A baby heightens all the issues you have and didn't really deal with.
Yes. This times a million. I know it's not the point, but I now hate dinner. Dinner! The thought of it makes me angry. I think of this when dh is getting under my skin, to remind myself that there's a real good chance that I'm unnecessarily prickly.
Maybe that is part of the issue. I love my husband, but I've never felt what you're describing. In other relationships, I felt the butterflies, the "can't wait to see you" feelings, etc. But all of those relationships were really unhealthy. Things with H were always sort of so-so, at least before the baby. Now, we bicker and argue constantly. We've yelled, called each other terrible names, threatened divorce on multiple occasions. I feel angry much of the time about things that have always been a part of our relationship--his hobbies, his messiness, his lack of attention to detail....the list goes on. I have no patience at all for him, which causes me to treat him like shit. We've been in counseling for a while, and we both started seeing someone individually.
This sounds like a miserable way to live. The word constantly sticks out. Did you two get married because you were pregnant? Or am I thinking of another poster?
Ok, I can see some of your challenge now based on this answer and what you said to Sue Sue. You don't have some of the memories a lot of us do to fall back on when you have HAD IT TO HERE with H. You both seem to be on different pages now on how to make it better. In regards to not separating, is your H happy? Does he think this going on for the rest of your lives is ok, as you as you don't seperate or divorce? Other than seeing someone, what are you each doing to better the marriage?
That's the thing....NO, he's not happy, either. He says he deserves to be treated better, and he does. But all of the negativity, all of the conflict, all of the past wrongs have really taken their toll. He wants to stay together and "try harder", whatever that means. I don't know how anything will change if we don't change something about our situation. I don't know how to answer that question about what else we are doing to better the marriage. I guess I don't know what else to do.
I think you need to come up with (in your head) what you need from him to be able to forgive the past and move forward, not for him and not even to save your marriage but for you so you can let it go (the old carrying a grudge is like drinking poison and expecting it to kill the other person cliche). As long as you are still upset (understandably) about those things it's going to be really hard to move forward carrying those resentments either together or not. Whatever happens he is going to be your co-parent until one of you dies so you need to be in a place where you can work positively with him no matter your marital status.
Post by ninjabridemom on Mar 2, 2015 10:54:43 GMT -5
Jake's entire unemployment was a rough patch for us. We went through another one when he started as a manager. Both of those were different sets of time.
It starts when you feel like "this challenge has been going on forever" and it ends when you feel the ground beneath your feet again.
ETA oh man I forgot the first 6m we were married, lol. We were having money issues and were both commuting 1.5hrs. That really sucked. It actually got better after I went back to school and best after we moved from VA.
I think in that first year, the issues don't even have to be about the baby. Emotions run super high that first year. Your hormones are surging and waning after giving birth, both of you are knocked off-kilter in terms of schedules and sleep patterns, you're both constantly worried about the baby in one respect or another.
Look, if these issues were present before you had children, obviously that's one thing; but having a newborn around can make even the simplest disagreement blow up into something major, just because everyone's on edge to begin with.
It's a difficult decision you're making, no question; but I sort of feel like you're often looking for people to tell you what you want to hear. And nobody can really do that. I can tell you that unless the issues were looming large even before the baby came along, I wouldn't make any decisions in the first year. And I would get into couples counseling to help weather some of the storms.
It's not so much that I'm looking for people to tell me what I want to hear, but more so I'm doubting my own decisions. We definitely had issues before the baby that we didn't deal with. Those things have become more annoying, more pronounced since Hannah was born. My patience is so low for everything. We are in counseling and have been since I was pregnant. I'm just really scared to make the wrong decision.
Are you in individual counseling? It sounds like it'd be good for you to go somewhere to discuss this in the open to someone unbiased.
I guess I sort of get the sense from your posts that you don't necessarily want to make the marriage work. Which isn't a terrible thing, but I do think you need to do some soul-searching in this regard maybe. If you're only half-heartedly going to counseling or going through the motions, nothing will change. Do you really want them to change?
I do, but I don't believe they will. I also think it's unfair to ask someone to change who they are. I am really trying to get the most I can out of counseling. I'm definitely invested in that.
Does your H knows this? Have you discussed why you feel this way with your therapist?
When stbx and I were in counseling, I knew he wasn't going to actually do anything to change--because the only issues he didn't deny were the ones he felt were based in my unrealistic expectations. At that point, I was already one foot out the door but I was too scared to admit it to him.
Ok...I'm just got to ask this based on one of your posts. I mean no harm - and its a sucky thing to ask. Any chance you may have "settled" on marrying H due to age/wanting children? And now you are feeling resentful about it? That it didn't work out as you thought it would?
Post by jeaniebueller on Mar 2, 2015 11:21:11 GMT -5
Stupid question, are you guys getting time alone other than counseling? Date nights, getting out together, etc? Times where you don't have to worry about the baby or each other's habits around the house and just act as a couple? Do you have fun together? If you know you are done, you are done. There can be nothing more to say about that. But if you really want to commit and work on your marriage, I don't necessarily see how separating is going to help you do that, you know?
We've had a few rough patches - mainly the three years of trying to get pregnant, which included two miscarriages and my dad's death. I did not think we would get through it. Oddly, the first year with the twins was not that bad, but year 3 was really hard because they pretty much turned into demons.
For me, whenever I feel like things are "off", I try to think of the little things he does, or the things we used to do when we first met. It's really hard sometimes to remember the good patches when you are in a rough one.
I hope you come to a decision that gives you peace, but I do agree with others that perhaps the 1st year PP isn't the best time to make a major life decision.
I really feel for you here. I definitely think it is important to be self aware and listen to your heart/gut. If the reasons for staying are things like, "I want DD to have both parents together" or "I chose this so I have to just suffer and deal with it" or "I'm XX age so what is better/who is better/who will want me/etc," none of those are positive reasons to stay. If, instead, they are things like, "I really love this man, though I might not like him right now, and know all the stress and struggle are worth it" or "My marriage is worth saving because I can't imagine wanting to be with anyone else or myself over putting the work in to be with H" - then you really know what your heart is telling you.
No matter what, DD is going to be better off with happy parents who are happy with themselves and working toward a common goal. If that common goal is your marriage first - excellent. If the common goal is being the best co-parents to DD but not married - that is fine too. Only you know what is best for YOU.
Post by underwaterrhymes on Mar 2, 2015 13:05:59 GMT -5
First, the first year with a kid is so tough that even the strongest of marriages hit some bumps here and there.
I do think a rough patch is different than consistently not liking the person you married. There are always going to be things that drive you crazy. And every marriage is going to go through highs and lows.
But I think it's really important to start out REALLY LIKING the person you marry. It's really hard to change that once you move out of the twitterpated phase and into the real life one. Everything you don't dig is going to be magnified over time, so you have to have a lot of character traits you do really enjoy.
I hope you both are able to work through this the way you want to, even if you're not sure what that is yet.
For my marriage, the first year of my son's life was the absolute worst. I didn't think we'd make it to his first birthday as a married couple.
My son will be 2 this month and we are in a great place, the past few months have been some of the happiest ones for us.
What worked for us is that my husband changed. I honestly never thought he would change but he did. I held a lot of resentment towards him (all baby related, I felt like he wasn't pulling his weight because he fucking wasn't) and when he started making an effort, my interactions with him went from pissed off, nagging wife to a loving wife who was positive. If he didn't make that shift, I don't know where we would be today.
Hugs. I really wish you a lot of clarity to make the choice that is right for your family.
I really feel for you here. I definitely think it is important to be self aware and listen to your heart/gut. If the reasons for staying are things like, "I want DD to have both parents together" or "I chose this so I have to just suffer and deal with it" or "I'm XX age so what is better/who is better/who will want me/etc," none of those are positive reasons to stay. If, instead, they are things like, "I really love this man, though I might not like him right now, and know all the stress and struggle are worth it" or "My marriage is worth saving because I can't imagine wanting to be with anyone else or myself over putting the work in to be with H" - then you really know what your heart is telling you.
I think this is great advice.
I haven't been exactly where you are - no kids - but my first marriage was not right. I think sometimes it's easy to explain away the rough stuff - with my XH, we had a rough relationship but I could often blame whatever was going on - we moved in together, that was a rough adjustment. We moved to a new state, that's a rough adjustment. We got married, that's a rough adjustment. Etc.
Except, now that I'm with a new person who IS right and that I DO get along with, we don't have rough adjustments. We live together, and it's easy. I got laid off from my job, and he's supportive rather than defensive when I am upset. He has a stressful job (Phd) student and we work together to get through the stressful periods. IDK. I feel like a lot depends on the person and relationship, and whether or not other people go through rough periods isn't really as helpful to figuring out what you're going through as considering whether it's a relationship worth roughing it out for. I'm sure BF and I will have fights and stressful periods in the future, but having this solid foundation of working together as a team makes me a lot more confident that we could get through rough stuff than I ever felt about my XH because it was always strife with us.
You know your H and your relationship better than anyone else, so I think you'll figure out if this is really a rough time or if it's the foundation of your relationship. I also personally think that the fact that you're unsure means it's not time to divorce yet. I am somewhat of a wishy washy person about a lot of things, but one of the few times in my life that I have been ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN I was making the right choice was when I decided to divorce. It was like nothing could have stopped me or convinced me otherwise. I never felt that way, until one day I did. I feel like you'll know when you're done, and if you don't know, you're not done.
Listen, if you DID just "settle" because you were worried about your bio clock entering it's final countdown, then I feel like you have to be honest with yourself as to if you're okay having a "so-so" marriage. Because that's all it may ever be, even at it's best, and if you can find peace within yourself with that well then, KOKO.
If, however, you want more than a so-so marriage, and you feel like that's all it will ever be no matter how much time and effort he puts into it, because as you said, that's who he is and you're who YOU are, then don't waste his time or yours and move on.
It's a very black and white answer, and I'm sure there's fifty shades in this situation, but I dunno. That's how I feel about it, I guess.
Our therapist used the phrase "If you two aren't in love anymore, that's okay but you need to stop bullshitting each other. You can only fake it for so long before it becomes obvious bullshit".
And I know it's been said before, if you're done--that's totally okay.
You actually sound really sure about wanting out. It's harder to accept because he isn't really doing anything that someone would consider a "dealbreaker" It's just not the right match. And that's a perfectly acceptable reason if that's how you feel. Reading this, his lack of real effort would be a huge turn off. It seems kind of sad to me that you keep asking a message board if you're doing the right thing. No one else knows your exact situation. You need to do what you (already)know is best. Good luck
I think rough patch is a patch where you all aren't working together and fighting. However, you are fighting abut FIXABLE issues that you both WANT TO FIX. I think when you are fighting about something not fixable (ex-a facet of someone's personality that they have ALWAYS had, but you thought you could change) or that one or both parties doesn't WANT to fix-it's no longer a rough patch.
You actually sound really sure about wanting out. It's harder to accept because he isn't really doing anything that someone would consider a "dealbreaker" It's just not the right match. And that's a perfectly acceptable reason if that's how you feel. Reading this, his lack of real effort would be a huge turn off. It seems kind of sad to me that you keep asking a message board if you're doing the right thing. No one else knows your exact situation. You need to do what you (already)know is best. Good luck
I'm trying not to take offense to this because maybe you didn't intend it to sound judgy. I'm asking questions and trying to talk things out on a message board because that is my outlet during the day. I'm certainly not the first person to make multiple posts about the same situation.
It wasn't meant to be judgy. I think it prompted others to ask if you were in counseling because on one had you sound like you have made up your mind about a separation and then you seek approval here. That's just a feeling I get. I think your H sound lazy and possibly manipulative based on the fact that he doesn't want to give up or taper down something like a hobby in order to show that he's making some sort of effort. I wonder if you might try a new counselor who can help you individually. You didn't take asking for a seperation lightly and you put a lot of thought into it. and it took a ton of courage to take it to your H. And he said, " I don't wanna'" and now you're second-guessing yourself. I really wish the best for you and I hope you find the strength to come to whatever decision works best for you and your daughter (and maybe even H).
Ok, I can see some of your challenge now based on this answer and what you said to Sue Sue. You don't have some of the memories a lot of us do to fall back on when you have HAD IT TO HERE with H. You both seem to be on different pages now on how to make it better. In regards to not separating, is your H happy? Does he think this going on for the rest of your lives is ok, as you as you don't seperate or divorce? Other than seeing someone, what are you each doing to better the marriage?
That's the thing....NO, he's not happy, either. He says he deserves to be treated better, and he does. But all of the negativity, all of the conflict, all of the past wrongs have really taken their toll. He wants to stay together and "try harder", whatever that means. I don't know how anything will change if we don't change something about our situation. I don't know how to answer that question about what else we are doing to better the marriage. I guess I don't know what else to do.
I can dd the quote if you need me to.
You need to hash out what that means. Exactly. Do it in therapy, do it when you're in decent moods, just do it. Because no concrete goal of exactly WHAT needs to change (for both of you) won't help you make any decisions. I'll also say that if you do want to give this a serious try, be careful of keeping him in BEC territory. Allow yourself to step back, and recognize the steps and changes to make things work (assuming he's following through).
It's going to take a lot of work on your part, and a shift in attitude. You know that saying about how we can't control everything, but we can control how we react to them? yeah. If you think you want to try to make your marriage work, you have to consciously make a choice to stop seeing him as you opponent. Go out of your way to verbally recognize changes he makes. Do it kindly, sincerely, and without qualifications. Let yourself mean it when you say "H, I really appreciated when you chose to stay in and hang out with the baby and me, instead of going to that craft beer tasting. It was nice to have that time together as a family." Or whatever.
When I think of a rough patch, I think of a years long difficulty. Many months at the least. Our hardest spots have been when the kids were infants. I too very seriously contemplated divorce after N was born. He was working all the time, and when he was home he wasn't "present." He did NOTHING with the baby because "what can I do? she eats from you and sleeps all the time, and I have to sleep through the night because I actually have to go to work." YEAH. We were both exhausted, resentful, and just bitched at each other constantly. It was like we forgot how to be nice to each other, and neither one wanted to be the one to "break" first. So while the baby wasn't the problem, it made every little thing 1000x worse, and pushed us both to the brink.
Sue is right when she says that this is the part people talk about when they say marriage is hard. it is. If you're done, you're done, and that's ok. But it's also ok NOT to be done, and want to try.
It wasn't meant to be judgy. I think it prompted others to ask if you were in counseling because on one had you sound like you have made up your mind about a separation and then you seek approval here. That's just a feeling I get. I think your H sound lazy and possibly manipulative based on the fact that he doesn't want to give up or taper down something like a hobby in order to show that he's making some sort of effort. I wonder if you might try a new counselor who can help you individually. You didn't take asking for a seperation lightly and you put a lot of thought into it. and it took a ton of courage to take it to your H. And he said, " I don't wanna'" and now you're second-guessing yourself. I really wish the best for you and I hope you find the strength to come to whatever decision works best for you and your daughter (and maybe even H).
You are right about some of this. H isn't lazy, but he is certainly resistant to separating. I think he feels more hurt and abandoned than anything. He has tapered down the craft beer stuff, but I still find myself being irritated with him for other things. So....it's complicated. He's making an effort, I just don't know if it's too little, too late.
That's something that only you can decide.
You're here looking for validation and support, that it 100% totally okay. But we can't tell you what to decide or what to do. If you're not sure what you want to do, that's okay too--keep on as you are until you're ready to go one way or the other.
Oh we've had rough patches. But when those times that I've felt at the brink of leaving, I always remember back to the day we got married. We were going to work on the train after getting married at the court house (very romantic, lol), and I remember how amazed I was that I could be that happy and how sure I was that it would last forever. Remembering that I believed in "us" to my very core helps me get through the times when I think he's a complete jerk, lol.
I am solid on what "us" means, and the many ways being "us" has made my life better. Do you have this same idea of what your relationship is, or did you ever? For me, as a natural loner type, focusing my energies on building "us" has helped me weather the rough patches.
DotAndBuzz, thank you. This is so very hard. You are right about the BEC thing.
And as I re-read what I wrote, it came across harshly. I didn't mean it that way, truly.
I just know how when I've had it up to HERE with H (or whoever), they are BEC for me. H could bring me flowers, make dinner, and put the kids to bed, but if he's pissing me off in general, I'll be like "oh, SURE you did all that, because you probably just want to settle me down so you can get laid."
It's a me problem in that little moment.
But again, if you're done, that's also ok. Like someone else said, you can only fake it for so long. If you've gone through the motions, and things aren't looking better, or you're not feeling any true improvement, that's ok. You deserve happiness. Regardless of your decision, I hope you find it soon.
Sorry @rumpshaker, where you are is such a sucky place to be. I started considering leaving when my DS was 6 months old and in the end I couldn't really even pull the trigger myself, I waited until stbxh walked out (a month before DS turned 2) and even though he came back a few days later expecting everything would be fine again I could not keep going at that point. It was easier then because he'd already left and I didn't have to. DS and I did move out later though.
One thing we did as a last resort was Imago therapy, it was designed to rebuild the trust and goodwill in the relationship before bringing up issues. I think it's also meant to cover a lot of family of origin stuff but we never got to that. In our case I did it because I figured it would probably bring about the end but I did have a glimmer of hope that things could change in the session right before he left (like the same day!). I think in my case it really wasn't successful because my stbxh has a personality disorder and unless that was dealt with nothing would ever change. In the absence of something like that though I think it could be really helpful and would encourage you to look into it even if only as a last resort to see if things can change.
GL. Just know you aren't alone and it is a decision that definitely shouldn't be taken lightly esp when there is a child involved, so that takes time. It took 18 months for me, but why the end I was much more convinced it was the right thing for both me and DS.
*poof* I know the feeling of being done. However, that first year of babies is so incredibly hard. I'm happy I didn't make the decision to get a divorce that first year, but that doesn't mean that year of marriage was pure hell. I'm sorry .