Okay so I am back at work. For the WMs out there - what is your pumping and nursing schedule like and your output each pump session? I am paranoid about my supply tanking (no supply issues whatsoever to this point so I would like to keep it up.)
This is only his third day at DC and my third day back at work so I don't really have any kind of schedule etc figured out yet. But so far the past two days he's had between 15 - 17 ounces at daycare. He's also still sleeping when I leave so H gives him a 4 to 5 oz bottle before I leave. (sidenote: should he be getting more? I figure if he has around 16 - 18 ounces at daycare, 4 or 5 from DH, then nurses a few times in the evenings that puts him over 30 oz which is good right?)
SO I need to have about 22 - 25 ounces each day. I had a freezer stash (that i've just about burned through :-( ) so that has helped the past two days and today.
So yesterday here is how it went: 5 am - woke up, pumped 10 oz, 6 am - fed DS (he was awake, but I am not sure how much milk he got, DH still gave him 3 oz before they left, and he's been sleeping later than that usually so its not a guarantee he'll be awake before I leave) 10 am - pumped (6 oz) 230 - pumped (5 oz) 4 pm - picked DS up, fed him at 545, 730, 845, and then comfort nursed around 10 to help him settle down for bed (he woke back up after the 845 feeding). He was asleep from the time I picked him up until 530ish, so that is why that feeding was so late (Karen Pryor tells me to feed immediately upon reuniting. But I dont want to wake him up.)
Today so far: 5 am - pumped 9 oz 930 am - pumped 5 oz.
so i feel like my output is already decreasing. Is this fluctuation normal? But you can see that even if I pump another 4 or 5 oz this afternoon that's not really enough to make up for what he might go through today and I would like to at least be breaking even in that regard.
So what do you all do? Pump more, make sure to get a morning feeding in even if it means waking him up, feed him immediately upon returning home? Or is he taking too much to daycare?
The fluctuation is normal until you get a routine going.
I never pumped when at home unless I had missed a feeding (i.e. zb was at the babysitters at night). I always pumped at 10 and 2 at work, then bf'd on demand at home.
It sounds like you have amazing output and actually sounds like he is eating quite a bit. To put your mind at ease, I pump anywhere from 3 to 4 oz during each of my three pumping sessions at work and that's exactly what G eats, no more, no less.
Go to kellymom and use their calculator to see how much expressed BM your baby should get during the day. That will also make you feel better.
My schedule varies based on when she has her first feed of the day but basically I pump at 9 am, 12 pm, and 3 pm and nurse at 6 am, 6 pm, 8:30 pm, and dream feed at 11 pm.
IMO that is a LOT to give him at daycare. The rule of thumb is an ounce an hour for BF babies (obviously some will take more). I 100% could not have kept up with that amt. Ill bet you are underestimating what he is getting at the breast. Babies are MUCH more efficient than pumps. Personally I wouldnt pump right before he wakes up like that. I would nurse first and THEN pump. Ill bet if he gets more in that morning session he wont need quite as much later on. I wouldnt worry about his total for the day ounces. Just the ounces he gets while he is away from you.
I usually pumped at 10:00 am, nursed at noonish, pumped at 230-30, and then nursed at pickup (445). Nursed on demand all evening/night/morning. When I was trying to recover my lost freezer stash, I added in a morning pump. Even early on, my total for the 2 sessions maxed out at like 10 ounces.
So I would maybe make him smaller bottles. I never sent henry with a bottle more than like 2.5oz. Here is the thing, he might be OK wtih a smaller bottle, but if you send him with 5oz at a time, they WILL try to get it all in him since it gets dumped otherwise. I figured if they had to pull a second bottle out, oh well.
I would also 100% nurse before you leave. Try dream feeding him. That is your chance to really get the most in him yourself, and he is more efficient than the pump. Honestly to me it sounds like you are pumping plenty... Id try to nurse him yourself a little more, and watch in intake to make sure he isnt being overfed. If you break up the bottles a little and try to encourage other soothing techniques first you might get yourself a few ounces back, kwim?
As far as upping output, water, oatmeal, fenugreek
It's been a while- DD is 2.5 and I have forgotten a lot of the numbers, but I agree, he seems to be eating a lot. At that age I don't think was taking more than a 3oz bottle every 3 hours. How long is he at daycare?
I also left work before DD woke up at 6AM. I pumped when I woke up and always got a lot- usually around 10oz. I also pumped around 9:30 or 10 and then again around 2:30 or 3. I usually got anywhere from 8-13 ounces total for the two pumping sessions.
I also had a huge over supply at the begining so I had a freezer stash so when I was short I didn't sweat it.
I never tried any of the pills or teas, but I do swear by oatmeal. I saw an increase in output in a day or two of eating oatmeal. I acually couldn't eat it more than a day or two a week because I would start to produce too much.
IMO that is a LOT to give him at daycare. The rule of thumb is an ounce an hour for BF babies (obviously some will take more). I 100% could not have kept up with that amt. Ill bet you are underestimating what he is getting at the breast. Babies are MUCH more efficient than pumps. Personally I wouldnt pump right before he wakes up like that. I would nurse first and THEN pump. Ill bet if he gets more in that morning session he wont need quite as much later on. I wouldnt worry about his total for the day ounces. Just the ounces he gets while he is away from you.
I usually pumped at 10:00 am, nursed at noonish, pumped at 230-30, and then nursed at pickup (445). Nursed on demand all evening/night/morning. When I was trying to recover my lost freezer stash, I added in a morning pump. Even early on, my total for the 2 sessions maxed out at like 10 ounces.
So I would maybe make him smaller bottles. I never sent henry with a bottle more than like 2.5oz. Here is the thing, he might be OK wtih a smaller bottle, but if you send him with 5oz at a time, they WILL try to get it all in him since it gets dumped otherwise. I figured if they had to pull a second bottle out, oh well.
I would also 100% nurse before you leave. Try dream feeding him. That is your chance to really get the most in him yourself, and he is more efficient than the pump. Honestly to me it sounds like you are pumping plenty... Id try to nurse him yourself a little more, and watch in intake to make sure he isnt being overfed. If you break up the bottles a little and try to encourage other soothing techniques first you might get yourself a few ounces back, kwim?
As far as upping output, water, oatmeal, fenugreek
Okay this is very helpful! 20 oz seemed like a lot for daycare but since I've been EBF I really have no idea how much he actually eats. Maybe I will try to do more bottles (I send 5 bottles, with 4 oz each now, maybe I'll do 6 bottles with 3 oz each?) He usually eats every 2 hours pretty consistently. He sleeps a lot at night (anywhere from 7 - 9 hours, so his calories come completely from 7 am until 9 pm approximately.)
Does "dream feeding" wake him up? I feel so bad waking him up, he sleeps so nicely in the AMs and gets so angry at me lol.
yeah 20 oz for what... 9 hours? that is a TON. That is more than 2 ounces per hour. Kellymom will tell you too that an ounce and hour is a good rule of thumb. Id send more smaller bottles but decrease the overall ounces.
The idea of dream feeding is to not wake him. Basically you stick your boob in his mouth while snoozing and he will nurse. Doesnt work for all babies but Id give it a try...
yeah 20 oz for what... 9 hours? that is a TON. That is more than 2 ounces per hour. Kellymom will tell you too that an ounce and hour is a good rule of thumb. Id send more smaller bottles but decrease the overall ounces.
The idea of dream feeding is to not wake him. Basically you stick your boob in his mouth while snoozing and he will nurse. Doesnt work for all babies but Id give it a try...
well I send 20 but that's not what he takes. Yesterday he took 17 oz and the day before only 15. He eats about every 2 hours, pretty much right on schedule. Kellymom is telling me about 3, 3.7 oz per feeding if i'm doing 8 feedings a day (which is what we were doing approximately while I was home.) So maybe I will start doing 3 oz bottles and see if that helps allay my fears about not enough supply.
I will try this dream feeding lol and see how it goes. I guess the worst that can happen is he's awake, right?
and like I said, a good daycare will try to get ALL your BM in the baby since by law it has to be tossed within an hour of touching his lips. So he may actualyl be satisfied on less.
Also, read the stuff on kelly mom or in "Womanly Art of BFing" on how to bottlefeed a breastfed baby, and educate your DH and DC provider on that... it will help stretch his nursing out so if you are making smaller bottles, slowing him down will help. Just like for adults, eat slower and realizing you are 'full' will be more accurate, kwim? It more closely replicates how babies nurse too. With little breaks, and just holding nipple in their mouth etc. Also make sure he is on slowest flow nipple. Frequent burp breaks, give bottle more 'sitting up' so it isnt just like pouring in... etc.
yeah 20 oz for what... 9 hours? that is a TON. That is more than 2 ounces per hour. Kellymom will tell you too that an ounce and hour is a good rule of thumb. Id send more smaller bottles but decrease the overall ounces.
The idea of dream feeding is to not wake him. Basically you stick your boob in his mouth while snoozing and he will nurse. Doesnt work for all babies but Id give it a try...
well I send 20 but that's not what he takes. Yesterday he took 17 oz and the day before only 15. He eats about every 2 hours, pretty much right on schedule. Kellymom is telling me about 3, 3.7 oz per feeding if i'm doing 8 feedings a day (which is what we were doing approximately while I was home.) So maybe I will start doing 3 oz bottles and see if that helps allay my fears about not enough supply.
I will try this dream feeding lol and see how it goes. I guess the worst that can happen is he's awake, right?
OH ok that isnt as crazy then 15-17 is more than the 1oz rule but like I said, some kids take in more than that. 20 sounded like a ton
When I was worried about stash I sent in smaller bottles like that and then I also sent in a few mini 1-ish oz bottles that they could use to add onto the end of feedings if they needed to as extras. I just gave him the small beaker bottles that come wtih the medela pump for those ones kwim?
Ill bet if you tweak a couple things you will feel more comfortable wtih your supply etc
I never pumped at home unless I absolutely needed to make my numbers for the next day (if for some reason I had a low output day and needed a one last session before bed). My schedule was 9, 12, 3 for about 30 mins at the beginning and as the year on I slowly decreased times and frequency. Oatmeal, water, fenugreek and a Guinness at night were my go tos. Sometimes on the weekend (when we fed on demand) if feedings were off and I felt full I would pump for relief. that usually got thrown in the freezer.
I agree with the more bottles, less oz in them. Even though it's a PITA I found (with both kids) that it helped the teachers in figuring out whether or not the kid was "done" vs forcing them to eat (or wasting the oz since they can't reoffer).
The avg BFed baby eats 19 to 25 oz per day so 20oz at daycare alone sound extreme.
Kellymom is telling me 25 to 30 oz a day I do not like the confusion. LOL.
Okay so tomorrow we will try doing maybe 5 3 oz bottles (so 15 oz) and see how that goes. They send back a bottle if its not used but they will toss what he doesnt finish. It seems like from the calculator 12 oz is probably what he actually needs but I'd rather err on the side of caution with an extra bottle....
and if I can work in this dream nursing then maybe DH won't have to give him a bottle (or give him a smaller bottle).
meg - my Karen Pryor book (my breastfeeding bible!) has good info on working and pumping etc but she isn't clear on the exact amounts each baby should get. And then the Baby Whisperer thinks nursing on demand is dumb. So I don't like her. LOL.
Look how cool my KP book is though. Updated for the 90s!
Okay so more bottles, smaller amounts seems to be the consensus. I need more bottles!! LOL.
I'm also trying not to overly panic about anything (sending too much, not enough, etc) bc it has only been 2 days. I figure we will find a rhythm soon enough.
I think I also need to get into the mindset that daycare should kind of be doing what I say re: feeding him, how much he gets, that kind of thing, right? I am not good at giving instructions.
Will he take his bottles cold? My kids always took their BM bottles straight from the fridge (it never even occurred to me to heat the up LOL lazy parenting) and our daycare was able to reoffer that milk again with no time restrictions on it. Just another thought.
I wouldn't get tied up in the too many oz thing..some kids eat more period. You just have to get to that magic number for yours and figure out the ways to mitigate if you don't (borrow from freezer, one last pump before bed, spread out a little less oz per bottle if it's a small amount difference). Mine avg'd 20-25 oz during an 8-9 hour period for their entire first year.
I think I also need to get into the mindset that daycare should kind of be doing what I say re: feeding him, how much he gets, that kind of thing, right? I am not good at giving instructions.
Hugs...I've been there and it's tough...with my first I got all panicky when the teacher (not familiar with BF kids) was saying BUT SHE"S STARVING!! I panicked, freaked and then realized, that if she's THAT starving she'll make up for it a night. She's not going to starve for the 8 hours while I am gone with the 20 oz of milk I have left. You are doing just fine and will get the hang of it!!!
I think 19 oz is low end and 30 oz is high end. 25 is mid range. It depends on your kid too. I seem to have an itty bitty eater. You may have a larger eater. I guess my bottom line is don't stress. You will get this all down like clockwork I'm sure!
DD needed 21-22oz of milk at daycare every damn day. :-| :-| :-| I had great supply, but the thing is that pumping is not as good stimulation as nursing, which is why EPing is so hard. IMO, it seems like successful pumpers do better if they try to maintain an oversupply to counteract the lack of stimulation pumping has.
I ALWAYS worked off of my freezer stash the whole year (really, 9 months) that I pumped at work. It keeped the stash fresh anyway, since I just used the oldest, AND I also pumped once a day on the weekends to keep my supply from adjusting back down and so that I had a bit more for the week ahead, or to put back towards my stash.
I don't think I ever got more than 15oz at work, so yeah, I was having to make up that 6+oz all the time.
I took fenugeek and ate oatmeal and they worked well for me, imo. They made me hungry more often, as did letting down itself, so losing weight wasn't an option during that time.
I pumped 3 times a day at work for the majority of the time, and then went down to twice a day at about 7 months old. In retrospect, I should have done twice a day at about 6 or 5 months of her age, but I was too nervous to change anything then.
Also, the advice from other working moms seems to include a lot of letting your kid reverse cycle a bit so you can nurse more and not have to pump as much. That was NOT an option I was willing to take as it meant less sleep for me.
When we first sent DS to daycare he was eating every 3-4 hours. Based on our scheduled I was sending 3- 6oz bottles and that was the 2 he definitely needed and a spare. He ate at 6/9/12/3 or as soon as we got home/6/9. The middle was the only variable part. He also started to reverse cycle at daycare so he would skip a feeding and adding in 3 close together at night.
I pumped as soon as I woke up, 10a and 2p at the office. The as soon as I woke up was the "extra" bottle for the day. It really helped me build a stash because we would send 3 bottles and bring home one so I was only needed 2 bottles/day but pumping 3. Hopefully that makes sense.
I have a psychotic spreadsheet that I can send you if you would like that tracked my pumping times, output and the oz he ate at daycare.
ETA: I made sure to drink a TON of water to keep up my supply and did the early morning pump even on the weekends. It helped me keep a few bottles ahead.
Re: dream feeding - I agree with this, especially since as a working mom you are only nursing him in the early morning and evening at most and you'll want to encourage longer and longer spans of not nursing at night as time goes on. You need as many acutal nursings as you can get with him for the stimulation - plus it makes me tons happier than pumping .
Its not *really* waking him up as much as just picking him up and offering the boob. If he was sleeping for a while before and was hungry not too much later I bet he'd go for it.
Oh crap I forgot soemthing else. Dunno your setup and your daycare's rules, but if you are sending milk that you pumped yesterday, for instance, its still good for I think 4 days total so long as it doesn't sit out for hours. So if they have a fridge right there and are good at labeling and all, extra can sit in the fridge until the next day.
Maybe that was one advantage of having a HDCP after all. ::shrugs::
6:30 AM- Nurse 7:00 AM- Pump while I drive to work- Usually get 4-5 oz 11:00 AM- Pump- Usually get 8-9 oz 3:00 PM- Pump- Usually get 6-7 oz 6:00PM- Nurse 8:00 PM- Nurse 4:00 AM- Nurse
DD is averaging 14-16 ounces while we are apart taking 3-4 ounce bottles every 2-3 hours. She is 4 months and weighs 14.5 pounds.
I will say, I did the 'one extra pump' when I got home thing. If my kid wanted to eat at 4 pm, 6 pm, and 10 pm, I pumped at 8. Just made my body think there was an 'extra' feeding in there. It was NBD, I did it before I washed pump parts for the night. It gave me a bigger buffer.
Oh crap I forgot soemthing else. Dunno your setup and your daycare's rules, but if you are sending milk that you pumped yesterday, for instance, its still good for I think 4 days total so long as it doesn't sit out for hours. So if they have a fridge right there and are good at labeling and all, extra can sit in the fridge until the next day.
Agreed. I would send 5 4oz bottles, and if Nae only drank 3 bottles, they would keep the other two at daycare and then use those two first. I would always mark the date the milk was expressed on her bottles with a round sticker. If I had to use any freezer stash milk, I would mark it as 1st meaning that she needed that bottle 1st.
You've gotten great advice. The only thing I would add is a pumping session before bed. Even if he nursed on one side, I'd just empty the other breast (if he's not taking both breasts).
So did anyone use a nursing bra that held the shields in place for hands free pumping?
I find that I can kind of wedge the shields in my normal nursing bra and it works well enough. I cant move around a lot but I can sit there and read my nook. LOL.
So did anyone use a nursing bra that held the shields in place for hands free pumping?
Yes the Simple Wishes one. I was skeptical as I had big boobs (DD) and couldn't imagine something holding them and the horns up on their own. It worked perfectly and I wished I had it for the year I pumped with DD! I think I ended up with carpal tunnel due to all the holding the horns I did with her. This bra changed my life with #2.
sorry, the internet hates me today. Long post. the internet only wants to let me post the last 10 characters or so.
So...yes, also used the 'simple wishes' pumping bra. Loved it, it was a lifesaver. Pumping while driving (which is NOT as sketchy as it sounds) was also a lifesaver.