Thoughts?

[spedrunner]

I am looking for opinions and thoughts regarding a student on the spectrum. I am a special ed teacher in a self contained classroom and am struggling with balancing to gives students what they need, challenge them, and also make them feel safe and comfotable

Anyone familiar with autism knows the sense of control and anxiety that is involved. The need for structure , routine, and broken down tasks are very much preferred

I struggle with creating a safe environment but also want to prepare my students for the "real" world. Unfortunately things do not run as smoothly outside as they do in my room

What are your thoughts on anxiety and change'? Any tome I introduce a new concept , idea, etcetera one of my students absolutely hates it. I explain it , prepare him, show pictura. I can just tell it drives him nuts bc it is out of his control

He has major anxoety and control issues. He will try to talk over any adult that is having a conversation (his parents, teachers, etc).
We do a guided reading program which he detests. He cries the entire time and when it comes to his turn he will do exactly the opposite of what is asked of him. For ex if I ask and show him to hold the book with two hands to make it easier he refuses and cries and hides one hand and tries to only hold it with one hand which in turn does not work and closes, and makes him frustrated as well. He refuses to look at the pictures in the book whe. Other stidents are holding it up. He actually turns his head. Hides it or completely turns around. He seems so distressed and uncomfortable that I can feel his anxiety

Just wanted some thoughts. I go back and forth. I want him to participate but don't want to force him or make him more anxious or uncomfortable but I also can not allow him to run and do something alone which would be much easier

I know what to do , first then works well with him "first we do this The you can earn play kitchen time". I guess I am more interested in what is causing this and why the anxoety? Is it control!? Is ot behavior?

[spedrunner]

auntie

[auntie]

Feb 8, 2015 6:24:47 GMT -5 spedrunner said:

I am looking for opinions and thoughts regarding a student on the spectrum. I am a special ed teacher in a self contained classroom and am struggling with balancing to gives students what they need, challenge them, and also make them feel safe and comfotable


Finding a balance is hard. There's probably a different set-point for each student in your class based on their individual brand of ASD, any comorbids they have and their levels of impairment and atypicality. Then you have to factor in how the other major players in their lives manage them. 

IMO, discomfort is part of the process of growth. But if the rest of the team- especially mom, can't accept that- your contribution to growing him into a more capable and resilient child will be muted at best.

Anyone familiar with autism knows the sense of control and anxiety that is involved. The need preference for structure , routine, and broken down tasks are very much preferred

I can only speak to my own DS who has Aspergers (along with ADHD, GAD and dyslexia) and has never needed the level of support found in a self contained setting. We tried to find a balance between setting him up to be successful, but not overly accommodating him. 


For me, it helped to think about what his needs are- air, water, food, a roof over his head, clothing, and education. Teaching him to be OK when things weren't as he'd prefer or choose to dictate on small stakes items helped him learn that he could be OK on bigger ticket items. It was about picking on small thing and expanding on that. Deliberate sabotage helped us. As a little kid, DS liked waffles (frozen Eggo Buttermilk only). Not a huge deal, but my organizational skills prevented DS from learning to enjoy other breakfasts. So I ran out of Eggos and substituted pancakes. Was he happy at first? Hells no. But he came around and I was able to introduce French toast, homemade waffles and scrambled eggs in addition. Ditto his favorite clothing; the preferred tee lingered in the laundry while he learned to be OK wearing other shirts.



I struggle with creating a safe environment but also want to prepare my students for the "real" world. Unfortunately things do not run as smoothly outside as they do in my room


That's the bitch. They're entitled to safety, but not necessarily comfort. Discomfort, however, must be meted out in such doses that the kids don't shut down entirely. It's tough because in a class of 10 kiddos, how hard you need to push them is going to be different. In order to harden them off that they can be OK in the real world, you have to make them a little uncomfortable and you need buy-in from others on the team. Especially mom.

What are your thoughts on anxiety and change'? Any tome I introduce a new concept , idea, etcetera one of my students absolutely hates it. I explain it , prepare him, show pictura. I can just tell it drives him nuts bc it is out of his control


What sort of therapy is this child getting outside of the classroom? Does he have the bandwidth for CBT? Is he on medication for his anxiety? Does he understand his anxiety on an intellectual level. It sounds like you are taking the right steps to prepare him.


So what else might be driving this bus. Is he one of those kids who doesn't understand that he's a child? Does he not know that there is a socially constructed hierarchy that put you in charge of the classroom in the role of teacher? Sometimes relieving a child who thinks they're an adult can dial down the anxiety.

He has major anxoety and control issues. He will try to talk over any adult that is having a conversation (his parents, teachers, etc).

What's the consequence for that? DS used to always try to redirect my attention from other people because I was his preferred person. We worked on reminding him of his role as a little kid and helped him to see the benefits to that role. A lot of permissive parents find this kind of conversation hard to have, as if they're somehow harming their child's self esteem to help them understand their role as a child or student.


We do a guided reading program which he detests. He cries the entire time and when it comes to his turn he will do exactly the opposite of what is asked of him. For ex if I ask and show him to hold the book with two hands to make it easier he refuses and cries and hides one hand and tries to only hold it with one hand which in turn does not work and closes, and makes him frustrated as well. He refuses to look at the pictures in the book whe. Other stidents are holding it up. He actually turns his head. Hides it or completely turns around. He seems so distressed and uncomfortable that I can feel his anxiety

He needs to learn to be OK with this or he won't progress beyond where he is now. And his current behaviors will be a whole hell of a lot less cute when he's 12, 16, 25 and beyond. 

Can you break it down into baby-steps. Maybe do a Social Story about reading class and the expected behavior. Maybe relieve him of taking a turn but attend to making him participate by looking at the pictures when others do.

Just wanted some thoughts. I go back and forth. I want him to participate but don't want to force him or make him more anxious or uncomfortable but I also can not allow him to run and do something alone which would be much easier


He's not going to learn to live with his anxiety without some real practice being uncomfortable. This is probably beyond the scope of even a self contained classroom and a highly qualified teacher. He may even need medication to manage the anxiety so that he is available for learning these important lessons. DS's psychologist would say the ability to be OK and flexible in a situation where you have little control but your own reaction is the greatest predictor of how well integrated a kid on spectrum will be in the mainstream. He claims it's more important than IQ.

I know what to do , first then works well with him "first we do this The you can earn play kitchen time". I guess I am more interested in what is causing this and why the anxoety? Is it control!? Is ot behavior?

You might not be able to tease out how much is pure anxiety and how much is anxiety that results from the no-confidence vote that is never letting him be challenged. And some of the control stuff could be behavior that works for him. Most on spectrum do have a heightened sense of anxiety- it drives the bus at my house. 

[spedrunner]

I am looking for opinions and thoughts regarding a student on the spectrum. I am a special ed teacher in a self contained classroom and am struggling with balancing to gives students what they need, challenge them, and also make them feel safe and comfotable





Finding a balance is hard. There's probably a different set-point for each student in your class based on their individual brand of ASD, any comorbids they have and their levels of impairment and atypicality. Then you have to factor in how the other major players in their lives manage them.



IMO, discomfort is part of the process of growth. But if the rest of the team- especially mom, can't accept that- your contribution to growing him into a more capable and resilient child will be muted at best.


MOM def. wants to baby him. She admits she has difficulty letting him get upset and usually gives in. I know it is out of my control, she knows what she HAS to do, but never follows through


Anyone familiar with autism knows the sense of control and anxiety that is involved. The need preference for structure , routine, and broken down tasks are very much preferred



I can only speak to my own DS who has Aspergers (along with ADHD, GAD and dyslexia) and has never needed the level of support found in a self contained setting. We tried to find a balance between setting him up to be successful, but not overly accommodating him.





For me, it helped to think about what his needs are- air, water, food, a roof over his head, clothing, and education. Teaching him to be OK when things weren't as he'd prefer or choose to dictate on small stakes items helped him learn that he could be OK on bigger ticket items. It was about picking on small thing and expanding on that. Deliberate sabotage helped us. As a little kid, DS liked waffles (frozen Eggo Buttermilk only). Not a huge deal, but my organizational skills prevented DS from learning to enjoy other breakfasts. So I ran out of Eggos and substituted pancakes. Was he happy at first? Hells no. But he came around and I was able to introduce French toast, homemade waffles and scrambled eggs in addition. Ditto his favorite clothing; the preferred tee lingered in the laundry while he learned to be OK wearing other shirts.







I struggle with creating a safe environment but also want to prepare my students for the "real" world. Unfortunately things do not run as smoothly outside as they do in my room





That's the bitch. They're entitled to safety, but not necessarily comfort. Discomfort, however, must be meted out in such doses that the kids don't shut down entirely. It's tough because in a class of 10 kiddos, how hard you need to push them is going to be different. In order to harden them off that they can be OK in the real world, you have to make them a little uncomfortable and you need buy-in from others on the team. Especially mom.



What are your thoughts on anxiety and change'? Any tome I introduce a new concept , idea, etcetera one of my students absolutely hates it. I explain it , prepare him, show pictura. I can just tell it drives him nuts bc it is out of his control





What sort of therapy is this child getting outside of the classroom? Does he have the bandwidth for CBT? Is he on medication for his anxiety? Does he understand his anxiety on an intellectual level. It sounds like you are taking the right steps to prepare him.



He receives OT, PT and Speech service outside the classroom but at school He is also involved in a special needs sports program, but often times cries and tells his mom he doesnt want to go and she gives in.......he also see's a child psych, he is on paxil


So what else might be driving this bus. Is he one of those kids who doesn't understand that he's a child? Does he not know that there is a socially constructed hierarchy that put you in charge of the classroom in the role of teacher? Sometimes relieving a child who thinks they're an adult can dial down the anxiety.



Hmm, i never thought about it this way. He mocks me, he repeats what I say and is fascinated when others get "in trouble" or are asked to settle down until they are ready to rejoin the group. He often times will mimick ME and can pretty much talk in my voice, tone and knows my routine (for morning meeting, etc).  He will often times go over to students "chilling out" and try to bend down to their level and talk to them, like I would do "DO you know why I asked you to sit down?", etc.

He has major anxoety and control issues. He will try to talk over any adult that is having a conversation (his parents, teachers, etc).



What's the consequence for that? DS used to always try to redirect my attention from other people because I was his preferred person. We worked on reminding him of his role as a little kid and helped him to see the benefits to that role. A lot of permissive parents find this kind of conversation hard to have, as if they're somehow harming their child's self esteem to help them understand their role as a child or student.


We have a rule to raise your hand. I give him my FULL attention, praise and will pretty much do anything he asks for IF he raises his hand.......he tries NOT to raise his hand, (i am assuming another control issue?) and seeing if i will cave. I wont. He gets upset, cries, tries to get in my face. I wont give him attention until he raises his hand (this breaks my heart, but i feel its important)




We do a guided reading program which he detests. He cries the entire time and when it comes to his turn he will do exactly the opposite of what is asked of him. For ex if I ask and show him to hold the book with two hands to make it easier he refuses and cries and hides one hand and tries to only hold it with one hand which in turn does not work and closes, and makes him frustrated as well. He refuses to look at the pictures in the book whe. Other stidents are holding it up. He actually turns his head. Hides it or completely turns around. He seems so distressed and uncomfortable that I can feel his anxiety



He needs to learn to be OK with this or he won't progress beyond where he is now. And his current behaviors will be a whole hell of a lot less cute when he's 12, 16, 25 and beyond.


Ok, this is where i stand too. I just wanted to make sure I wasnt being "too hard" on him


Can you break it down into baby-steps. Maybe do a Social Story about reading class and the expected behavior. Maybe relieve him of taking a turn but attend to making him participate by looking at the pictures when others do.


I have done the social stories, break things into steps, make him his own schedule, but he still shows resistance, he just wants it OVER with. he hates it, i cant seem to figure out why


Just wanted some thoughts. I go back and forth. I want him to participate but don't want to force him or make him more anxious or uncomfortable but I also can not allow him to run and do something alone which would be much easier





He's not going to learn to live with his anxiety without some real practice being uncomfortable. This is probably beyond the scope of even a self contained classroom and a highly qualified teacher. He may even need medication to manage the anxiety so that he is available for learning these important lessons. DS's psychologist would say the ability to be OK and flexible in a situation where you have little control but your own reaction is the greatest predictor of how well integrated a kid on spectrum will be in the mainstream. He claims it's more important than IQ.



I know what to do , first then works well with him "first we do this The you can earn play kitchen time". I guess I am more interested in what is causing this and why the anxoety? Is it control!? Is ot behavior?



You might not be able to tease out how much is pure anxiety and how much is anxiety that results from the no-confidence vote that is never letting him be challenged. And some of the control stuff could be behavior that works for him. Most on spectrum do have a heightened sense of anxiety- it drives the bus at my house.



THANK YOU once again for all your help, thoughs and suggestions! You are a pretty amazing woman!


Read more: pandce.proboards.com/thread/418129/thoughts?page=1#ixzz3RCN4sd3p

[auntie]

Thanks for the kind words. spedrunner

It sounds a bit like he's never been sabotaged because his mom can't go there. It's hard to. I get it. But the  bestest ever IEP and teacher aren't going to help him if he's the tail wagging the dog at home.

If he's been on the Paxil a while he may have outgrown it. How old are your kids? Paxil is sort of an odd choice; it's known to be the single most difficult SSRI to wean off of should it become necessary. It also has the highest incidence of "black box incidents" as well as weight gain of the SSRIs.

(DS takes Paxil, but he started before all this was known and the choices were basically between Paxil and Prozac. I'd love him to trial something else, but he's doing well on Paxil and doesn't want to switch things up.)

It also sounds like he's of the mind that he's a co-teacher of the class. i.e. the rule police.

Have you ever read this book-

www.amazon.com/Parenting-Your-Asperger-Child-Individualized/dp/0399530703/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423492631&sr=8-1&keywords=parenting+your+aspergers

It might help you understand his quirks a bit better. Maybe his mom could take something away from this as well. The path she's on is one that leads to any form of independence. So.hn is DS's psychologist and my coach around making choices to drive DS to independence even when the strategies seemed counter-intuitive.

[spedrunner]

Thanks Auntie, I will be getting that book for sure!

I am not sure why they chose paxil. Ill ask his mom (we have pretty great communication) I have noticed recent weight gain with the meds in him

He has only been on it for a few months. He is a 3rd grader, 9 years old (my students are K-3, 5-9 years old)

Yes, i see his is my co-teacher I have clearly laid out the rules and my expectations for him He is already getting it, he earns points for desirable behavior, and unfortunately looses points for uncooperative behaviors

I will be checking out that book and also recc. it to mom

[auntie]

Feb 9, 2015 13:21:49 GMT -5 spedrunner said:

Thanks Auntie, I will be getting that book for sure!

Great. I would read it and then decide if it's something from which mom could benefit. 

TBH, the kid is written for kids with an Aspergers presentation, it might not be as universally useful for kids with greater degrees of atypical behavior and impairment. I would expect you'd be able to take what is applicable from the book, but you might want to vet it first and share only those parts that apply in this situation.

I am not sure why they chose paxil. Ill ask his mom (we have pretty great communication) I have noticed recent weight gain with the meds in him

So this kid is off your roster next year? You might not have the time to make a big impact between now and June. It might be a plan to pick one or two behaviors and focus on those to prepare him for the intermediate grades. Maybe present it to mom in that way- that you really want to hit the behaviors that will interfere with success when he heads to 4th in the fall.

I wouldn't, however, discuss this with him as a way of expressing your sense of urgency around this. There is no better way to derail an anxious kid on spectrum than tales of draconian conditions at the next grade level. We suffered with this. Even excellent teachers who should have known better use the default threat of teachers at the next level "not putting up with _____." 

Will he be getting ESY? And if his mom doesn't stay with the program and/or his new teachers don't as well, he'll probably regress.

Be careful mentioning the meds. A lot of parents find this a hot button issue with teachers. They may have a legit reason for choosing Paxil; maybe mom likes it for her. Maybe she can't afford a psychiatrist and the PCP prescribed it  Maybe the fact it's available as a low cost generic is driving it. Maybe he didn't respond to the first SSRI he trialed. 

Maybe you could work around this by asking how she feels the meds are working and if she's noticed the weight gain. Usually a big weight gain is associated with the atypical antipsychotics like Risperdal. They can cause a dramatic weight gain- I've heard of kids doubling their weight in 4-6 months. At 9, the weight could also be a harbinger of puberty. Many developmentally delayed kids hit puberty on the early side and bulk up just before hitting their growth spurt. OMG, DS had a classmate in 6th who had AS and was beating on him. The kid was one of these guys- 5'6" and over 200lbs. 

He has only been on it for a few months. He is a 3rd grader, 9 years old (my students are K-3, 5-9 years old)

Yes, i see his is my co-teacher I have clearly laid out the rules and my expectations for him He is already getting it, he earns points for desirable behavior, and unfortunately looses points for uncooperative behaviors

So not a positive behavior plan. At all. Any behavior plan under which he can lose is not positive. Remember this is a crowd that is keenly focused on justice- I know DS doesn't see a world in which someone else can take the points he earned under any circumstances is remotely fair. Under such a scheme, he would hyperfocus on what you did wrong and you would have lost him.

Be aware that an anxious child might not respond well to the visual type of behavior chart because the anxiety around it being "in their face" burns through the bandwidth they have available for self regulation. IME, for a lot of kids these backfire big time. And yet teachers as a group do love them some sticker charts. 

One strategy that worked well is to come up with a contract for expected behavior- I did this informally and verbally with DS. Once he committed to a clearly defined set of behaviors, he's was generally compliant. If he wasn't, we stopped what we were doing and talked about it. Sometimes, we'd revisit it and give him a do-over to make it right after discussing how something could have gone better. A behavioral post mortem of sorts.

I will be checking out that book and also recc. it to mom