As the economy continues to recover, economists are seeing stark differences between people with high school and college degrees. Four-year college graduates are nearly twice as likely to have a job compared to Americans who just graduated high school and stopped there.
But economists say that doesn't mean everybody needs a 4-year degree. In fact, millions of good-paying jobs are opening up in the trades. And some pay better than what the average college graduate makes.
Learning A Trade
When 18-year-old Haley Hughes graduated from high school this past summer, she had good grades; she was on the honor roll every year. So she applied to a bunch of 4-year colleges and got accepted to every one of them. But she says, "I wasn't excited about it really, I guess."
"The baby boom workers are retiring and leaving lots of openings for millennials."
- Anthony Carnevale, Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce
So instead of going that route, Hughes is taking a different path: an apprenticeship through the big New England power utility company NSTAR. In one of her recent classes at an NSTAR facility outside Boston, the classroom work was actually more exciting than some people might like.
Haley Hughes (right) and Kristen Sabino stand in the meter training room at an NSTAR learning facility. The two are part of an apprenticeship program with the utility company, something economists say the U.S. needs more of in order to fill open trade jobs.i
Haley Hughes (right) and Kristen Sabino stand in the meter training room at an NSTAR learning facility. The two are part of an apprenticeship program with the utility company, something economists say the U.S. needs more of in order to fill open trade jobs.
Courtesy of Earl Benders
Lara Allison is one of the instructors. On a recent morning, she was teaching Hughes and the other utility worker apprentices how to protect themselves if they're down under a manhole cover in an underground electrical substation and something bad happens."
"An arc flash, that's the thing we worry the most about," Allison says.
An arc flash is a highly energized bolt of electricity, an explosion of electricity in a sense, that jumps from an energy source to another spot that's grounded or that the energy can flow into. Allison tells the students that if they wear the wrong clothing and they get hit by an arc flash, their clothes can catch on fire and get seared into their skin. "It's really, really hot," she says.
On her apprenticeship Hughes already has been down working in those underground substations.
"I loved it, it was great," she says.
Hughes says another thing that's great is that taking this path into the high-skilled trades is a lot cheaper than a 4-year college would have been.
$40,000 Vs. $2,400 Per Year
"The student loans would be ridiculous," Hughes says during a break from class. "The schools I was looking at ... were like $40,000 a year." In the long run she thought that was just too much.
By comparison, NSTAR is partnering with nearby Bunker Hill Community College. The students end up with a 2-year associate degree. Hughes has some scholarships and NSTAR pays some of the cost. So for Hughes, it works out to about $1,200 a semester. Hughes says she's been paying that herself and so she expects to graduate with no debt.
Hughes is also getting a lot of on-the-job training and taking a wide range of courses at the community college: English, math, a computer science course and even a psychology group dynamics class. Then there are the classes directly related to power utility work: DC theory, AC theory, physics, engineering and business etiquette. Not bad for $1,200 a semester.
'Averages Lie'
After graduating, 90 percent of the students get jobs with the power utility NSTAR (which is in the process of changing its name to Eversource Energy). Starting base pay is about $58,000 a year.
On average, it is certainly true that people with a 4-year college degree make more money than those with a 2-year degree or less. But there is plenty of nuance behind that truth.
"Averages lie," says Anthony Carnevale, the director of the Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce.
He says the problem with those averages is that people who work at Radio Shack or Target get lumped in with master carpenters and electricians.
"You can get a particular skill in a particular field and make more than a college graduate," he says. For example, he says the average electrician makes $5,000 a year more than the average 4-year college graduate. And the country is going to need a lot more skilled tradespeople.
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"The baby boom workers are retiring and leaving lots of openings for millennials," Carnevale says. He says there are 600,000 jobs for electricians in the country today, and about half of those will open up over the next decade. Carnevale says it is a big opportunity for that millennial generation born between 1980 and 2000.
With so many boomers retiring from the trades, the U.S. is going to need a lot more pipe-fitters, nuclear power plant operators, carpenters, welders, utility workers — the list is long. But the problem is not enough young people are getting that kind of training.
Not Enough Training
Utility apprentice Haley Hughes says she chose to work in the trades, in large part, because she went to a vocational high school. A lot of her friends are going into the trades. She got comfortable there with wiring light switches and doing basic electrical work and learning about the industry. But, there aren't nearly as many of these types of programs in high schools as there used to be.
"We made a mistake," Carnevale says. "Back in 1983, there was the 'Nation at Risk' report in which, quite rightly, we all were appalled at the quality of education in America."
After that, he says, most high schools focused on academics and getting students ready for college. For a lot of parents, they wanted their kids to have a 4-year degree. But Carnevale says, in the process "we basically obliterated the modernization of the old vocational education programs and they've been set aside."
Carnevale says we should bring those programs back and we need to be preparing a lot more young people for good, well-paying jobs in the trades. And he says that means we need better training programs at high schools and community colleges in partnership with businesses in scores of different industries around the country.
I've been doing contract work for our local utility and I was surprised to learn what good, high paying jobs are available with on the job training. But it's been difficult for them to find new workers, and they are very concerned about the number of employees set to retire in the next five years. DH's office just hired a guy who served in the military for four years and was hired through federal Veterans Preference. He's 24 and started as a GS-9 - that's $51K with no degree.
I've been doing contract work for our local utility and I was surprised to learn what good, high paying jobs are available with on the job training. But it's been difficult for them to find new workers, and they are very concerned about the number of employees set to retire in the next five years. DH's office just hired a guy who served in the military for four years and was hired through federal Veterans Preference. He's 24 and started as a GS-9 - that's $51K with no degree.
My neighbor is in charge of the vocational training for a school (actually, I think it's the district). Anyway, he said that companies are always calling him to get students to train with them, and that it's really a shame, that we as a country have become so college focused.
That sounds like a great program (training mixed with a 2 year degree). Our apprenticeship (trades union) is free, but we don't offer a degree. We do offer tuition reimbursement however if you are working towards a labor degree of sorts.
And while the "base pay" is great, at least for most trades around here, it's hourly and there is no guarantee, nor is it even likely that one will work 40 hrs a week year round. In fact, our average full time member works 1300 hours in comparison to a "normal" job of 2080 a year. I'm not sure if that's the case with the above story.
DH's little brother is 21 and just started his apprenticeship as a welder. It's a really good fit for him. He barely squeaked through high school (more due to interest/drive than ability) and there was no way he was ever going to university. He worked in a restaurant kitchen for a few years, took a pre-employement welding course, and after a few months, managed to get this job that fits him perfectly, right down to the "3 pm - 11 pm shift" that doesn't require waking before noon.
Post by decemberwedding07 on Feb 3, 2015 9:49:11 GMT -5
I know hair styling isn't exactly a trade, by I know several stylists who make $100/yr. They don't have retirement plans offered at work, and I think there's a definite age limit to being cool enough to be a popular stylist, but still! (And I say it isn't a trade because I think of trade positions as having unions, or retirement packages, and being something one can do up to age 65, at least.)
DH's little brother is 21 and just started his apprenticeship as a welder. It's a really good fit for him. He barely squeaked through high school (more due to interest/drive than ability) and there was no way he was ever going to university. He worked in a restaurant kitchen for a few years, took a pre-employement welding course, and after a few months, managed to get this job that fits him perfectly, right down to the "3 pm - 11 pm shift" that doesn't require waking before noon.
My uncle was a welder for GM and made a very good living.
I know hair styling isn't exactly a trade, by I know several stylists who make $100/yr. They don't have retirement plans offered at work, and I think there's a definite age limit to being cool enough to be a popular stylist, but still! (And I say it isn't a trade because I think of trade positions as having unions, or retirement packages, and being something one can do up to age 65, at least.)
I'd actually say one of the risks of a lot of trades is not being able to do it until you're 65. A lot of them really take a toll on your body.
Post by iammalcolmx on Feb 3, 2015 10:01:55 GMT -5
I agree with this so much. We weep when we lose maintenance people it's almost impossible to find their replacements. We start them out at $18.00 an hour( in a place with a very LCOL!) and that is someone who has no experience just trade schooling. They can quickly increase their salaries by getting ON the job trainings and certifications.
My brother did not go to college. He has done well as a licensed builder. He definitely is encouraging people to go into the trades. Currently they cannot find enough local electricians and plumbers to work on projects and have to hire from outside the area and house them in local hotels in order to keep on schedule. Short supply of workers only increased the cost.
We all want a well trained auto tech, plumber, electrician, carpenter, welder etc to do what is needed to be done on our home, car etc.
You can't replace a builder, electrician nor plumber with a robot nor computer. We need people who are skilled in the trades,they are not stupid people. The day of "the trades" not being "cool" is over. It is the new path to a decent income.
Post by Velar Fricative on Feb 3, 2015 10:13:19 GMT -5
I feel like in this area it is NO secret that people like elevator mechanics, electricians, etc. can make a shitload of money, so it is actually a pretty tight market here for those jobs. Let's not forget that only a third of adults in this country have a four-year degree (the numbers are similar in my area) - that means there are a lot of people in a potential pool of candidates for trade work. But I like the idea of robust apprenticeships. In light of our recent discussion re: employers not wanting to train workers anymore, more company-run apprenticeships would be fantastic.
I also like that we're seeing more women in these fields otherwise dominated by men. Lots of conversations I've had with people regarding getting people for whom college isn't a great fit into vocational schools mainly talk about men pursuing these opportunities. Those doors need to be open for women too should they choose to pursue a trade.
I know hair styling isn't exactly a trade, by I know several stylists who make $100/yr. They don't have retirement plans offered at work, and I think there's a definite age limit to being cool enough to be a popular stylist, but still! (And I say it isn't a trade because I think of trade positions as having unions, or retirement packages, and being something one can do up to age 65, at least.)
I'd actually say one of the risks of a lot of trades is not being able to do it until you're 65. A lot of them really take a toll on your body.
I am not anti-trades by any means, but I worry when people are trying to push others into trades while also advocating for a higher retirement age and stricter disability standards.
Barring a traumatic brain injury, I should be able to work until I'm 75. Someone who does a heavy trade? Nope.
My husband is an HVAC installer. He is not union. He makes a very good living, guaranteed year-round work, with good insurance and a 401k. It's a skill, and there will always be a need for someone to fix or install your heater or AC, so I feel his job is secure. He will likely do more service than installs as he gets older, because fixing them is less physical than removing/installing the units.
There is SUCH a need for talented, motivated people to go into trades. I kind of bristle at the idea that a trade is only for people who aren't cut out for college.
In our area many people are very focused on getting their kid into a prestigious college but no so much what happens after. MY FIL was in a skilled trade and taught those skills to my husband. He went to a community college with money he got at his trade job then transferred to a year school. Did a rotating externship program to pay for school, and got his degree with no student debt. Later he has in company pay for his masters. I am in awe of his foresight as an 18 year old person. Trade jobs around here are sought after and often handed down through families.
Heck yeah. My brother is an electrician. He makes almost as much as me (a lawyer), more if you count side jobs and lack of student loan debt.
ETA: I have to add, my dad was a welder. He made good money but it was an extremely taxing job under harsh conditions, and he recently retired on disability. He didn't want that for his kids.
I used to work with some guys that went to Williamson Free Trade School in PA. Google it if you have time - it's pretty fascinating. I worked for a homebuilder and we recruited there.
Anyway it's a trade school and they have to pick a specialty. All of the guys that I know who went there have very good jobs and have never had issues finding a job. I agree that trade education is important and valuable. It should be presented as a very viable option for high schoolers.
My husband is an HVAC installer. He is not union. He makes a very good living, guaranteed year-round work, with good insurance and a 401k. It's a skill, and there will always be a need for someone to fix or install your heater or AC, so I feel his job is secure. He will likely do more service than installs as he gets older, because fixing them is less physical than removing/installing the units.
There is SUCH a need for talented, motivated people to go into trades. I kind of bristle at the idea that a trade is only for people who aren't cut out for college.
True, it's not just for people who aren't cut out for college. I shouldn't have made it seem that way in my OP, though I do think part of the problem with a lack of people skilled to do trade work, is because many aren't pushing trades.
My cousin, does have a degree, but for a variety of reasons, has had somewhat of a spotty job history, after she left teaching. Just this week, she started some new job training/trade program. She's excited, and I'm excited for her.
Post by downtoearth on Feb 3, 2015 11:11:20 GMT -5
I don't disagree with this, and think it's a good idea. But keep in mind that if you aren't near a big city, you often have to learn trade skills at the local community college and not through apprenticeships b/c the small businesses cannot afford to have apprenticeships for untrained people. So going into a trade if you're not in a large city or near a big union area still might require community college courses. Even our HVAC certification is through our local community colleges. You don't have to major in anything to get the certification, but you still have to pay tuition.
Post by cattledogkisses on Feb 3, 2015 11:13:53 GMT -5
In some places I think there's a lot of snobbery about blue collar jobs (which is silly) and I wonder if that keeps people from pursuing those opportunities.
In some places I think there's a lot of snobbery about blue collar jobs (which is silly) and I wonder if that keeps people from pursuing those opportunities.
I think it absolutely does.
Which is stupid, because my husband makes more than I do (with a 4 year degree in Communications), has better job stability, and no student loans.
I know that he feels very self-conscious in gatherings with my (generally college educated) friends, because he feels like there is an assumption that he is in a trade because he wasn't smart enough for college. This isn't true, and I'm not even sure that people think this, but he is self-conscious about it.
My dad was a truck driver and made great money, with benefits and a retirement plan. He did have to retire early due to disability though. He wanted to work to 70.
I feel like in this area it is NO secret that people like elevator mechanics, electricians, etc. can make a shitload of money, so it is actually a pretty tight market here for those jobs. Let's not forget that only a third of adults in this country have a four-year degree (the numbers are similar in my area) - that means there are a lot of people in a potential pool of candidates for trade work. But I like the idea of robust apprenticeships. In light of our recent discussion re: employers not wanting to train workers anymore, more company-run apprenticeships would be fantastic.
I also like that we're seeing more women in these fields otherwise dominated by men. Lots of conversations I've had with people regarding getting people for whom college isn't a great fit into vocational schools mainly talk about men pursuing these opportunities. Those doors need to be open for women too should they choose to pursue a trade.
I think this is better known in some parts of the country than others. I know when I was living on Long Island it was definitely well known so I'm not surprised you don't think it's a secret either. Places like Boston, Detroit, Chicago, etc all know good and damned well there's a ton of money to be made in trade and great opportunities to eventually own your own business in many of them.
But other areas of the country seem slow to catch on. Like in my area. I think people here are focused on getting out of here.
I know a bunch of dudes who went to CSU and got degrees in construction management. They all make a shit ton of money.
On that note, I know a lot of people who have degrees in construction management who are unemployed or doing something other than construction management. BUT I live in Michigan.
In my area the trades are in crisis. This goes across multiple industries but the general idea is that there are not enough skilled trade workers coming in and a lot of baby boomers retiring out.
My cousins are snapping up apprenticeships as electricians, plumbers, sheet metal workers, etc and being paid highly while going through a 2-year program with the local college.
My Mom's hospital is in a panic since the colleges in the area all closed out their 2 year lab technologist programs since there was inadequate interest in the 90s and 00s. Now everyone is retiring and they have no trained lab techs to take over.
In my area the trades are in crisis. This goes across multiple industries but the general idea is that there are not enough skilled trade workers coming in and a lot of baby boomers retiring out.
My cousins are snapping up apprenticeships as electricians, plumbers, sheet metal workers, etc and being paid highly while going through a 2-year program with the local college.
My Mom's hospital is in a panic since the colleges in the area all closed out their 2 year lab technologist programs since there was inadequate interest in the 90s and 00s. Now everyone is retiring and they have no trained lab techs to take over.
The med school I used to work for was looking into adding a lab tech certification program in conjunction with the hospitals. I don't know if they ever did it, though.
Funny, DH and I just had a discussion that other day about whether college would be strongly encouraged for our child (who won't be born for another month). DH is in a trade and I have a white collar job and my masters.
I have a lot of feels...but I can never decide what I really think about this.
Part of me wants to be able to send everybody to college - not as job training, but just, you know....for education. The rest of me knows this is wildly idealistic. The trades in general are a great living. My brother is a machinist, I have friends who are welders, another good friend who started out as a machinist and now runs the whole shop, etc.
The thing is...I know, because they've told me, that all of those people would have liked to have completed a 4 year degree. (some of them started and never finished, some of them never went at all)
So while if Shorti tells me she wants to be a plumber I'm not going to crush her little dreams at the same time I....can't imagine encouraging my kid to turn down the chance for a free (to her) shot at a traditional degree. So it feels really super NIMBY and weird to say that OTHER people's kids shouldn't go to college. I mean, if they don't want to - then fine. There should be widely available good vocational training for those people. But if they do? I want them to be able to, and the fact that they could make 40k as a welder straight out of high school doesn't change that fact.
I feel like this is rambly and not really to the point. I don't know that I have a point.