ISIS photos show Jordanian pilot burned alive in cage

[Deleted]

Feb 3, 2015 21:14:38 GMT -5 Stan said:

Feb 3, 2015 21:06:41 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

No one is suggesting Jordan go snatch up some Syrian foreign aid workers or capture pilots or businessmen.

Just that we ain't sad that Jordan is going to execute someone they'd already sentenced to die for terrorist activity especially since the faction what was negotiating for her release was just dicking around for three weeks for funsies.

I know?

I just think that some of the responses are particularly angry.

ISIS burned a man alive. This after they have beheaded how many people? Of course people are angry but none of us are heads of state. This issue isn't on a ballot anywhere. There is no bill before congress supporting retribution that people are begging their representatives to sign.

This whole like of discomfort you're displaying here reminds me of people who say that only God can judge or it's for a court of law to decide. It reads passive aggressive and a wee bit smug.

[Cicero]

Feb 3, 2015 18:58:12 GMT -5 Cicero said:

Is the ban on burning people sharia or cultural? Because if it's actual sharia and not just a Malaysian Muslim thing I don't see this helping in terms of garnering support.

ETA: That sounds weird. What I mean to say is that I knkw Muslims aren't allowed to be cremated, and I was told in MY that Muslims aren't allowed to physically cremate people either. Something about it being banned because it physically destroys the body.

[iammalcolmx]

I am fucking angry, there is no question about this.

[Deleted]

Feb 3, 2015 21:33:52 GMT -5 Stan said:

Ok. Whatever. It couldn't possibly be that I see women on this board criticize service members for angry retaliatory emotions and now some of them are expressing the same emotions. Or the fact that they're expressing desires to burn others in a cage. But hey, you got to call me smug so go you.

That part was just a bonus. But hey, thanks for supporting the troops.

[MrsAxilla]

Feb 3, 2015 21:25:02 GMT -5 Cicero said:

Feb 3, 2015 18:58:12 GMT -5 Cicero said:

Is the ban on burning people sharia or cultural? Because if it's actual sharia and not just a Malaysian Muslim thing I don't see this helping in terms of garnering support.

ETA: That sounds weird. What I mean to say is that I knkw Muslims aren't allowed to be cremated, and I was told in MY that Muslims aren't allowed to physically cremate people either. Something about it being banned because it physically destroys the body.

CNN said the video shows them razing the remains into the ground with a bulldozer.  Sounds like a big FUCK YOU to me.

[kapoentje]

Feb 3, 2015 16:10:49 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Feb 3, 2015 16:09:07 GMT -5 Cicero said:

So basically they started trying to negotiate using his release as a bargaining chip after he was already dead? Were they not expecting to be pushed for proof of life or were they just messing with Jordan?

The theory I'm pulling out of thin air says that they probably didn't expect a serious attempt from Jordan to negotiate.

Guy on BBC earlier was saying they (IS) wanted to negotiate with Jordan just to negotiate with another nation state. Not just we've got this hostage, we demand this much $$ but "diplomatic" interplay between an actual nation and these merciless fuckers who aspire to achieve the same. So, a show of "legitimacy."

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

Jordan wasn't playing.

news.yahoo.com/jordan-executes-two-iraqi-militants-response-pilots-death-033203764.html

[nursewife]

Feb 3, 2015 22:52:01 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Jordan wasn't playing.

news.yahoo.com/jordan-executes-two-iraqi-militants-response-pilots-death-033203764.html

This situation scares the shit out of me.

[rndmlurker]

Feb 3, 2015 22:37:39 GMT -5 Stan said:

Feb 3, 2015 22:33:56 GMT -5 rndmlurker said:

Ahh gotcha. I thought you were referring to the ones cheering Jordan on in their plans to execute the woman, and just angry at ISIS in general. My apologies :-) 

I'm definitely concerned and I think moving up the execution as a response to any ISIS action is a negative because it kind of legitimizes ISIS in a way that makes me nervous. I don't want them to have the ability to affect anyone, because it gives them a sort of power, it's why I support the movie idea of not negotiating with terrorists. But even being against the death penalty, I can admit I won't be crying a river about this woman's execution. 

I think ISIS is a legitimate threat. They do affect people, like it or not, the family, friends, of their victims and the victims themselves. I could not imagine something like that happening to one of my loved ones and just be expected to sweep them under the rug and deal with my grief silently simply because they should not have an effect on people. These are real people, real families, real communities and real lives they are affecting. 

Also, I do not see Jordan's decision to move up the execution as "negotiating" with terrorists. If anything I think it is the opposite. ISIS obviously won't negotiate (especially if what was posted earlier about this happening Jan 3 is true) anyway. So if Jordan goes ahead with executions, what will they have left to negotiate with? Once she is dead ISIS won't be trying to get her back anyways. And I agree with other posters in that I don't think they ever really cared whether they get her back or not, as she was already planning to blow herself up and I don't think ISIS really cares anything about anybody anyways. It is just a sick way to mess with people. Or something. I really can't even begin to wrap my head around why anyone would treat anyone the way ISIS does. 

[MrsAxilla]

Feb 3, 2015 22:52:01 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Jordan wasn't playing.

news.yahoo.com/jordan-executes-two-iraqi-militants-response-pilots-death-033203764.html

No shit.  At least they hung her, which is a far more humane death than being burnt alive or beheaded.

[summer]

Stan I really think your stance is commendable. I am well aware that mine is not one with a moral high ground. I've seriously tried to get there but I just can't. I'm simply one of those people who wants terrorists and child muderers and Hitler and such to suffer enormous physical pain. I really do. I've actually told people to convince me otherwise but it just is what it is. I'm that person.

[secretlyevil]

The match has been struck.

[Velar Fricative]

So...now what? ISIS will just pick a new imprisoned cause célèbre and this shit will continue.

I'm not saying I don't understand why Jordan did what it just did but I think ISIS will simply step up their game here. ISIS needs to be annihilated.

[annieblah]

Feb 4, 2015 7:33:21 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

So...now what? ISIS will just pick a new imprisoned cause célèbre and this shit will continue.

I'm not saying I don't understand why Jordan did what it just did but I think ISIS will simply step up their game here. ISIS needs to be annihilated.

I'm kind of here and I am a pacifist in these instances usually.  I just don't think eh care about life in any form and when a group doesn't fear death or losing , there is little hope.

[earlgreyhot]

NPR estimated that ISIS is getting 1000 new recruits a month. I don't even know how to process the fact that I live in a world with such evil.

As for Jordan's response. There's a part of me with Stan and think that the revenge killing is not the answer. But, at the same time "turn the other cheek" policies can be just as destabilizing. Not that I or Stan are arguing that.

I just wish there was a Grandi-like figure to emerge and get everyone to calm down.

[cattledogkisses]

What do recruits see in this that's appealing? Especially recruits from western nations? I just can't understand.

[2curlydogs]

Feb 3, 2015 23:05:43 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

Feb 3, 2015 22:52:01 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Jordan wasn't playing.

news.yahoo.com/jordan-executes-two-iraqi-militants-response-pilots-death-033203764.html

No shit.  At least they hung her, which is a far more humane death than being burnt alive or beheaded.

Is it? I mean, unless her neck snapped in the drop, I'm not sure strangling to death is more humane than beheading.... 

[mlt]

Feb 4, 2015 11:37:28 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

What do recruits see in this that's appealing? Especially recruits from western nations? I just can't understand.

This is what I don't get. I thought about it all night. Who sees a man being burned to death and says "sign me up!" Who raises these young men and women? Are their parents radical? Are they poor or middle class? What kind of education do they have? What has society done to contribute to their disengagement?

[cattledogkisses]

Feb 4, 2015 11:44:39 GMT -5 mlt said:

Feb 4, 2015 11:37:28 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

What do recruits see in this that's appealing? Especially recruits from western nations? I just can't understand.

This is what I don't get. I thought about it all night. Who sees a man being burned to death and says "sign me up!" Who raises these young men and women? Are their parents radical? Are they poor or middle class? What kind of education do they have? What has society done to contribute to their disengagement?

From a psychology standpoint it would probably be fascinating to study, but from a practical standpoint I'm not sure how you would do it. It's not like you can just go talk to these people. 

[oliverboliverbutt]

Feb 4, 2015 11:44:39 GMT -5 mlt said:

Feb 4, 2015 11:37:28 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

What do recruits see in this that's appealing? Especially recruits from western nations? I just can't understand.

This is what I don't get. I thought about it all night. Who sees a man being burned to death and says "sign me up!" Who raises these young men and women? Are their parents radical? Are they poor or middle class? What kind of education do they have? What has society done to contribute to their disengagement?

You know, to some extent I can understand radicalization. People feel like they will never be accepted or have opportunities, and see hate against muslims/immigrants everywhere.

I just can't understand how that many people get to the point where ISIS seems ok. I wouldn't have thought that sheer number of people would be susceptible to the message of hate and death, that they could care so little for their owns lives or the lives of civilians. It makes me so fucking sad for everyone involved.

[earlgreyhot]

Feb 4, 2015 11:44:39 GMT -5 mlt said:

Feb 4, 2015 11:37:28 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

What do recruits see in this that's appealing? Especially recruits from western nations? I just can't understand.

This is what I don't get. I thought about it all night. Who sees a man being burned to death and says "sign me up!" Who raises these young men and women? Are their parents radical? Are they poor or middle class? What kind of education do they have? What has society done to contribute to their disengagement?

psychopaths

[MrsAxilla]

Feb 4, 2015 11:40:19 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

Feb 3, 2015 23:05:43 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

No shit.  At least they hung her, which is a far more humane death than being burnt alive or beheaded.

Is it? I mean, unless her neck snapped in the drop, I'm not sure strangling to death is more humane than beheading.... 

I had a whole reply typed out on the various methods of execution when I realized that my knowledge comes solely from fiction books of questionable accuracy.  I guess....hanging is an "official" method of execution and I would expect a government to do it in the most humane way, which would be snapping the neck.  But this was a revenge execution, so what the fuck do I know?

[summer]

Feb 4, 2015 11:37:28 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

What do recruits see in this that's appealing? Especially recruits from western nations? I just can't understand.

I've been reading about this whenever I see something because I'm obsessed with the the why of it also.

From what I've read a lot of times it's men and women who are 2nd generation immigrants.  They've grown up in the West their whole lives and usually their parents don't seem radical. The parents are devout, but not radical.  It seems a lot of parents have no idea that there children are planning to join ISIS.  They are somehow disillusioned with the country they've grown up in and connect with this idea of building a country of their faith that practices Sharia. It seems to be a strong feeling that fighting with ISIS is a religious duty. They are often radicalized on the internet from Facebook and YouTube videos.  I'm actually wondering how long those videos are going to be publicly available since they seem to be a fabulous recruitment tool.  

As for the violence, they say it's a war and that's what happens in war.  

But like I said before, there are a lot of pedos and psychopaths in there, too.  I don't know how the other people reconcile all the kidnapping and raping of children and getting kids to behead people and what not.  It all sounds very reminiscent of the child soldiers in DRC.  

[rndmlurker]

Feb 4, 2015 12:19:57 GMT -5 Stan said:

Feb 4, 2015 12:04:33 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

But doesn't "responding to and eliminating the threat"  require a government decision?  OF COURSE there will be some sort of effect.  No effect means let's all just pretend it's not happening.  You have a good heart, but you are being incredibly naive.

I mean that I don't think governments should do things like move up executions as a response. I want governments to have a response, but I want it to be a response that will do something real, strategically. What does moving up an execution do to their ability to engage in more warfare, more terror? Nothing. That's the difference. It was punitive to a group who doesn't care about consequences. It emboldens them. That's why it was simply a revenge act and not an act I think will do any good. I am for strategic decisions that end their capabilities to make war. It's not a popular answer, but it isn't naive. 


Genuinely curious... What kind of response do you think governments should have? I am not even sure how one would go about wiping out ISIS. They seem to be everywhere in some capacity. 

[MrsAxilla]

Feb 4, 2015 14:34:21 GMT -5 summer said:

Feb 4, 2015 11:37:28 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

What do recruits see in this that's appealing? Especially recruits from western nations? I just can't understand.

I've been reading about this whenever I see something because I'm obsessed with the the why of it also.

From what I've read a lot of times it's men and women who are 2nd generation immigrants.  They've grown up in the West their whole lives and usually their parents don't seem radical. The parents are devout, but not radical.  It seems a lot of parents have no idea that there children are planning to join ISIS.  They are somehow disillusioned with the country they've grown up in and connect with this idea of building a country of their faith that practices Sharia. It seems to be a strong feeling that fighting with ISIS is a religious duty. They are often radicalized on the internet from Facebook and YouTube videos.  I'm actually wondering how long those videos are going to be publicly available since they seem to be a fabulous recruitment tool.  

As for the violence, they say it's a war and that's what happens in war.  

But like I said before, there are a lot of pedos and psychopaths in there, too.  I don't know how the other people reconcile all the kidnapping and raping of children and getting kids to behead people and what not.  It all sounds very reminiscent of the child soldiers in DRC.  

Just to expand a little, I saw a segment on CNN awhile ago and it seems like these kids don't start out looking to be radicalized.  They're on message boards and social media talking about regular things with others who understand their isolation, or not fitting in as Muslims or whatever.  The radicalization is cult like.  They don't realize they are being indoctrinated until BAM!  They're radical.

[foundmylazybum]

Feb 4, 2015 17:35:17 GMT -5 Stan said:

Feb 4, 2015 16:39:48 GMT -5 rndmlurker said:

That answer is way above my pay grade, but I generally think the Colin Powell Dick Armitage (Armitage of course being no golden boy) approach to the Taliban removal in Afganistan would be something I'd like to see. NOT widespread boots on the ground (which is the Rumsfeld/Rice plan President Bush eventually went with), but rather a much lighter, highly special forces concentrated reaction. I can't tell you exactly how that would work because I'm not a high level military strategist, but that would be my preference.

Just because Jordan moved up executions here doesn't mean another type of response won't happen later Stan.

Listen--in my dream world we will quietly use a Special Forces tactical group to send over those tiny bee drones filled with viruses that inject members of ISIS and they all just slowly die of measles.  We can't always get the things we want, but we can be innovative dreamers.

[katietornado]

Jordan unleashes wrath on ISIS: 'This is just the beginning'


"We're going after them wherever they are, with everything that we have," vows Jordan's FM Egypt's grand mufti joins those calling pilot's killing barbaric and antithetical to Islam Jordan's king meets with his military's brass and relatives of the pilot killed by ISIS

Karak, Jordan (CNN)Two days after news emerged that ISIS had burned a captive Jordanian pilot to death, the Middle Eastern nation hit back, and is promising more.

Fighter jets carried out airstrikes Thursday, then returned to fly over the home of the slain 27-year-old pilot, Lt. Moath al-Kasasbeh, in the village of Ay in Karak governorate.

"This is just the beginning and you shall know who the Jordanians are," the armed forces said in a statement on state TV.

They claimed hits on ISIS training centers, arms and ammunition depots: "All targets were completely destroyed and all the planes returned to their bases safely."

The air mission was named "Moath the Martyr." State TV aired exclusive video footage of warplanes striking unspecified ISIS positions in Syria.

Jordanian Foreign Minister Nasser Judeh later stressed to CNN that the airstrikes marked the beginning of his nation's retaliation over the pilot's death, but not the start of its fight against terrorism. He vowed to destroy ISIS.

"We are upping the ante. We're going after them wherever they are, with everything that we have. But it's not the beginning, and it's certainly not the end," Judeh said.

The pilot's father, Safi al-Kasasbeh, told CNN that King Abdullah II had promised him that Jordan would avenge his son's death and bombard ISIS' de facto capital of Raqqa in Syria. On Thursday, he said that the King told him 30 Jordanian fighter jets participated in the strikes.

"The homeland is entrusted to you all," he said alongside Abdullah, in remarks shown on state television, referencing Jordan's military and calling for national unity. "... For you (troops), to honor Moath is to uphold your oath and to follow in his footsteps as soldiers for God, his prophet (and) Islam ... in defending this dear homeland."

Spokesman: 'These people will be punished'

Thursday's strikes were the latest that Jordan's military has carried out against ISIS, which captured Moath al-Kasasbeh after his F-16 fighter jet crashed near Raqqa on December 24.

Jordan is one of a handful of Middle Eastern nations taking part in the U.S.-led military coalition against ISIS. The air campaign continued with strikes elsewhere in Syria, including near Hasaka, about 150 miles (240 kilometers) northeast of Raqqa.

Pilot's uncle: Whatever it takes to destroy ISIS 03:28
PLAY VIDEO

ISIS posted photos of the destruction, and Syrian Observatory for Human Rights director Rami Abdurrahman reported that 10 militants were killed.

The video of Moath al-Kasasbeh's execution came out Tuesday, though Jordanian authorities say they think he was killed a month earlier.

Whatever the timing, the proof and savagery of al-Kasasbeh's death have moved many in Amman and elsewhere not just to condemn ISIS but to vow strong actions against it.

Government spokesman Mohammed al-Momani told CNN that Jordan's response to the killing "will be strong and will be decisive."

"We will not let this crime of killing our pilots with the horrific way it was done pass without punishment," al-Momani said. "These people will be punished."

What comes next?

In addition to meeting with al-Kasasbeh's family, King Abdullah visited his armed forces headquarters, according to the state-run Petra News Agency. He voiced confidence in Jordanian troops' readiness and got a briefing on the latest airstrikes.

It's hard to tell right away how effective Jordanian military's mission was Thursday, or what the military will do next.

Retired U.S. Army Maj. Gen. James "Spider" Marks, a CNN military analyst, said the most important thing will be not just to have one strike but a persistent effort that's well-coordinated with the coalition military effort.

"It can't be a revenge attack, it can't be vitriolic," Marks said. "... If emotions brought them in, that's fine. But at this point, it needs to be a relentless, aggressive attack ... objectively controlled so that you can achieve results on the ground. And it needs to be sustained."

On Wednesday, Jordan executed two prisoners -- Sajida al-Rishawi, a would-be suicide bomber whose release ISIS had previously demanded as part of a prisoner exchange, and Ziad Karbouli, a former top aide to the deceased leader of al Qaeda in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Al-Kasasbeh's father had demanded more be done.

"These were criminals and there is no comparison between them and Moath. His blood is more valued than Sajida al-Rishawi and Ziad Karbouli," Safi al-Kasasbeh said. "... I demand that this criminal organization (ISIS) ... be annihilated."

ISIS apparently made a big show of the pilot's brutal execution in Raqqa, with an activist network -- Raqqa Is Being Slaughtered Silently -- reporting that the killing was being shown, repeatedly, on large screens across the city.

One of ISIS' propaganda production outlets posted a video online that appears to show a crowd cheering as flames around the pilot grow.

The video features a tight shot of a boy, looking up as if in awe and saying that he would "burn the pilot" himself if he had a chance and that "all Arab tyrants should also be burned." The boy can also be heard saying, "Obama the dog."

Because the video is carefully orchestrated propaganda, CNN has no way to know whether people in Raqqa really feel this way, if other children were present or whether the video participants' responses were authentic or a result of intimidation.

Sheikh Shawki Ibrahim Abdel-Karim Allam, the grand mufti of Egypt, is among those influential Muslims -- both clerics and political leaders -- who have condemned the burning of al-Kasasbeh as "barbaric," telling CNN that it's "far away from humanity, much less religion."

It's also contrary to the goal of the group calling itself the Islamic State, which seeks to form a vast caliphate governed by its strict, perverse version of Sharia law. The pilot's killing will only hurt that cause, said Shaykh Muhammad al-Yaqoubi, who was a prominent Sunni Muslim cleric in Syria before heading into exile as the civil war there raged.

"ISIS wanted to instill terror and fear in the heart of its enemies," al-Yaqoubi told CNN's Christiane Amanpour from Morocco. "... What's happening is the opposite.

"The martyrdom of Moath has united Muslims ... against ISIS, leaving no slight room of doubt that these people do not represent Islam. They represent savagery, terrorism and extremism."

[appleaday]

Feb 5, 2015 18:53:03 GMT -5 katietornado said:

Jordan unleashes wrath on ISIS: 'This is just the beginning'

I generally don't advocate for this kind of response but, honestly, I'm all for it...ISIS needs to go.