FB friend needs to be educated about vaccines. Help me?

[stoneorwatson]

friend posted: Vaccinating your children is a highly personal decision, and though I tend to shy away from most (if not all--research still pending on that decision) vaccines, I don't pass judgment on those who chose to vaccinate fully, nor do I feel it's right to jump on parents who don't vaccinate. There's a lot of propaganda out there that shouldn't be bought into based upon emotions without actually looking at the full picture of the science. You can't simply blame a disease on an unvaccinated child when in all likelihood it wasn't spread from them in the first place. Just hoping to help shed some more perspective on the fullness of the picture because I'm tired of reading the hateful posts on both sides towards those who shy away from vaccines and those who chose to vaccinate.

and then posted this link: globenewswire.com/news-release/2015/02/02/702199/10118172/en/Studies-Show-that-Vaccinated-Individuals-Spread-Disease.html



She is 29, unmarried, no kids, Christian, very very pro-life, republican, crunchy/essential oils/healthy-eating, physically fit, a little naive, but not mean at all. Help me with some verbiage to educate her? Scientific, but gentle.

[Deleted]

I like this one:
www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/02/open-letter-parent-unvaccinated-child-measles-exposure

Personal decisions about vaccines effect people who have no choice. That's why it's wrong.

[KateAggie]

Waste of time, unfortunately. If she thinks science is propaganda...

[Deleted]

This is also great:
medium.com/the-nib/vaccines-work-here-are-the-facts-5de3d0f9ffd0

[stoneorwatson]

Feb 3, 2015 10:25:57 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

Also, I've learned that people who truly believe that vaccines are poisonous evil are helpless and hopeless. You'd be better off pondering the meaning of life with a chicken.

this literally made me LOL.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Here's what I don't get. Even if vaccines do cause autism (I know they don't, just in arguendo), isn't autism better than death or serious illness?

[Deleted]

Feb 3, 2015 10:46:20 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Here's what I don't get. Even if vaccines do cause autism (I know they don't, just in arguendo), isn't autism better than death or serious illness?

That is one of the reasons this is pretty offensive to parents of a kid with autism.

I haven't seen the autism excuse brought up as much recently, though. It's usually just "vaccine injury".

[hopecounts]

Feb 3, 2015 10:46:20 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Here's what I don't get. Even if vaccines do cause autism (I know they don't, just in arguendo), isn't autism better than death or serious illness?

Exactly, DD has ASD and there is no way that is worse then what my grandma went through having polio (pre-vaccine) being in an iron lung, having permanent lag and arm weakness, etc.
And she was lucky and regained full mobility with no significant limping.

[stoneorwatson]

here's what I replied to her:

That's why vaccinations are so important, for herd immunity (see here, for how vaccines work: medium.com/.../vaccines-work-here-are-the-facts...) . That will help protect people who CANNOT be immunized (see here: www.motherjones.com/.../open-letter-parent...) from getting sick. Because these diseases, like measles, are deadly (see here: roalddahl.com/roald.../timeline/1960s/november-1962) and uneducated people - and people who THINK they are educated, but are just getting worked up over God's Plan (see here: www.ifyouonlynews.com/.../autistic-womans-heart.../).



I know one facebook post is not going to change her mind, but it's a start!

[lyssbobiss, Command, B613]

Feb 3, 2015 10:48:56 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Feb 3, 2015 10:46:20 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Here's what I don't get. Even if vaccines do cause autism (I know they don't, just in arguendo), isn't autism better than death or serious illness?

That is one of the reasons this is pretty offensive to parents of a kid with autism.

I haven't seen the autism excuse brought up as much recently, though. It's usually just "vaccine injury".

Yes, I just responded in a FB thread with this. Foregoing all of the facts that the MMR study-autism link were fabricated, the mere belief that a child suffering and dying from polio or measles is somehow better than a child living and thriving with autism is offensive and disgusting to all of the people with autism and those of us who care for them. My son is doing great, tyvm, and I sleep well every night knowing he's not part of an epidemic.

[downtoearth]

Feb 3, 2015 10:17:13 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

I like this one:
www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/02/open-letter-parent-unvaccinated-child-measles-exposure

Personal decisions about vaccines effect people who have no choice. That's why it's wrong.

This is good b/c Motherjones might be something she would feel is not part of the medical community.

[downtoearth]

Feb 3, 2015 10:51:49 GMT -5 stoneorwatson said:

here's what I replied to her:

That's why vaccinations are so important, for herd immunity (see here, for how vaccines work: medium.com/.../vaccines-work-here-are-the-facts...) . That will help protect people who CANNOT be immunized (see here: www.motherjones.com/.../open-letter-parent...) from getting sick. Because these diseases, like measles, are deadly (see here: roalddahl.com/roald.../timeline/1960s/november-1962) and uneducated people - and people who THINK they are educated, but are just getting worked up over God's Plan (see here: www.ifyouonlynews.com/.../autistic-womans-heart.../).



I know one facebook post is not going to change her mind, but it's a start!

Um, she's religious and you aren't, huh?

[lyssbobiss, Command, B613]

Also, I think "vaccine illness" is code for "I still think they cause autism and I don't want to admit it."

[epphd]

Globalnewswire is not a news site. It's not a scientific journal. It's a press release compiler. And this release was written by:

The Weston A. Price Foundation is a 501(c)(3) nutrition education foundation with the mission of disseminating accurate, science-based information on diet and health. Named after nutrition pioneer Weston A. Price, DDS, author of Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, the Washington, DC-based Foundation publishes a quarterly journal for its 15,000 members, supports 600 local chapters worldwide and hosts a yearly international conference.

If you want to take your vaccine advice from a dentist, then go ahead and plan to ask your mechanic about your home plumbing, your hairdresser about your child's curriculum, and your attorney to draw up plans for your second story addition.

Also, the foundation is entirely devoted to nutritional advocacy - like raw milk legislation. Totes informed on immunology and vaccinology. The Weston A. Price Foundation is a major advocate for the consumption of unpasteurized milk, or raw milk, in the United States. One of its main goals is to remove health regulations that require the pasteurization of milk products so that raw milk can be legally purchased in all states. Supporters of this campaign believe the pasteurization process removes or destroys beneficial parts of raw milk, leading to a less healthy product that is associated with numerous diseases such as allergies, cancer, and heart disease.[13]

But yeah, basically your friend is probably hopeless.

[bella427]

Feb 3, 2015 10:46:20 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Here's what I don't get. Even if vaccines do cause autism (I know they don't, just in arguendo), isn't autism better than death or serious illness?

Yeah, my cousin has 2 kids on the spectrum. She posted the same thing on FB the other day. "So you'd rather your kids be dead than be like mine? Because my kids are awesome, thankyouverymuch."

[Vespasia]

I'm curious what will happen in a few years when the children of these anti-vaxxers still turn out to be autistic. Will they find something else to blame and move on? I doubt it will change any minds but you never know.

[mcsangel2]

Feb 3, 2015 10:46:20 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Here's what I don't get. Even if vaccines do cause autism (I know they don't, just in arguendo), isn't autism better than death or serious illness?

I think anti vaxxers are coming from the viewpoint that a child is way, way more likely to develop autism from a vaccine, than they are to die from the disease the vaccine prevents. I would be curious to know what they think the autism via vaccine rate is.

[Deleted]

Feb 3, 2015 10:25:57 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

Also, I've learned that people who truly believe that vaccines are poisonous evil are helpless and hopeless. You'd be better off pondering the meaning of life with a chicken.

I just unfriended someone who posted a rant about how she was tired of the hate directed towards antivaxxers and how we shouldn't blame them for the measles outbreak. She then went on to say that she was not going to let her children be injected with aborted babies and monkey DNA crap.

So uhm yeah, bye bye idiot.

[NewOrleans]

ugh, no. Defriend. Defriend IRL, too. Giving them information only makes them dig their heels in more.

[downtoearth]

Feb 3, 2015 11:59:27 GMT -5 lyssbobiss, Command, B613 said:

Also, I think "vaccine illness" is code for "I still think they cause autism and I don't want to admit it."

Not only code, but the National Autism Association (sounds, legit, right?) is the first think that pops up in Google when you look for "causes of autism" and they put this on their website...

Genetics cause Autism

Genetics seems to be linked to autism, but that rates are up so other environmental factors must be in play (paraphrasing):.

Environmental Factors cause Autism (Actual Quotes)

"The National Autism Association believes:
•Vaccinations can trigger or exacerbate autism in some, if not many, children, especially those who are genetically predisposed to immune, autoimmune or inflammatory conditions.
•Other environmental exposures may trigger, or exacerbate, autism in certain children, especially those who are genetically predisposed to immune, autoimmune or inflammatory conditions.

Mainstream research has identified other contributing factors, including:

• Pesticide Exposure: Scientists think that chemicals in pesticides may adversely affect those who are genetically predisposed to autism, leading them to develop the full-blown disorder
•Parental Age: A study found that women who are 40 years old have a 50 percent greater risk of having a child with autism than women who are between 20 and 29 years old.
•Pharmaceuticals: Babies that have been exposed to certain pharmaceuticals in the womb, including SSRI’s, valproic acid and thalidomide, have been found to have a higher risk of autism.
•Freeway Proximity: A study found that children born to mothers who live within a 1000 feet of freeways have twice the risk of autism
•Limited Prenatal Vitamin Intake: Women who reported not taking prenatal vitamins immediately before and during a pregnancy were twice as likely to have a child with autism, one study found.

It’s important to do your own research into the various causes that are being investigated. We believe that families should have access to all information including environmental insults, vaccines, and genetics. We also believe that because the onset of autism is triggered by an environmental factor, or combination of factors, autism is preventable and treatable."

----------------------------------------

I mean, this legit-sounding organization who wants to help you with your child says the #1 environmental cause, that a parent might be able to control, is still vaccines!  How can they be holding on to this lie that vaccines cause autism so hard?!  A parent searching for answers and wanting to know why their kid and life are different is likely going to get to this page - where it says that autism is "preventable and treatable," just avoid vaccines, autoimmune disorders (hello gluten-free/dairy-free diets), pesticides (eat only organic), old parents (you're screwed there b/c there is a link), living near highways (really?), and take your vitamins.   And I wish that wasn't the case.  I wish that the current studies and research were the first thing found.

[cohmom]

Although there are people who are entrenched and will not give, I have had success with the ACE strategy. Acknowledge: I know you are concerned about vaccines because xxxx (fill in with whatever faulty theory). Complement: Your a great parent to be concerned and want the best for your child. Educate: please consider that the current body of research proves vaccine are safe and effective. Also there are those in the community who cannot be vaccinated please consider helping them maintain their health.
Yes some people can't or won't hear you but I always like to try. You never know when you plant the seed; it might grow.