I also feel like Joe's thought process is that since he doesn't mean anything by it, you don't get to be uncomfortable with it, which come on, fuck you, Joe. Stop it.
Is Joe Biden a man who thinks, even passively, that he, as a man, has control over women's bodies and that the autonomy of women is irrelevant? No, I'm going to say that, given his history of standing up for women and reproductive health issues, he's not a misogynist creep. Also, he's an equal opportunity toucher.
Are some people really uncomfortable being touched by strangers, friends or acquaintances, regardless of the circumstance? Yes. So even people who are touchy-feely should respect boundaries.
Basically, he's not as much of an asshole as he could be, but he should, indeed, check himself here.
Is Joe Biden a man who thinks, even passively, that he, as a man, has control over women's bodies and that the autonomy of women is irrelevant? No, I'm going to say that, given his history of standing up for women and reproductive health issues, he's not a misogynist creep. Also, he's an equal opportunity toucher.
Wait, what? NO. I am beyond offended by this line of reasoning and excuse making for him just because he is a vocal supporter of women's rights in this particular arena but not another.
He very obviously thinks his intentions trumps a woman's feelings/reactions. That's misogynistic and creepy regardless of whether he'd pay for a woman's abortion or thinks a rape victim was ever asking for it.
At this point, it's like saying someone isn't a racist because they don't support slavery, give to the United Negro College Fund and yet, don't want black men to date their daughters.
There is definitely a misogynistic bent to what he's doing.
Is Joe Biden a man who thinks, even passively, that he, as a man, has control over women's bodies and that the autonomy of women is irrelevant? No, I'm going to say that, given his history of standing up for women and reproductive health issues, he's not a misogynist creep. Also, he's an equal opportunity toucher.
Wait, what? NO. I am beyond offended by this line of reasoning and excuse making for him just because he is a vocal supporter of women's rights in this particular arena but not another.
He very obviously thinks his intentions trumps a woman's feelings/reactions. That's misogynistic and creepy regardless of whether he'd pay for a woman's abortion or thinks a rape victim was ever asking for it.
At this point, it's like saying someone isn't a racist because they don't support slavery, give to the United Negro College Fund and yet, don't want black men to date their daughters.
There is definitely a misogynistic bent to what he's doing.
I am here and there are some lies up in here if these would be the reactions if it was Mitt Romney or GW and not "Uncle Joe." SOME LIES. No way does that give him any right...this is very 'well, my best friend is black."
Do we have any pictures of men looking decidedly uncomfortable with the way Biden is touching them?
Because I feel like we're ignoring the different dynamics between two men than one that exists between a man and a woman, especially when that man holds the second highest position of power in the country.
Do we have any pictures of men looking decidedly uncomfortable with the way Biden is touching them?
Because I feel like we're ignoring the different dynamics between two men than one that exists between a man and a woman, especially when that man holds the second highest position of power in the country.
I totally agree with your second part. But just to answer the first with the first page of google results:
None of those even come CLOSE to the one with the young girl who looks like she wants to chew her own arm off to get away, and the second might be fake. But...yeah, kinda would be the answer I think.
Look, it's not the he seems to be as touchy feely with men as he is with women. It's the fact that women has less leeway to protest and are less likely to be respected, and are in fact, conditioned to just live with discomfort than men are that's the entire problem here.
DO NOT put your hand on the inside of a young woman's/teen's/tween's arm and lean in with your mouth near her head. That girl's boobies are growing. And something new and sensitive. A NEW private part of which she is aware and likely self-conscious, because, let's face it, we were almost all self conscious about our boobs growing up. Inside the bicep is a very sensitive private place for a girl and if she is LEANING THE FUCK AWAY FROM YOU let go of her fucking arm and get your old man denture breath away from her face/ear/hair/neck.
My hair is standing on end because of a pedophile family member that used to do that shit and because of an old boss who bullied people by grabbing them on the inside of their arm like that. Both totally freaked me out for different reasons.
Some of these pictures make me uncomfortable. Some of them seem like an issue is trying to be made out of nothing (i.e., the two elderly woman).
This reminds me of that article we discussed here a long time ago about not forcing kids to hug people. I decide who gets to touch my body. So does everyone else, man or woman. I love me some Joe Biden, but he does NOT have the right to be all touchy. Is that how it is in his family? Cool. Keep it in the family. Him trying to kiss that one pre-teen girl was so awful.
I am fascinated as to why this hasn't blown up in to a bigger issue. Can you imagine the reaction if this was Dick Cheney?
Is Joe Biden a man who thinks, even passively, that he, as a man, has control over women's bodies and that the autonomy of women is irrelevant? No, I'm going to say that, given his history of standing up for women and reproductive health issues, he's not a misogynist creep. Also, he's an equal opportunity toucher.
Are some people really uncomfortable being touched by strangers, friends or acquaintances, regardless of the circumstance? Yes. So even people who are touchy-feely should respect boundaries.
Basically, he's not as much of an asshole as he could be, but he should, indeed, check himself here.
I don't agree that his stance on women's issues has anything to do with this particular debate, but I do agree wholeheartedly that he's an equal opportunity toucher.
I think labeling him as a misogynist or "creeper" is misleading when the real argument has to do with the right to bodily autonomy. Some people don't like to be touched, people need to respect that, people in power need to be doubly aware of that particular minefield. But I feel like pretending like he just hones in on women detracts from the main point.
Please reread and digest what I said about the difference between the power men have and the lack of it that women and girls have.
If a man says stop touching me or behaves as if they are uncomfortable with it, the vast majority of people will back off, and easily. Society takes it as fact that most men are uncomfortable with touch or shows of affection and behave accordingly. Now there are a variety of reasons for this and it does hurt men that this is a "truth" but there you have it and it's respected and taken as the default.
Women however are raised entirely differently. Girls are taught from an early age to suffer physical touch, emotional closeness regardless of who it comes from, especially if the other person "doesn't mean anything by it." To protest or back off is to be seen as hard, cold, rude, or just a flat out bitch. If a woman has a problem with excessive touch, that is seen as her problem and her problem only, if not an unnatural reaction.
Whether anyone likes it or not that's what makes this whole issue misogynistic. Not because I believe Biden is a misogynist but because society as a whole is a misogynist place and Biden is taking advantage of that to be affable old Uncle Joe at the expense mostly of women.
I need to understand how we know and acknowledge that racism is a system of inequality that goes beyond the individual's feelings about diversity but we're sitting here saying that misogyny is about Biden's feelings and intentions.
I need wrathofkuus and asdfjkl to weigh in here. I can guess pretty well how kuus is going to take this. But I'm curious what sbp will think.
I need to understand how we know and acknowledge that racism is a system of inequality that goes beyond the individual's feelings about diversity but we're sitting here saying that misogyny is about Biden's feelings and intentions.
I need wrathofkuus and asdfjkl to weigh in here. I can guess pretty well how kuus is going to take this. But I'm curious what sbp will think.
Didn't we (almost) all acknowledge that Biden is handsy with everyone and needs to stop it?
I need to understand how we know and acknowledge that racism is a system of inequality that goes beyond the individual's feelings about diversity but we're sitting here saying that misogyny is about Biden's feelings and intentions.
I need wrathofkuus and asdfjkl to weigh in here. I can guess pretty well how kuus is going to take this. But I'm curious what sbp will think.
Didn't we (almost) all acknowledge that Biden is handsy with everyone and needs to stop it?
No. No we didn't. If we did, I wouldn't be here in danger of spraining my eyeballs.
No, you're missing the point. He touches everybody. He's a feeler of the feels. I think it was asked upthread whether he touches men the same way. He does.
No, you're missing the point. He touches everybody. He's a feeler of the feels. I think it was asked upthread whether he touches men the same way. He does.
Who cares if he is a feeler. If people are uncomfortable, which will be a great deal, he needs to stop or be told to stop. Being a feeler doesn't give him a pass. I have no idea if you are saying the latter, but the post of men being felt by him is off topic because who cares? Like I said upthread, giving him any pass (in general...I haven't a clue as to your stance so I do not want to speak for you) in any sense/for any reason is erroneous.
To me, those didn't read as the same kind of touching, mostly because the vast majority of those men were cool with it and/or on similar footing.
Hugging someone who is bawling their eyes out is not the same as getting in the personal space of a adolescent girl who knows full well she's expected to stand there and 'be a lady'.
And the president of the United States has the leeway to tell Biden to step the fuck off when he's all up on his ear while many of those other women and girls pictured do not.
First off, teflepi your sig is killing me in this thread.
Second, I don't think anyone is saying that Biden is acting appropriately. The debate seems to be whether he knows he's being inappropriate or not. I don't think the intent matters at all. No one should be touching anyone else without their express permission. I'm sure he's been told this before and he's choosing to ignore it.
I honestly thought this had died down some since there didn't seem to be as many "Creepy Uncle Joe" photos floating around. I'm disappointed in him.
No, you're missing the point. He touches everybody. He's a feeler of the feels. I think it was asked upthread whether he touches men the same way. He does.
Who cares if he is a feeler. If people are uncomfortable, which will be a great deal, he needs to stop or be told to stop. Being a feeler doesn't give him a pass. I have no idea if you are saying the latter, but the post of men being felt by him is off topic because who cares? Like I said upthread, giving him any pass (in general...I haven't a clue as to your stance so I do not want to speak for you) in any sense/for any reason is erroneous.
Ok.
Clearly people want to fight about this when I agree with them. You and HBC continue on.
Who cares if he is a feeler. If people are uncomfortable, which will be a great deal, he needs to stop or be told to stop. Being a feeler doesn't give him a pass. I have no idea if you are saying the latter, but the post of men being felt by him is off topic because who cares? Like I said upthread, giving him any pass (in general...I haven't a clue as to your stance so I do not want to speak for you) in any sense/for any reason is erroneous.
Ok.
Clearly people want to fight about this when I agree with them. You and HBC continue on.
This did not come across in your posts so I apologize. It was said in 1/2 the posts on page 1 that people were okay with it. Skeeved me something fierce.