to any career, but it seems like a 4 year degree is more flexible in this.

[Deleted]

Why is an education about how to think about things inherently so much better than an education in how to actually do something?

I want my kids to pursue the path that is the best fit for them, but also a path with a good chance of success. That could be many things, but I won't undervalue the skills to make, fix, and do.

[wawa]

Feb 3, 2015 14:02:28 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Why is an education about how to think about things inherently so much better than an education in how to actually do something?

I want my kids to pursue the path that is the best fit for them, but also a path with a good chance of success. That could be many things, but I won't undervalue the skills to make, fix, and do.

some would say that I have a degree in how to do things (since I'm an engineer).  But I don't think one is better than the other - I just think that a degree in how to think about things is inherently useful and valuable regardless of whether you then make your living by talking and writing or by making and fixing.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

[Deleted]

Feb 3, 2015 14:13:32 GMT -5 wawa said:

Feb 3, 2015 14:02:28 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Why is an education about how to think about things inherently so much better than an education in how to actually do something?

I want my kids to pursue the path that is the best fit for them, but also a path with a good chance of success. That could be many things, but I won't undervalue the skills to make, fix, and do.

some would say that I have a degree in how to do things (since I'm an engineer).  But I don't think one is better than the other - I just think that a degree in how to think about things is inherently useful and valuable regardless of whether you then make your living by talking and writing or by making and fixing.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

If you're rich.

[MrsAxilla]

Feb 3, 2015 13:10:02 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

I feel very UMCer ruining America right now, because I read that and wholeheartedly agreed, but then, I was all, NIMBY. Undergrad and graduate school weren't optional in my parents' household and it's not in ours, either. Millenials do need to go after these roles, though--boomers physically will not have a choice as it relates to retiring from many of them.

Ditto. My kid just tested in the top 1% of gifted and talented, so I'm not thinking trade school for him....

[jinkies]

Feb 3, 2015 14:02:14 GMT -5 ttt said:

Wouldn't it make sense to add some business education to these trade schools? Do any of them do that?

My biggest concerns with trade are the physical burdens of some jobs (like someone mentioned, many are not jobs you can do forever) and the vulnerability of it, in a way. You train and train for a specific career and what happens when you come out of school and there's no longer much need for it anymore? I realize this can happen to any career, but it seems like a 4 year degree is more flexible in this.

Ideally, it would be great if trade schools offered business education. Unfortunately, in my experience, none do.

I do agree on the physical aspect of the job. I worked for years with people with ALS. Several of them were able to continue work for some period of time, but only because they had office jobs. A physical injury or debilitating disease would be devastating to my husband's career, and to our family's income. It's one reason that I continue to work, at least part time. So that I have a foot in the door and fresh skills in case of a situation where I need to become the primary breadwinner.

I'm not sure that I agree with your point about vulnerability, though. I can't imagine a situation in which the world would not need well-trained plumbers, mechanics, HVAC techs, crane operators, etc. On the other hand, as a union carpenter, my brother is more vulnerable, because he can more easily be replaced by day laborers or people who are self-taught. 

My husband has also known several people in the course of his career that have transitioned from the labor side to a sales/ back end office support role. We do hold on to this as another option if he ends up unable to handle the physical job, but can not yet retire.

ETA: I see @songforyou covered my thoughts on job security while I was still thinking out my response :-)

[Deleted]

My local trade school offers a program called "Business Planning" that I would encourage my kid to tack on if they did plan on operating a business as a tradesman. Honestly, I think it would be much more practical than a 4 year Business degree.

I have an engineering degree, but it's definitely about how to think about a problem. I still can't build your deck.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Feb 3, 2015 9:49:11 GMT -5 decemberwedding07 said:

I know hair styling isn't exactly a trade, by I know several stylists who make $100/yr. They don't have retirement plans offered at work, and I think there's a definite age limit to being cool enough to be a popular stylist, but still!
(And I say it isn't a trade because I think of trade positions as having unions, or retirement packages, and being something one can do up to age 65, at least.)

my gma was trained by Clairol in the late 30's, early 40's to cut, color, perm and style hair. this job kept my dad's family afloat for YEARS !! she continued her career until she was 70ish when she HAD to stop working due to cancer. she would have worked until she could longer stand if she could - she had clients that literally followed her from salon to salon all over the San Diego area.

dd (who ironically has one of this gma's names) LOVES playing w/ hair, etc and I'm already steering her towards a cosmetology license to help foot the bill for college and so she can get her BA in Econ/Business and run her OWN salon lol

[AllieHound]

I have a master's, H has a degree he doesn't use and certifications which opened the door to a city job with good pay and a pension. He makes significantly more than I do.

College will not be optional for Max...he will have to get some sort of secondary education. I am fine, however, if that college has the word "community" in front of it. I will encourage him to take non-essential courses to broaden his thinking.

H and I will also encourage him to get a short term certificate to help pay for life if he does go to a 4 year school. My H worked as an EBT Basic through college and I was a phlebotomist while taking classes. Making ~$12 an hour as a college kid working every other weekend in 2005 paid for books and beer, and also gave me a solid start to my resume for real jobs when I graduated and went to work at the same hospital full time.

[tacosforlife]

Feb 3, 2015 13:50:28 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

Feb 3, 2015 13:29:09 GMT -5 wawa said:

I have a lot of feels...but I can never decide what I really think about this.

Part of me wants to be able to send everybody to college - not as job training, but just, you know....for education.
The rest of me knows this is wildly idealistic.
The trades in general are a great living. My brother is a machinist, I have friends who are welders, another good friend who started out as a machinist and now runs the whole shop, etc.

The thing is...I know, because they've told me, that all of those people would have liked to have completed a 4 year degree. (some of them started and never finished, some of them never went at all)

So while if Shorti tells me she wants to be a plumber I'm not going to crush her little dreams at the same time I....can't imagine encouraging my kid to turn down the chance for a free (to her) shot at a traditional degree. So it feels really super NIMBY and weird to say that OTHER people's kids shouldn't go to college. I mean, if they don't want to - then fine. There should be widely available good vocational training for those people. But if they do? I want them to be able to, and the fact that they could make 40k as a welder straight out of high school doesn't change that fact.

I feel like this is rambly and not really to the point. I don't know that I have a point.

I would tell my kid to go get a business degree because they will need that knowledge to be a plumber and run a business.

I have a friend whose dad made him go to a 4-year college and get a degree even though he wanted to be a musician. At the time I thought that was cruel, but he's a working musician now (he tours with big name stars) and said having that business degree has come in handy more than enough times that he has thanked his dad.

This is kind of where I'm at. If my kid wants to do a trade, I'm going to recommend at least getting an associate's in business or accounting or something similar.

My stepdad is a contractor who owns his own business. He also got a bachelor's degree in business after HS and worked at a couple of different companies before deciding to go the contractor route. I have no doubt that the basic business stuff he learned in college has helped him be more successful in his trade.

Also, he is 63 now and is getting frequent injections in his spine because of chronic pain due to the physical nature of his job. I don't think he wants to, but I bet that he could get a much lighter duty job with a company - he could work in sales for a tool company, procurement for a construction company, construction management, stuff like that.

He's so close to retirement now that I think he's just going to tough it out physically. But if he had suffered a debilitating injury 15 years ago, he would have had to look for a less physically demanding job. College education plus carpentry skills would have set him up nicely for that.