high schooler w/disabilities & lettermans jacket...discuss

[NandaB]

m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/sports/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/special-needs-student-told-he-can-t-wear-varsity-letter-jacket-162953378.html?orig_host_hdr=sports.yahoo.com&.intl=us&.lang=en-US

I saw this on the fb of one of my friends from here, and I actually disagree with 2 people I usually agree with, so I thought it would be interesting to discuss. Especially given that many of us have personal experiences/relationships that make this affect us more directly. I will comment in another post when I get this baby burped and settled.



**I hate HATE the term "special needs student" staap it. Its lame and condescending. And like, The opposite of people first language.

[rosesandpetals]

We didn't have this at my hs. What is the point of a varsity letter? Why would someone care which jacket another student wore? Maybe I am missing something here.

[momin2013]

We also didn't have this at my high school, but I'm taking a guess that having a jacket with a letter is an important thing.

So if a parent actually made this comment, shame on them, since this will probably end up with the jacket/letter getting taken away from this kid for whom it's probably a really big deal.

[gwapes]

The parent that reported it is a dick.

The principle that decided not to allow athletes with sn their own letters is a dick. Either let them wear it, or give them their own.

[penguingrrl]

Anyone objecting to a student with special needs wearing a letter jacket is an asshole, full stop. We had letters and I earned them every year for band, but I still don't really get the significance of them I guess. I never had a jacket or anything (they cost a fortune and our school colors were fug), but I can't see why anyone would object to this student, who seems to contribute meaningfully to the team, getting it.

And yeah, the use of "special needs student" instead of student with special needs pisses me off too.

[NandaB]

Ok, first the point us not whether your school did this or not, or if you had a letter jacket or not. The point is that at THIS school students earn a letter for participating in a varsity sport. (at my HS you could also letter in band, color guard and drama, dont know about this school though) you must participate in the varsity sport to "earn" the letter. A student who did not play a varsity sport was wearing a varsity letter, and some shitty busybody parent complained. BUT, since this student has disabilities people are saying he should get to wear the jacket with the letter he didn't "earn".

I disagree. First, that parent is shitty, because really, who gives a fuck. And the principal was for sure kind of a dick about it (did they NEED to take the kids jacker away ffs??!). BUT giving this kid a letter just for having autism is yucky to me. The varsity team is for the best athletes. Plenty of kids w/out special needs dont get a varsity letter. Plenty of kids w/out disabilities try really really hard and never make the varsity team.

I want my son to be treated with respect. I want him to have an enjoyable experience in school. I want him to excel academically and participate in sports and other extracurricular activities. I want him to be treated fairly by his peers and school employees. I don't want him to get a pity letter just because he has Down syndrome.

[rosesandpetals]

I don't understand what the letters are for, that was my point a bout my school not doing it. You get a letter for being on a specific team? So I don't understand why someone would get a letter if they're not on that team. Just get a different letter/jacket for the team he's on.

But also, what parent cares enough to complain? And unless it says in the handbook that you have to "earn" the jacket or whatever, I'd be pissed they took it away from him. If they're just for sale then he can have one if he wants.

[miniroller]

Mar 27, 2015 16:20:43 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Anyone objecting to a student with special needs wearing a letter jacket is an insecure, immature, pathetic, attention-hungry asshole with too much time on their hands, full stop.

Sorry on the app, so couldn't bold or italicize, but just detailed to get my feelings a bit more clarified.
ETA: And SORRY! Thought I was on ML, kicks pebbles @ app.

[NandaB]

I agree that taking away his jacket was inappropriate, but that if something is meant to be earned by gaining a position on a varsity level team or organization (like marching band) than giving one to a student with a disability just because he has a disability, and not related to any participation on the varsity team in question is not treating the student fairly or with respect. IMO that's treating him with pity.

[gwapes]

But he did play. Just not on the standard varsity team. And the coach refused to allow letters for that team. So, I don't see the pity aspect, fully. I'm sure it plays a part, but, again, he played. It's not like he doesn't have any association with the sport at all.

[amynumbers]

Honestly, I can't imagine giving that many fucks about a letter jacket. The fact that anyone does says to me that the school needs to re-evaluate its culture.

Obviously the child's parents were ok with it and didn't consider it pity. To me, that is where the discussion ends.

[momin2013]

Mar 27, 2015 16:57:12 GMT -5 NandaB said:

I agree that taking away his jacket was inappropriate, but that if something is meant to be earned by gaining a position on a varsity level team or organization (like marching band) than giving one to a student with a disability just because he has a disability, and not related to any participation on the varsity team in question is not treating the student fairly or with respect. IMO that's treating him with pity.

This is a good point. I think all students should be able to attain "awards" (if that's what a letter is considered) for similar levels of success in whatever they are participating in. In this case, therefore, I think it would be fair for there to be an alternate, but equal award for students in this scenario, such as a letter, just a different version of the ones the varsity kids can obtain.

Good examples would be the Special Olympics or Paralympics; differently abled people participating in games similar to the Olympics win alternate, but equal awards.

[cabbagecabbage]

If these letters of so damned special, how'd his family get it for him? Whatever their policy or whatever is best in the end, they handled this like pure dicks. I don't have a strong opinion on the final ruling but the way this was handled is absolute crap.

[Kcthepouchh8r]

Mar 27, 2015 17:16:48 GMT -5 amynumbers said:

Honestly, I can't imagine giving that many fucks about a letter jacket. The fact that anyone does says to me that the school needs to re-evaluate its culture.

Obviously the child's parents were ok with it and didn't consider it pity. To me, that is where the discussion ends.

Yup.

I do agree with nanda to an extent. I don't want my kid given shit she didn't earn because she has autism. If that varsity letter is that important to only be given to those who make varsity any parent shouldn't be able to buy it.

[NandaB]

Mar 27, 2015 17:30:42 GMT -5 Kcthepouchh8r said:

Mar 27, 2015 17:16:48 GMT -5 amynumbers said:

Honestly, I can't imagine giving that many fucks about a letter jacket. The fact that anyone does says to me that the school needs to re-evaluate its culture.

Obviously the child's parents were ok with it and didn't consider it pity. To me, that is where the discussion ends.

Yup.

I do agree with nanda to an extent. I don't want my kid given shit she didn't earn because she has autism. If that varsity letter is that important to only be given to those who make varsity any parent shouldn't be able to buy it.

Yea the fact that she could just buy it is weird. Amy- I guess you're right. I can't speak for other parents, and I seem to be the minority, but the rule can't be "you have to play on a varsity team to earn the letter unless you have a disability and are a member of a extracurricular club that plays the same sport and you're mom is cool with it"

[andrewsgal]

Mar 27, 2015 16:57:12 GMT -5 NandaB said:

I agree that taking away his jacket was inappropriate, but that if something is meant to be earned by gaining a position on a varsity level team or organization (like marching band) than giving one to a student with a disability just because he has a disability, and not related to any participation on the varsity team in question is not treating the student fairly or with respect. IMO that's treating him with pity.

But he does play a sport. He is on a special Olympics team. He is every bit an athlete as anyone at that school. It's not a pitty letter he earned it. He also doesn't get grades either so he shouldn't graduate?

[NandaB]

Mar 27, 2015 18:08:52 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Mar 27, 2015 16:57:12 GMT -5 NandaB said:

I agree that taking away his jacket was inappropriate, but that if something is meant to be earned by gaining a position on a varsity level team or organization (like marching band) than giving one to a student with a disability just because he has a disability, and not related to any participation on the varsity team in question is not treating the student fairly or with respect. IMO that's treating him with pity.

But he does play a sport. He is on a special Olympics team. He is every bit an athlete as anyone at that school. It's not a pitty letter he earned it. He also doesn't get grades either so he shouldn't graduate?

Unless there is more info in a diff article I don't think its special olympics, its just an extra curricular team. Like an after school club it seemed like from the article.

I have cousins who do not have disability who play on fancy traveling baseball teams. That doesn't mean they should get a Hs baseball varsity letter.

I feel like this is different from academics because he is likely working towards iep goals at a level other than the grade level standard. Plus, at least in CA he wouldn't get a diploma, just a "cert of completion" because he us presumably unable to complete the high school exit exam.

[andrewsgal]

Mar 27, 2015 18:13:44 GMT -5 NandaB said:

Mar 27, 2015 18:08:52 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

But he does play a sport. He is on a special Olympics team. He is every bit an athlete as anyone at that school. It's not a pitty letter he earned it. He also doesn't get grades either so he shouldn't graduate?

Unless there is more info in a diff article I don't think its special olympics, its just an extra curricular team. Like an after school club it seemed like from the article.

I have cousins who do not have disability who play on fancy traveling baseball teams. That doesn't mean they should get a Hs baseball varsity letter.

I feel like this is different from academics because he is likely working towards iep goals at a level other than the grade level standard. Plus, at least in CA he wouldn't get a diploma, just a "cert of completion" because he us presumably unable to complete the high school exit exam.

I took it more as a special Olympic type of team. Would it make a difference?

So it's fine he is working toward IEP goals on his level but not playing a sport on his level? Let's be honest he is never going to be able to play any type of varsity sport yet he can play on his level and I do believe he should get the letter jacket. It obviously means a lot to this kid.

We had letter jackets you had to buy them and the schools issued the letters which you still had to pay for. In our school you could also letter in academics.

IDK I think it's weird to say he could walk at graduation with an alternative diploma but he doesn't get a letter jacket for an alternative sport. This isn't a kid that could even play for a club team.

[NandaB]

Mar 27, 2015 18:19:10 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Mar 27, 2015 18:13:44 GMT -5 NandaB said:

Unless there is more info in a diff article I don't think its special olympics, its just an extra curricular team. Like an after school club it seemed like from the article.

I have cousins who do not have disability who play on fancy traveling baseball teams. That doesn't mean they should get a Hs baseball varsity letter.

I feel like this is different from academics because he is likely working towards iep goals at a level other than the grade level standard. Plus, at least in CA he wouldn't get a diploma, just a "cert of completion" because he us presumably unable to complete the high school exit exam.

I took it more as a special Olympic type of team. Would it make a difference?

So it's fine he is working toward IEP goals on his level but not playing a sport on his level? Let's be honest he is never going to be able to play any type of varsity sport yet he can play on his level and I do believe he should get the letter jacket. It obviously means a lot to this kid.

We had letter jackets you had to buy them and the schools issued the letters which you still had to pay for. In our school you could also letter in academics.

IDK I think it's weird to say he could walk at graduation with an alternative diploma but he doesn't get a letter jacket for an alternative sport. This isn't a kid that could even play for a club team.

Well I'm not saying that he can't have a letter jacket or letter in SOMETHING. Just that varsity letters are for members of the varsity teams. Its different than academics to me, but I'm currently unable to articulate why. Maybe because i believe (and the law says)every student deserves an appropriate education at their level, but I don't think every student deserves to play on any team they want. The varsity team us for the best athletes at the school. I was never on a varsity team, because I wasn't a very good athlete. Should I have gotten a letter just because since I was never going to be at that level?

[NandaB]

Also, it feels very weird being the kpouch for once

[amynumbers]

I say this as someone who is basically Sporty Spice.

My own personal opinion, and I realize it is a pipe dream, is that part of a public education should include access for all to sports. I give no shits if Johnny is an all state basketball player or rides the bench on a club team. If they make the commitment, they get the letter.

[thecheshirekat]

I don't understand how mom was able to just go out and purchase the letter. The jacket, sure, everyone can buy the jacket, but the letter itself should either be physically given out by the coaches or you should only be able to purchase it with the appropriate paperwork after your season on that varsity team or activity has concluded.

Ultimately, I don't think it's anything anyone should have raised a stink over, and I don't even think it matters if the student has special needs or not, but if the letter is as much of a big-ass deal as they're making it out to be, then yeah, the purchases should be controlled.

[polarbearfans]

Why cannot the special needs team have their own letter? At my school you could get letters for obtaining a certain level of participation in band and choir, but the letters had the words band/choir on them. That may settle the objectors down at bit. It doesn't need to say special needs team, but something differencing the team from the varsity. Being a varsity athlete is an accomplishment, and letters should not be available to anyone with cash to buy one.

[cabbagecabbage]

If someone is wearing their boyfriend/girlfriend's letter jacket, should school officials ask them to remove it?

I'm baffled. No one was confused "Wait, who's the team captain?? Him or him??"

[usm]

Mar 27, 2015 19:38:20 GMT -5 cabbagecabbage said:

If someone is wearing their boyfriend/girlfriend's letter jacket, should school officials ask them to remove it?

I'm baffled. No one was confused "Wait, who's the team captain?? Him or him??"

This is where I keep going. I think it is ridiculous that they are this worked up over a non varsity player wearing a letterman jacket, regardless of disability.

[arnegard]

So for us (and all schools I knew), you buy the jacket, the actual letter and any additional patches (first team all league 1995, etc) - but the actual softball, baseball, football patch that goes onto the letter is awarded to the athlete. I wouldn't give a flying fuck is anyone wore a jacket without the patch. Hell, kids got them for band, academics, as well as the football and basketball managers too.

Also embarrassed as hell that I used to live not far from this.  smh.

[jag01]

I feel sorry for the asshole that made such stink about someone having a letter on his jacket, because if they have nothing else to do but go around making other lives miserable, then they must have a pretty shitty existence. Second of all, that school sucks for not coming to the defence of the student. That letter probably meant the world to him, and to have it taken way would be quite heartbreaking. This story makes me sad for humanity.

[andrewsgal]

Mar 27, 2015 18:47:32 GMT -5 amynumbers said:

I say this as someone who is basically Sporty Spice.

My own personal opinion, and I realize it is a pipe dream, is that part of a public education should include access for all to sports. I give no shits if Johnny is an all state basketball player or rides the bench on a club team. If they make the commitment, they get the letter.

Yes! And I think it's beyond bizarre to say a child with special needs shouldn't get one because he didn't do something not even attainable to him.

I am also kind of surprised people are zomg varsity sports are so hard. Um I went to a super large competitive highschool and played varsity two sports. Trust me I was far from talented. There are 60 freaking kids on varsity football alone. It's not some great unique accomplishment.

[lexus]

Mar 28, 2015 13:03:19 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Mar 27, 2015 18:47:32 GMT -5 amynumbers said:

I say this as someone who is basically Sporty Spice.

My own personal opinion, and I realize it is a pipe dream, is that part of a public education should include access for all to sports. I give no shits if Johnny is an all state basketball player or rides the bench on a club team. If they make the commitment, they get the letter.

Yes! And I think it's beyond bizarre to say a child with special needs shouldn't get one because he didn't do something not even attainable to him.

I am also kind of surprised people are zomg varsity sports are so hard. Um I went to a super large competitive highschool and played varsity two sports. Trust me I was far from talented. There are 60 freaking kids on varsity football alone. It's not some great unique accomplishment.

Well, to be fair I think you have to usually have a certain amount of playing time. I don't think someone who sits on the bench in variety earns a letter. Like nanda said, here students who can't pass the exit exam or Other graduation requirements get a certificate of completion. Maybe that mentally colors my perspective. And it's not that I think this was handled appropriately but I see it as the athletic equivalent of honor roll or graduating with honors. I think having a separate award that these athletes with disabilities can earn would be fair.

[andrewsgal]

Mar 29, 2015 8:22:02 GMT -5 lexus said:

Mar 28, 2015 13:03:19 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Yes! And I think it's beyond bizarre to say a child with special needs shouldn't get one because he didn't do something not even attainable to him.

I am also kind of surprised people are zomg varsity sports are so hard. Um I went to a super large competitive highschool and played varsity two sports. Trust me I was far from talented. There are 60 freaking kids on varsity football alone. It's not some great unique accomplishment.

Well, to be fair I think you have to usually have a certain amount of playing time. I don't think someone who sits on the bench in variety earns a letter. Like nanda said, here students who can't pass the exit exam or Other graduation requirements get a certificate of completion. Maybe that mentally colors my perspective. And it's not that I think this was handled appropriately but I see it as the athletic equivalent of honor roll or graduating with honors. I think having a separate award that these athletes with disabilities can earn would be fair.

Nope a varsity letter is for varsity athletes and has nothing to do with playing time. If my BIL got one for sitting the bench then why can a kid who is actually actively playing?

And this his might be a newsflash but even with an alternative diploma kids still get to walk at graduation, maybe we should make them have their own ceremony I mean because they shouldn't be able to walk because they didn't really earn it an all, just like the letter. 

It it is kind of loltasic that people,think letter jackets and varsity letters are such a big deal, they just aren't hard to earn or rare.