I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that this doctor is not in favor of breastfeeding, and probably suggests formula to fill them up longer.
And rice cereal in the bottle (which I know is actually a legitimate way to help babies with reflux, but also comes up re: STTN for non-reflux babies).
This is a great way to end up in the hospital with a baby who is FTT. And forget about it if you are EBF, you would rapidly lose your supply if you weren't pumping overnight.
This is madness
Shudder. I can't imagine trying to pump to make up for those lost feeds. It took me an hour to produce an ounce or two. I don't even want to think about how many times I would have to wake up to pump and for how long to make up for one or two night time feeds.
I don't get parents that start letting so-called guidelines like this override their common sense or natural instincts. What do you think is best for your child and when? I have two kids and both were and are extremely different, one I co-slept with for a long time and the other preferred his crib from a very early age. Both were sleep-trained at a time that felt right for them - hint: neither of them were 8 weeks old.
I don't get parents that start letting so-called guidelines like this override their common sense or natural instincts. What do you think is best for your child and when? I have two kids and both were and are extremely different, one I co-slept with for a long time and the other preferred his crib from a very early age. Both were sleep-trained at a time that felt right for them - hint: neither of them were 8 weeks old.
Sleep deprivation is no joke, man. It's one thing to just "know" that babies wake up a lot, but it's another to be immersed in it and wonder what the hell you got yourself into.
Having said that, the first few months are all about survival. Instead of sleep-training, you figure out the best (safe) way you and your kid can get some sleep. If absolutely nothing safe works, you alternate shifts with your partner and then you ride it out and survive on venti lattes at Starbucks.
After having two kids, my current hypothesis is that it has more to do with baby's size then age. DD was super tiny (4.5 lbs when she was born), and continuously in the 10th percentile for the first year. I really do think that her size contributed to needing a little bit longer to get rid of night feeds. DS was tiny, but not nearly as small (20-30th percentile in the first year, and he was ready to drop those night time feeds much sooner. Friends with bigger babies have seemed to have an easier time dropping those night time wake-ups.
It's funny that you say that. My oldest was average sized as an infant and slept well. My other two were ginormous and I attributed their huge size and amazing growth to being hungry more often and not sleeping lol! Like, if I were growing that fast I'd need to keep eating constantly too (both are still 95th percentile or more for height and 90th for weight; my middle hasn't been on the height charts in over a year). I wonder if it's the two ends of the spectrum...
I don't get parents that start letting so-called guidelines like this override their common sense or natural instincts. What do you think is best for your child and when? I have two kids and both were and are extremely different, one I co-slept with for a long time and the other preferred his crib from a very early age. Both were sleep-trained at a time that felt right for them - hint: neither of them were 8 weeks old.
Sleep deprivation is no joke, man. It's one thing to just "know" that babies wake up a lot, but it's another to be immersed in it and wonder what the hell you got yourself into.
Having said that, the first few months are all about survival. Instead of sleep-training, you figure out the best (safe) way you and your kid can get some sleep. If absolutely nothing safe works, you alternate shifts with your partner and then you ride it out and survive on venti lattes at Starbucks.
Add in a healthy dose of religious fervor (ie, Babywise) that you are going to have a hell child running roughshod all over if you if you dont TRAIN THEM TO BEND TO YOUR WILL FROM BIRTH to that sleep deprivation and it's no wonder people go for it.
Parenting isn't a 12 hour a day job. Not with an 8 week old, and not with my almost 4 year old. Honestly, I think it's abuse to leave a newborn to cry all night alone.
ETA: And it's not fucking brave to neglect your newborn. So no, I don't have "the guts".
My fat baby slept worse than my skinny one. Fatty didn't sleep through the night until 9 months, and that was only once. He didn't do it regularly until 16 or 17 months. Little fucker.
I'm not opposed to sleep training either. But the only one I could stomach was the no tears sleep shuffle method. And she's three and I'm still shuffling! Lol. (For the record the shuffle should have been complete after 2 weeks, not 2 years.....lol!) The method helped me get her to sleep w/out nursing/rocking or handholding but she still wants me in her room until she falls asleep and she meanders into our bed everynight between 3-5. If we had sleep trained for real we probably wouldn't have these issues. Oh well.
I'm not opposed to sleep training either. But the only one I could stomach was the no tears sleep shuffle method. And she's three and I'm still shuffling! Lol. (For the record the shuffle should have been complete after 2 weeks, not 2 years.....lol!) The method helped me get her to sleep w/out nursing/rocking or handholding but she still wants me in her room until she falls asleep and she meanders into our bed everynight between 3-5. If we had sleep trained for real we probably wouldn't have these issues. Oh well.
We never sleep trained and 2/3 of our kids did the same. The 5.5 year old has been putting herself to bed without us waiting in the room for the past year or so and other than when she has a bad dream we haven't heard from her overnight in longer than that! So there's hope!
I keep reminding myself as I sit there waiting for the 2 year old to go to sleep that this, too, shall pass and that eventually I'll truly miss the snuggles. And I will say that having a smart phone (which we didn't in the days we were waiting for the 5 year old) has made it a lot easier lol!
After having two kids, my current hypothesis is that it has more to do with baby's size then age. DD was super tiny (4.5 lbs when she was born), and continuously in the 10th percentile for the first year. I really do think that her size contributed to needing a little bit longer to get rid of night feeds. DS was tiny, but not nearly as small (20-30th percentile in the first year, and he was ready to drop those night time feeds much sooner. Friends with bigger babies have seemed to have an easier time dropping those night time wake-ups.
It's funny that you say that. My oldest was average sized as an infant and slept well. My other two were ginormous and I attributed their huge size and amazing growth to being hungry more often and not sleeping lol! Like, if I were growing that fast I'd need to keep eating constantly too (both are still 95th percentile or more for height and 90th for weight; my middle hasn't been on the height charts in over a year). I wonder if it's the two ends of the spectrum...
Jesus. No, this is ridiculous. And letting a baby cry for that long? At that stage of development they have no concept of anything except that they are alone and they want attention. People want everything to be nice and convenient and by the book, but raising a baby is hard and messy and exhausting. It wasn't until only within the past century and within our culture that this notion that babies should be sleeping alone and for long stretches developed. For the majority of human history and around the world babies were/are just thrown into the room with the rest of the family.
I'm not opposed to sleep training either. But the only one I could stomach was the no tears sleep shuffle method. And she's three and I'm still shuffling! Lol. (For the record the shuffle should have been complete after 2 weeks, not 2 years.....lol!) The method helped me get her to sleep w/out nursing/rocking or handholding but she still wants me in her room until she falls asleep and she meanders into our bed everynight between 3-5. If we had sleep trained for real we probably wouldn't have these issues. Oh well.
We never sleep trained and 2/3 of our kids did the same. The 5.5 year old has been putting herself to bed without us waiting in the room for the past year or so and other than when she has a bad dream we haven't heard from her overnight in longer than that! So there's hope!
I keep reminding myself as I sit there waiting for the 2 year old to go to sleep that this, too, shall pass and that eventually I'll truly miss the snuggles. And I will say that having a smart phone (which we didn't in the days we were waiting for the 5 year old) has made it a lot easier lol!
You are truly a saint with that sort of patience! By the age of two I was tossing my kid in her room and yelling "I love you, night night!" as I ran down the hall to my freedom and a glass of wine.
(I feel like the emoticon up there feels judgey, and it's not meant that way! I really am just amazed)
We never sleep trained and 2/3 of our kids did the same. The 5.5 year old has been putting herself to bed without us waiting in the room for the past year or so and other than when she has a bad dream we haven't heard from her overnight in longer than that! So there's hope!
I keep reminding myself as I sit there waiting for the 2 year old to go to sleep that this, too, shall pass and that eventually I'll truly miss the snuggles. And I will say that having a smart phone (which we didn't in the days we were waiting for the 5 year old) has made it a lot easier lol!
You are truly a saint with that sort of patience! By the age of two I was tossing my kid in her room and yelling "I love you, night night!" as I ran down the hall to my freedom and a glass of wine.
(I feel like the emoticon up there feels judgey, and it's not meant that way! I really am just amazed)
I can say without a doubt that the only thing that kept us going that long with the older one was our horrible insecurity when we lived in an apartment. Any time the kids were loud at all I was an absolute nervous wreck that we were bothering the neighbors, so I did whatever it took to keep her from crying.
With my son he will just leave his room and wander the house lol! And since I know that it's temporary I'm soaking up the time with my last baby, no question!
Jesus. No, this is ridiculous. And letting a baby cry for that long? At that stage of development they have no concept of anything except that they are alone and they want attention. People want everything to be nice and convenient and by the book, but raising a baby is hard and messy and exhausting. It wasn't until only within the past century and within our culture that this notion that babies should be sleeping alone and for long stretches developed. For the majority of human history and around the world babies were/are just thrown into the room with the rest of the family.
And when I say they need attention, I mean the developmentally healthy attention. I think new parents are overwhelmed with worries about doing the right thing for their kids, and then notion of spoiling a baby enters into it. Parents need to be taught that there is NO way to spoil an infant with affection. Think back to the psych 101 example of the baby monkey that was deprived of physical touch and didn't grow physically. It can't possibly be healthy for a baby to go that long without being touched or consoled. I call bullshit on the part about their being no research to indicate that it will harm a baby to be left alone that long.
heyjude & penguingrrl ... we're like you. My 8yo still likes us to lay down in his bed with him for a few minutes, and I gladly give that to him. My 4yo historically hasn't needed that ... but is a bit more into it now that he has a twin bed. I was trying not to make a habit of it, but now I sort of don't care. My husband fell asleep with the 4yo one night a week ago, and at first I was annoyed with him, because this kid is the one that doesn't need help falling asleep. So I told my husband I was mad at him for a few minutes, because you know this is going to make a habit, but then again, the kid is just so damn cute and sweet when he's getting to sleep that I really don't care. I'm in that "they're only young once" bubble right now.
I will say that sleep is the #1 reason that we only have 2 kids. I'm so, so, so glad that we don't have babies anymore. I'll take the sassy talk to being up 3x a night any day of the week.
I don't get parents that start letting so-called guidelines like this override their common sense or natural instincts. What do you think is best for your child and when? I have two kids and both were and are extremely different, one I co-slept with for a long time and the other preferred his crib from a very early age. Both were sleep-trained at a time that felt right for them - hint: neither of them were 8 weeks old.
Sleep deprivation is no joke, man. It's one thing to just "know" that babies wake up a lot, but it's another to be immersed in it and wonder what the hell you got yourself into.
Having said that, the first few months are all about survival. Instead of sleep-training, you figure out the best (safe) way you and your kid can get some sleep. If absolutely nothing safe works, you alternate shifts with your partner and then you ride it out and survive on venti lattes at Starbucks.
Very true, I was thinking as I typed that PPD can also play a role. It was more a general feeling of relief and increase in confidence I had (in my experience) when I stopped looking everything up or questioning myself and was more responsive to what they needed as individuals at each stage. Too much information can do a disservice for nervous, sleep deprived, PPD or any new parent.
heyjude & penguingrrl ... we're like you. My 8yo still likes us to lay down in his bed with him for a few minutes, and I gladly give that to him. My 4yo historically hasn't needed that ... but is a bit more into it now that he has a twin bed. I was trying not to make a habit of it, but now I sort of don't care. My husband fell asleep with the 4yo one night a week ago, and at first I was annoyed with him, because this kid is the one that doesn't need help falling asleep. So I told my husband I was mad at him for a few minutes, because you know this is going to make a habit, but then again, the kid is just so damn cute and sweet when he's getting to sleep that I really don't care. I'm in that "they're only young once" bubble right now.
I will say that sleep is the #1 reason that we only have 2 kids. I'm so, so, so glad that we don't have babies anymore. I'll take the sassy talk to being up 3x a night any day of the week.
My daughter, who is 7, recently started asking that I give her "special snuggles" when she lies down for bed. I grumble inside about it, because at that point after reading to the kids I am so ready to be onto the next thing, but I have found that that time is really, really special. It's when she starts opening up about about miscellaneous things that happened in her day, and occasionally she lightly unloads a few things mentally. Knowing where she is developmentally, I want to have that with her as she heads into the tween and teen years, so I am trying to make a point of not dismissing that ritual.
Post by earlgreyhot on Mar 27, 2015 10:01:33 GMT -5
This rubs me all kinds of wrong.
I hate the term "sleep-training" b/c I don't buy that it's some kind of skill that has to be learned. But I am very much in the camp of knowing your baby and doing what works for him or her as well as the rest of the family. Sometimes that is cosleeping (which worked well for my first) and sometimes it means CIO (my second will fight sleep some nights, and rocking and soothing are too stimulating. You can tell by her cries that she is working it out..).
There are certainly babies who are ready for this early on, but probably not the majority. I have compassion for families in which the sleep deprivation is taking it's toll, but there has to be better options. A night nanny? A family friend to come over and hold the baby while parents catch up on sleep.
I think it's terrible that a doctor would try to shame parents into letting their NEWBORN cry for hours. "You don't have the guts?" WTAF? I was ecstatic when my 7 week old starting STTN but it was for 7 hours, which counts as STTN at that age. Granted it was always between the hours of 6 and 2 a.m. so I had to start going to bed at that time myself so I could also sleep 7 hours but at least I know neither of us suffered any psychological trauma because of it.
I really blame our culture of "get back to work, mom and dad (also you're on your own)" for this sleep training phenomenon and the idea that infants should be sleeping through the night almost immediately because that's what's most convenient for mom and dad.
We have this idea that babies are just objects to be molded and fit to our schedules and convenience, and that they need to fit into the 'right' schedule ASAP. We seem to think that childbirth and having a baby are mere inconveniences that can be easily handled alone in a matter of days, then mom needs to be back to work, back to a regular schedule, back to taking care of her house, back to exercising, back in shape, back and ready for sex by the next week or so. And baby can be easily slotted off to daycare during the day so mom and dad can work, then trained to sleep all night so mom and dad can be productive at work the next day.
It's not natural, it's not normal, and it's not healthy. Our attitude needs to change.
I really blame our culture of "get back to work, mom and dad (also you're on your own)" for this sleep training phenomenon and the idea that infants should be sleeping through the night almost immediately because that's what's most convenient for mom and dad.
We have this idea that babies are just objects to be molded and fit to our schedules and convenience, and that they need to fit into the 'right' schedule ASAP. We seem to think that childbirth and having a baby are mere inconveniences that can be easily handled alone in a matter of days, then mom needs to be back to work, back to a regular schedule, back to taking care of her house, back to exercising, back in shape, back and ready for sex by the next week or so. And baby can be easily slotted off to daycare during the day so mom and dad can work, then trained to sleep all night so mom and dad can be productive at work the next day.
It's not natural, it's not normal, and it's not healthy. Our attitude needs to change.
I wonder if part of this is due to pg women having to fight against being otherized. We swung the pendulum too much to the other side.
FWIW, I'm not really opposed to sleep training in general. I'm just not about to pretend that at 8 weeks, I really can discern what my kid needs at 2am based solely on their cry. And nine times out of ten, when an 8 week old baby is crying, it's because they are hungry. At 15 months, I know you aren't starving in the middle of the night. Stop playing with me and let me sleep, ya little chump.
But at 8 weeks, if you cry, mommy's gonna fix it, poor wittle nublet, I bet you're starving. Or maybe you have gas. Or maybe you have a wet diaper. Or maybe you hate me. Did I break my baby? WHY ARE YOU STILL CRYING??? Omg, why did I ever think I was equipped to be someone's parent?
At 8 weeks, you are still firmly in if it cries, it's probably hungry, try to feed it mode.
I stopped here. My kid is 5 weeks old and that's pretty much my thought process.
Also. Fuck no to this. Im currently doing a training about infant mental health. And no. Just no. This is an awful message to send to your newborn.