If it was a school that taught Jewish tradition, culture, values, and beliefs, I would be okay with it.
If they taught religion at all--that is, taught about God as a real, powerful entity as opposed to "Jewish people believe God is X Y and Z and did A B and C," encouraged or required prayer, etc., I would not be okay with it. We are firm atheists and I do not want my children being told that God exists and has power to work miracles in the world etc. by people who really believe that is true--at least not at this age. I think it's honestly confusing for kids to hear something like that when they are small and still learning to distinguish fantasy from reality. When they are older of course they will be exposed to these ideas, and I won't stop them from going to church with a friend, etc. But to me that's very different from deliberately and consistently exposing them to ideas that directly contradict our family's beliefs, especially when they are too young to have the context to decide for themselves what they think is true.
This is a good point and something to consider. My opinion, coming from someone raising her children Catholic and with a belief in God in general I think is understandably different than yours where you are raising you children without that belief. For me it's a matter of different faiths, but still that core belief. I think this difference makes more sense and is less confusing than for a child raised at home without the idea of God at all but then spends so much time at school learning about it.
I hope that makes sense.
I agree. I actually had a line at the end of my post that said that I think I would more strongly consider it if I was religious but not Jewish, but I deleted it because I have been an atheist for so long I feel like I can't really be sure what I would do if I were religious. I don't want to put myself in the shoes of a religious person, because the idea of God is clearly not important in my life and I feel like I have a hard time understanding in any kind of meaningful way what it means to other people. But on the surface, I feel like I would have an easier time explaining that Christians and Jews believe in the same God but with a few key differences then I would explaining that Jewish people believe in God but atheists don't, and why. It is a tough thing to explain to a young child, especially one young enough to wholeheartedly believe in anything they hear from a person in a position of authority, and especially when they have two people in positions of authority (I.e. A parent and a teacher) who are delivering different messages.
Post by bunnymendelbaum on Mar 10, 2015 16:13:53 GMT -5
My DH and I dealing with this too. We were both raised Catholic but have not been practicing for 20-25yrs. I have big issues with the church. ETA: I consider myself agnostic. We area moving to an area where private school will likely be our only option. There is a great, affordable catholic school but the curriculum is sort of old school and includes 45 mins of religion class per day. The priest is said to be progressive, but the school is led by an old school, strict nun. If we can't afford the Friends school, we might have to do the Catholic. It really bums me out that my DDs will be taught things I need to "unteach". (Specifically, that she is limited by her gender. Females are not allowed in decision making roles in the church.) So for us, it is less an issue of being different, but more an issue of beliefs I don't agree with.
Yes, we are doing this. I am Episcopalian, DS is Buddhist. He very much wanted DS to attend a secular preschool. However, the only secular preschool in our area (a Montessori) is WAY OUT of our budget. So that only left us with Christian schools. We chose (and luckily got into) the best preschool in the area, which happens to be Episcopalian by coincidence. They accept children of any denomination but I think it's 80% Christian of some denomination. DH is not happy that DS will be attending chapel every day. But we're hoping to balance that out by DH taking him to his Buddhist temple once a month so DS can learn that different people have different beliefs. That Christianity is just one belief of many. Hopefully that works out.
Post by ilikedonuts on Mar 10, 2015 16:21:18 GMT -5
25% Jewish/Hebrew related is what will make me say no. It just seems like a huge portion of the cirriculum. I went to Catholic school and we had a few Jewish kids in each grade, but other than our required religion class and a monthly mass, the curriculum was not really Catholic focused.
Post by hbomdiggity on Mar 10, 2015 16:26:53 GMT -5
I was raised catholic and attended catholic schools which also had non Catholics, maybe 10%.
Even as a kid I did think it would have been a little weird/hard for the non Catholics to deal with the required religion class. We had to recite prayers, tested, etc. the non Catholics had to attend class and mass, although they did not do readings or alter boy stuff, and received a grade for the class. I'm pretty sure the teachers went easy on them. But I don't recall my classmates having issues with it.
This is a good point and something to consider. My opinion, coming from someone raising her children Catholic and with a belief in God in general I think is understandably different than yours where you are raising you children without that belief. For me it's a matter of different faiths, but still that core belief. I think this difference makes more sense and is less confusing than for a child raised at home without the idea of God at all but then spends so much time at school learning about it.
I hope that makes sense.
I agree. I actually had a line at the end of my post that said that I think I would more strongly consider it if I was religious but not Jewish, but I deleted it because I have been an atheist for so long I feel like I can't really be sure what I would do if I were religious. I don't want to put myself in the shoes of a religious person, because the idea of God is clearly not important in my life and I feel like I have a hard time understanding in any kind of meaningful way what it means to other people. But on the surface, I feel like I would have an easier time explaining that Christians and Jews believe in the same God but with a few key differences then I would explaining that Jewish people believe in God but atheists don't, and why. It is a tough thing to explain to a young child, especially one young enough to wholeheartedly believe in anything they hear from a person in a position of authority, and especially when they have two people in positions of authority (I.e. A parent and a teacher) who are delivering different messages.
This is where I am (albeit I come out on a different side in terms of beliefs). I think that sending your kids to a school of a different faith can work well if the school is open to all, non-judgmental, and non-evangelical (i.e., not particularly interested in converting your kid) AND you believe in God but don't really buy into the idea that there is only one true path, you are nominally or culturally religious, or you are an ambivalent agnostic type who doesn't mind (or wants) your kid exposed to religion. I would imagine that it doesn't work so well if you are committed to raising your children without religion or committed to raising them in another religion that has fairly strict beliefs that are at odds with the school's.
Our child would never go to religious school, period. And we attend church and are Christians. Mixing faith and school just isn't something I want for my kids.
Post by karinothing on Mar 10, 2015 18:00:04 GMT -5
I am not entirely opposed but would worry 25% of education being religious studies would mean other areas are getting underserved. I also would make sure you are ready to handle your young kid wanting to convert.
Post by winecheery on Mar 10, 2015 18:17:42 GMT -5
My gut says no. I probably would not, based on the circumstances you describe. I feel like it would become confusing if the religious beliefs are not your own, and there is that much religion in the school. Wearing a kippah everyday? That's a big part of respect and a sign of the devout in Jewish culture, right? I mean, idk. It's so, so interesting to me to learn about other people's cultures and beliefs. I find it fascinating. But I see a difference in learning about them vs learning them as if they were my beliefs too. Which is implied, I believe.
I know that's not ALL he'd be learning, but I'd have issues in a Catholic or Christian school setting too. Basically, I want to be the one to initially introduce religious concepts to my kid, I think.
Post by cricketwife on Mar 10, 2015 18:19:39 GMT -5
I would not have a problem with a Jewish or catholic school as they are close enough to my beliefs. For the rest, let me say I am white, so I cannot speak from experience, but observation only. I have spent my career in private schools where the majority (in various ratios) is white, and I have seen students of color not do well when they are "different" in several ways. It is the compounding nature of his "differentness" in this environment that I worry could be hard. It sound like he would be in the minority racially, religiously, and socio-economically ( though I am unclear on this one as it sounds like you can afford another $$$$ school). I think it could be hard depending on what this community is like. The fact that you work there could compensate in some ways as he may enter a social network of "faculty kids." I would seriously consider all those things, and would probably try it out and see how it goes.
Post by barefootcontessa on Mar 10, 2015 18:27:38 GMT -5
I would have to know more about the Jewish curriculum but as a Christian I would consider it since Judaism is the foundation of Christianity. If it was a Buddist or some other religion then no I would not.
Post by karinothing on Mar 10, 2015 18:28:06 GMT -5
I think some people may be underestimating the difficulty that may come with teaching a kid one thing in school and another at home. Primary education is one of the main socialization/indoctrination tools we have in this country. We teach kids to respect their teachers because their teachers are (hopefully) these amazing speakers of knowledge and truth. They will teach them the truth in the world, whether it is 1+1= 2, how to spell a word the right way, or no matter how many times you nix baking soda and vinegar it will always foam. I think expecting a kid to accept that teachers know the truth and teach the truth in all subjects except the one subject they spend 25% of their day learning is going to be a tough battle.
Sure you can come home and teach your kid that that part of class is just what some other folks believe, but you are going to be sending him to school with those other kids. The people he spends the majority of his day with will believe one thing and he will likely hang with them outside of school too. I think it is VERY hard for a young child to ignore that much indoctrination.
Now, all this means is that your kid may decide at an early age that his beliefs are going to be different than yours. I think that is 100% fine if you are okay with it, but if you aren't. I think that is something to give some serious thought to before enrolling the child in the school.
Post by spankswife on Mar 10, 2015 19:14:35 GMT -5
We are sending DD to. Jewish summer program bc it is excellent, and we arent Jewish. I say you go to the good school, regardless of religion.
I also feel like a lot of Judaism is more about culural practices and traditions then just religion itself, and I think it's nice to expose children to different things. I'm sure the basic morals and values they teach are parallel to non-denominational ones.
Plus it's super convenient bc you work there (ie drop off/pick up), and it's good MM. Sounds like win-win.
I send my kid to Quaker School (Friends), and I am Atheist. They have silent meeting and do not teach any specific beliefs though, other than the spices, and the general Quaker Values, which I have no problem with.
I went to school growing up where Jewish was the primary religion, > 50%. I felt excluded at times because everyone went to synagogue, camp, and Hebrew school together, and I did not. We had few spend the nights, since they had religious services on a different day from my family. Overall though, I really identify and respect the Jewish culture and values. I feel more "at home" in a Jewish family typically, than other types of cultures.
I think it largely depends on your comfort level with your child being immersed in another culture/religion. I know quite a few Christians who have converted to the Jewish faith as adults. I would have no problem with my child going to a Jewish school from an educational standpoint, but how much your child would be included could be an issue depending on how liberal or Orthodox the school is, and the families that go there.
The school is pluralistic with most families falling the conservative category.
This might be my only hesitation, the families being majority conservative more so due to his age than anything else. It may be confusing since conservative might be more stringent in its teachings than a reformed school might be. This may be difficult for a young kid to reconcile.
I say that because I went to a Catholic high school and I was raised with no organized religion. My mother is a non practicing Catholic and my dad a non practicing Jew. I was fine and comfortable from day 1. There were maybe 2-3 other nonchristians but the school was liberal and all but 1 mass each year were optional. I got a good education and learned a bit about organized religion I may not have otherwise.
1) there's no problem with explaining that his religion is different than the other kids'. That's what my family did for me growing up as a Jew.
2) 25% of the curriculum is the Old Testament. If you're religious at all, it's important to know that too.
3) i don't have the $25,000 to spend.
4)And I would get to see my kid at work every day.
I don't have kids, but am Jewish and chiming in to emphasize the second item.
Judaism is based on the Old Testament. My guess is that at a young age they are learning many of the same foundations as Christian schools. The book is so important to so many people that having an understanding will benefit them in life, even if they don't believe the same thing.
Also, even though I was raised Jewish, I no longer practice and consider myself an atheist. My guess is that there are many people on this board who also have had a change in their beliefs over time. Religious school now doesnt dictate future beliefs.
My biggest concern would be the lack of cultural diversity, honestly.
I think some people may be underestimating the difficulty that may come with teaching a kid one thing in school and another at home. Primary education is one of the main socialization/indoctrination tools we have in this country. We teach kids to respect their teachers because their teachers are (hopefully) these amazing speakers of knowledge and truth. They will teach them the truth in the world, whether it is 1+1= 2, how to spell a word the right way, or no matter how many times you nix baking soda and vinegar it will always foam. I think expecting a kid to accept that teachers know the truth and teach the truth in all subjects except the one subject they spend 25% of their day learning is going to be a tough battle.
Sure you can come home and teach your kid that that part of class is just what some other folks believe, but you are going to be sending him to school with those other kids. The people he spends the majority of his day with will believe one thing and he will likely hang with them outside of school too. I think it is VERY hard for a young child to ignore that much indoctrination.
This is where the type of religious school matters to me. I would obviously want to know more, but my guess is that that 25% of the day is spent learning Hebrew, learning about Jewish history and cultural traditions, and studying the Hebrew Bible (which is the most frequently referenced piece of literature in the history of the world, so not a bad thing for anyone to know from the standpoint of cultural literacy). Despite not being Jewish, I would be happy for my kids to know all of that. I doubt there is much emphasis on indoctrination of belief--that just doesn't seem to be a focus of Judaism IME (or at least non-Orthodox Judaism). I get why a parent would want to avoid it if they do not want their kids exposed to religion period, and I get wanting to ensure that that 25% doesn't detract from the rest of the academic curriculum. But I really don't think most Christian kids would have that much trouble understanding that there are Jewish people who celebrate their own holidays and have their own traditions. Plenty of kids grow up in mixed faith homes and manage just fine.
I would have far, far more concerns about sending a Jewish kid to an evangelical Christian school where there likely would be some significant indoctrination going on, up to and including telling non-believers that they are going to hell. That, clearly, is problematic.
Most of my girls' religious education is value based at this age. Example: Purim. Stand up for what you believe. Don't dance naked. Etc. Tu b'shevat. Trees are good. Passover. Slavery is bad. I would so do it. Obv I'm jewish, but even if i weren't!
Most of my girls' religious education is value based at this age. Example: Purim. Stand up for what you believe. Don't dance naked. Etc. Tu b'shevat. Trees are good. Passover. Slavery is bad. I would so do it. Obv I'm jewish, but even if i weren't!
I miss tu b'shevat! I went to a private Jewish school and this is basically it lol. I am no longer a practicing Jew. I also went to YMCA camp as a kid, and I'm not Christian.
The combination of there being so few non-Jewish students and 25% of the academics being focused on Jewish Studies and Hebrew would lead me to send my children elsewhere.
I teach at a Quaker school and my kids go there. We are not Quaker, but there is literally nothing offensive about Quakers. They go to Meeting for Worship every week, but I don't care that they are learning Quakerism.
I would feel differently if they went to a Catholic school.
There are some families at my school for whom it is hard sometimes, because the school is both very liberal and very outspoken in its social justice, and they are socially conservative. I think it's a weird choice, because it's no secret what the school stands for.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I was sent to Catholic school for 9 years and was one of the less than 10 non Catholic kids in a school of 600 kids. Talk about minority. I got plenty made fun of because I was different. It was hugely annoying to "not belong" but my parents didn't really care about my social experiences at school. They only cared if I was learning and how was my penmanship.
I'm not even Christian. From a young age I always unferstood that there were many major religions in the world. I couldn't say the same about my Catholic school classmates at the time, they definitely didn't understand why I was different. I worry about the same sense of "our way is THE way" at the Jewish school.
As an adult it has made no impact on my life. I wound up at a Catholic college and I remember thinking "gee all these Catholic kids here follow like zero of the 10 commandments. " which of course I had all the commandments memorized. Most of those folks are all no longer practicing Catholics.
Post by sporklemotion on Mar 11, 2015 5:13:37 GMT -5
Because you work there and know the school, it might be OK, but I would lean away from it for the reasons that @dontcallmeshirley1 mentioned. I am Jewish and went to a Hebrew day school through 8th grade, and if this school,is like mine, I think it would be uncomfortable to be there as a non-Jew. We were less observant than many families there (we didn't strictly observe Shabbat, didn't keep Kosher), and a lot of the curriculum was about the practices and traditions that we should be observing. And there are a lot of practices and traditions. I remember faking my food journal when we learned about nutrition so that it wouldn't be so obvious that we mixed milk and meat, etc. most of the issues came from other kids, not teachers, because the kids weren't really sensitive to difference. And, quite frankly, the school didn't really foster acceptance of people who, like me, were "breaking" the rules. It may have been different had I not been Jewish, and I was a particularly sensitive kid, but it is something that has made me less interested in pursuing a Jewish education for my DD. if this school is more liberal or secular than mine, it would probably be fine. I may have just gone to a crappy school. I would just try to learn more about the approach of the school.
What happens when your kid talks about Xmas and Easter? If you are at all religious, will he start telling the other kids about Jesus? I don't know if the above is a problem one way or the other - just putting it out there. I think I would send my kid but I am not religious but would like her to know the stories (Noah, Adam and Eve)