Pope Approves Spanking, "If Dignity is Maintained"

[mbcdefg]

www.yahoo.com/parenting/pope-approves-spanking-under-one-condition-110250804352.html

Pope Francis says it’s OK to spank your children to discipline them - as long as their dignity is maintained.

Francis made the remarks this week during his weekly general audience, which was devoted to the role of fathers in the family.

Francis outlined the traits of a good father: one who forgives but is able to “correct with firmness” while not discouraging the child.

"One time, I heard a father in a meeting with married couples say ‘I sometimes have to smack my children a bit, but never in the face so as to not humiliate them,’" Francis said.

"How beautiful!" Francis remarked. "He knows the sense of dignity! He has to punish them but does it justly and moves on."

The Rev. Thomas Rosica, who collaborates with the Vatican press office, said the pope was obviously not speaking about committing violence or cruelty against a child but rather about “helping someone to grow and mature.”

"Who has not disciplined their child or been disciplined by parents when we are growing up?" Rosica said in an email. "Simply watch Pope Francis when he is with children and let the images and gestures speak for themselves! To infer or distort anything else … reveals a greater problem for those who don’t seem to understand a pope who has ushered in a revolution of normalcy of simple speech and plain gesture."

The Catholic Church’s position on corporal punishment came under sharp criticism last year during a grilling by members of a U.N. human rights committee monitoring implementation of the U.N. treaty on the rights of the child.

In its final report, the committee members reminded the Holy See that the treaty explicitly requires signatories to take all measures, including legislative and educational, to protect children from all forms of physical or mental violence - including while in the care of parents.

It recommended that the Holy See amend its own laws to specifically prohibit corporal punishment of children, including within the family, and to create ways to enforce that ban in Catholic schools and institutions around the globe.

The recommendations were prompted by reports to the committee of widespread physical abuse and use of corporal punishment in Catholic-run schools and institutions, particularly in Ireland, that committee members said had reached “endemic levels.”

The Vatican had argued that it in no way promoted corporal punishment, but that it also had no way to enforce any kind of ban on its use in Catholic schools, over which it has no jurisdiction. It noted that it was only responsible for implementing the child rights treaty inside the Vatican CityState.

That said, it stressed that the term “punishment” isn’t even used in the section of church teaching that refers to parents’ duties to “educate, guide, correct, instruct and discipline” their children.

In its written response to the committee, the Vatican said that according to church teaching, parents “should be able to rectify their child’s inappropriate action by imposing certain reasonable consequences for such behavior, taking into consideration the child’s ability to understand the same as corrective.”

The head of the Vatican delegation told the committee that he would take the U.N. proposal to ban corporal punishment in all settings back to Rome for consideration.

The Holy See isn’t the only signatory to the convention that has been singled out on the issue. Britain received a similar recommendation to repeal its law allowing parents to spank their kids when it came before the U.N. committee in 2002.

Some 39 countries prohibit corporal punishment in all settings, including at home, where most abuse occurs. Those nations range from Sweden and Germany to South Sudan and Turkmenistan.

In the United States, parents can legally hit their child as long as the force is “reasonable.” In 19 U.S. states, it’s still legal for personnel in schools to practice “paddling.”

[Deleted]

Cool Pope is still one of the oldz, deep down inside.

[heyjude]

Without reading the article does this mean he is going to see 50 Shades? He is a cool pope!

[2curlydogs]

Feb 6, 2015 15:38:31 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Cool Pope is still one of the oldz, deep down inside.

I dunno. I think we've had a few posters here say that they aren't anti-spanking. 

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2015 15:47:23 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

Feb 6, 2015 15:38:31 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Cool Pope is still one of the oldz, deep down inside.

I dunno. I think we've had a few posters here say that they aren't anti-spanking. 

It's not an opinion limited to oldz, but it is common there.

I don't take parenting advice from the celibate, as a rule. And I certainly don't take it from people that think spanking is a-ok.

[mbcdefg]

Feb 6, 2015 15:40:35 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Without reading the article does this mean he is going to see 50 Shades? He is a cool pope!

Someone needs to make a p.orno called "Turn the Other Cheek."

[heyjude]

Biting my tongue so hard!!!!

[heyjude]

Feb 6, 2015 15:51:49 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Feb 6, 2015 15:40:35 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Without reading the article does this mean he is going to see 50 Shades? He is a cool pope!

Someone needs to make a p.orno called "Turn the Other Cheek."

It probably exists. I wouldn't Google it.

[eclaires]

I don't think it sounds like he's like "yay spanking!" He was talking about the characteristics of a good father and related a story where a parent was concerned about a child maintaining their dignity. Maybe there's an argument about whether you can actually accomplish that if you are hitting a child, though. But I think the main takeaway was supposed to be that as a parent you should be concerned about maintaining your child's dignity when punishing them (spanking or not).

Regardless I don't take parenting advice from my Church, so...thanks for weighing in, Vatican.

[wawa]

Hold up.

I'm confused by this.

The Vatican had argued that it in no way promoted corporal punishment, but that it also had no way to enforce any kind of ban on its use in Catholic schools, over which it has no jurisdiction. It noted that it was only responsible for implementing the child rights treaty inside the Vatican CityState.

Ummmm...wut? The catholic church has no control over catholic schools? WTMF? How do you figure? You don't think of the pope was like, "I chatted with the big G. I got the impression he'd like if you'd stop hitting kids!" the nuns might not be like, "oh. sorry." and put down the fucking rulers?

When the bible said spare the rod and spoil the child, they were talking about taking your kid fishing.

[mbcdefg]

Feb 6, 2015 15:57:44 GMT -5 wawa said:

Hold up.

I'm confused by this.

The Vatican had argued that it in no way promoted corporal punishment, but that it also had no way to enforce any kind of ban on its use in Catholic schools, over which it has no jurisdiction. It noted that it was only responsible for implementing the child rights treaty inside the Vatican CityState.

Ummmm...wut? The catholic church has no control over catholic schools? WTMF? How do you figure? You don't think of the pope was like, "I chatted with the big G. I got the impression he'd like if you'd stop hitting kids!" the nuns might not be like, "oh. sorry." and put down the fucking rulers?

When the bible said spare the rod and spoil the child, they were talking about taking your kid fishing.

Aren't Catholic schools controlled by their archdiocese? (Although I don't see why an archdiocese wouldn't, in turn, be controlled by the Vatican.)

[wawa]

Feb 6, 2015 16:20:12 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Feb 6, 2015 15:57:44 GMT -5 wawa said:

Hold up.

I'm confused by this.
Ummmm...wut? The catholic church has no control over catholic schools? WTMF? How do you figure? You don't think of the pope was like, "I chatted with the big G. I got the impression he'd like if you'd stop hitting kids!" the nuns might not be like, "oh. sorry." and put down the fucking rulers?

When the bible said spare the rod and spoil the child, they were talking about taking your kid fishing.

Aren't Catholic schools controlled by their archdiocese? (Although I don't see why an archdiocese wouldn't, in turn, be controlled by the Vatican.)

yeah, I think they are.  I mean, I doubt the Vatican has any actual decision making control over the details of how a school is run.  But I think they could pass down some thoughts on the matter and it would mean a change.  No? 

[LoveTrains]

Feb 6, 2015 16:20:12 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Feb 6, 2015 15:57:44 GMT -5 wawa said:

Hold up.

I'm confused by this.
Ummmm...wut? The catholic church has no control over catholic schools? WTMF? How do you figure? You don't think of the pope was like, "I chatted with the big G. I got the impression he'd like if you'd stop hitting kids!" the nuns might not be like, "oh. sorry." and put down the fucking rulers?

When the bible said spare the rod and spoil the child, they were talking about taking your kid fishing.

Aren't Catholic schools controlled by their archdiocese? (Although I don't see why an archdiocese wouldn't, in turn, be controlled by the Vatican.)

Some are also run separately, I believe, like by groups of monks. Like we have two Xaverian brothers schools in my area. And a boarding school which is run by benedectine monks. 

[mbcdefg]

Feb 6, 2015 17:48:58 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

Feb 6, 2015 16:20:12 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Aren't Catholic schools controlled by their archdiocese? (Although I don't see why an archdiocese wouldn't, in turn, be controlled by the Vatican.)

Some are also run separately, I believe, like by groups of monks. Like we have two Xaverian brothers schools in my area. And a boarding school which is run by benedectine monks. 

Yes, MH's high school was run by the De La Salle Brothers, I think, and mine was under control of a convent. It's been a while (my school has since closed) and I couldn't remember if we were ultimately under the archdiocese.

[Cicero]

Feb 6, 2015 16:20:12 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

Feb 6, 2015 15:57:44 GMT -5 wawa said:

Hold up.

I'm confused by this.
Ummmm...wut? The catholic church has no control over catholic schools? WTMF? How do you figure? You don't think of the pope was like, "I chatted with the big G. I got the impression he'd like if you'd stop hitting kids!" the nuns might not be like, "oh. sorry." and put down the fucking rulers?

When the bible said spare the rod and spoil the child, they were talking about taking your kid fishing.

Aren't Catholic schools controlled by their archdiocese? (Although I don't see why an archdiocese wouldn't, in turn, be controlled by the Vatican.)

Some, not all. There are a ton of Catholic high schools in my home town (enough that they have their own athletic league). The archdiocese has pretty strict rules about where you have to live to attend each school, but there are a couple of schools that are not part of the diocese so they don't have to follow the rules set down by it. They pull athletes from the entire city, offer scholarships, and as a result often win the league and state.

[redheadbaker]

Philadelphia has Archdiocesen schools (elementary and high schools), but also has private schools that are Catholic-affiliated but not under Archdiocese rule. And I agree that while the Vatican has no direct control, they should realize that they do have a lot of influence.