Slut Shaming question

[Deleted]

A philosophical question for all you people who have listened to Usher sing "I don't mind" and maybe even those of you who haven't.

If working the pole don't make you a ho, then what exactly does it take these days? 

I'm pretty sure stripping is considered a ho activity. Someone call up Luda. I bet he knows.

Also, why is Usher singing *this* dirty now? Is he taking tips from Bey?

[mcmel]

I haven't heard the song.

I consider any kind of cheating as a skanky move. Either cheating on someone yourself or sleeping with someone who you know is committed to another person.

I don't automatically think of ho when I think of strippers or pole dancers.

[tiramisu]

My response has been "no shit Usher, it makes her a stripper, not a prostitute." Not saying there's never overlap. I'm irritated not just that Usher is singing that dirty now, but that shit like that is on the radio like it's no big deal. Yep, let's not censor the majority of singing about someone stripping for pin money but let's censor things in other songs like g-- damn (cutting out the whole phrase now). The moral high ground is very confusing these days.

[ringstrue]

If she's truly just dancing it makes her only a stripper. If she's giving grinding lap dances and/or private stuff that's different.

I'm mad about it too. Why is this on the pop station 15 times a day??

[thejackpot]

Dancing on a pole does not make you a hoe. Not the classiest behavior but not hoe behavior. R & B songs have a long history of putting questionable behavior to a melody. Rap always get the bad rap but I know what to expect when I am listening to it, r & b always surprises me. Usher has been singing "dirty" for a while.

[underwaterrhymes]

One of my good friends was a dancer for probably 10 years.

Her club was full nude but she never engaged in any other activities with the patrons. She also made a shit ton of money (something like $65,000 or $70,000 a year working just 20 hours a week) and was able to put herself through college. She quit briefly to work in a hotel at a boyfriend's request, but was only making $12 an hour and couldn't come close to competing with her dancer salary so she went back.

She teaches English as a foreign language now. She makes less, but she had no student loans because she was able to pay for school without getting any.

Knowing her and having met many of her dancer friends, I can't see dancing in and of itself as a "ho" activity. That being said, a lot of dancers do engage in sex and other activities with patrons outside of the club for money, gifts, or drugs, so it definitely walks a fine line.

[cookiemdough]

Ugh I hate that song.

I don't care that she is on the pole, I do care that he is all like "make that money money money" like he is her pimp.

[aurora]

I don't know the song but I think pole dancing makes you a stripper. Some women may go further. I never like labeling women as hos or sluts or similar since we live in a culture with such differing norms of male and female sexuality.

[ttt]

What is a ho, exactly? Someone who sells their sexuality? Or someone who is literally a prostitute?

[omgzombies]

I'm still trying to figure out why I should care about if a certain activity makes a woman a ho.  I've never worried whether men stripping makes them a... what's the male equivalent of ho?  Man whore??

To Urban Dictionary!!


Synonyms for man whore:  player, asshole, pimp, bitch, dick, jerk, skank, manslut, douchebag, gay  :^), man, cheater, loser, playa

Synonyms for ho:  slut, whore, bitch, skank, prostitute, hooker, tramp, pimp, cunt, girl, trick, slag


So... yeah.  Doesn't really seem to be a male equivalent.  

[cherryvalance]

Mar 29, 2015 9:17:30 GMT -5 omgzombies said:

I'm still trying to figure out why I should care about if a certain activity makes a woman a ho.  I've never worried whether men stripping makes them a... what's the male equivalent of ho?  Man whore??

To Urban Dictionary!!


Synonyms for man whore:  player, asshole, pimp, bitch, dick, jerk, skank, manslut, douchebag, gay  :^), man, cheater, loser, playa

Synonyms for ho:  slut, whore, bitch, skank, prostitute, hooker, tramp, pimp, cunt, girl, trick, slag


So... yeah.  Doesn't really seem to be a male equivalent.  

Not to mention the men purchasing sexuality. They're johns, if the woman is a prostitute, but for strippers they're just customers? She's a ho and he's just contributing to the economy?

[redwino]

Mar 29, 2015 8:39:16 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

Mar 29, 2015 6:49:26 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

I haven't heard it! But don't forget dirty songs "What's Your Fantasy?" And "S&M" have also blazed this trail of radio dirtiness.

And long before that F*****' You Tonight by Biggie and R. Kelly.



And the YingYang Twins' Whisper Song

shamefully, these are two of my favorites. With Biggie's song, I was was young so it was "cool" to know the words and sing along. Ying yang twins are my guilty pleasure. It's not a party till Ying yang is played at least twice. But I can't stand usher's current stuff and most of the r&b on the radio right now. It's just raunchy garbage right now. I know it's hypocritical.

[tiramisu]

UWR's story about her friend reminds me if post of my argument about the sexual objectification and commodification of women. What message does it seems that the way for a woman to make lots of money is to basically sell the viewing rights? To take her clothes off and dance for men's sexual viewing pleasure?

It's one of the many ways the message is sent that what is most important about us is our body, our appearance, and our ability to be pleasing to men. Which makes me fucking sick (angry too, in case you can't tell).

ETA: I'm not mad at UWR's friend or judging that. I'm mad at the society that okays this. I'm mad that most women I know have said that if they couldn't feed their child and has no other options, they'd get on the pole. I'm mad because I've never heard men have to make that kind of contingency plan.

[arterr0]

Like Wyclef said, "Just 'cause she dances go-go, it don't make her a ho, no"

[josieposy]

I have nothing to add to this discussion. Just:

[msmerymac]

Mar 29, 2015 14:25:14 GMT -5 arterr0 said:

Like Wyclef said, "Just 'cause she dances go-go, it don't make her a ho, no"

Way to take me back to college! See also: What's Your Fantasy. 

[ChillyMcFreeze]

Omg that Wyclef song was our church camp jam. I have many questions about my Christian education.

[miniroller]

Mar 29, 2015 15:43:14 GMT -5 ChillyMcFreeze said:

Omg that Wyclef song was our church camp jam. I have many questions about my Christian education.

Don't you hate the self-forced contemplation when 2 worlds collide like that?! I've totally had great memories become shaded by putting the details together, just like your example. Huh- maybe that wasn't so great...?
NO! Remain in the fuzzy dark for as long as possible!

[Deleted]

I am delighted that my thread was taken so seriously lol.

FWIW, prostitutes are always hos but not all hos are prostitutes.

[summer]

Mar 29, 2015 11:16:52 GMT -5 redwino said:

Mar 29, 2015 8:39:16 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

And long before that F*****' You Tonight by Biggie and R. Kelly.



And the YingYang Twins' Whisper Song

shamefully, these are two of my favorites. With Biggie's song, I was was young so it was "cool" to know the words and sing along. Ying yang twins are my guilty pleasure. It's not a party till Ying yang is played at least twice. But I can't stand usher's current stuff and most of the r&b on the radio right now. It's just raunchy garbage right now. I know it's hypocritical.

I can't lie, that Biggie song was my ish in college. 

[Deleted]

Also, I didn't mean to imply that R&B is newly dirty. I quoted a Ludacris song about hos in my OP.

I just meant that Usher was a little more hush hush about his dirty, hiding it a bit better in songs like Yeah. Instead, I had to listen to that dick sucking song all the damned time even when I tried to hide from it and now he's singing odes to pimping out his own personal stripper.

Can we go back to You Got It Bad?

[overture]

I would say stripping kind of makes you a ho, but, I guess I don't put the same value judgements on hoes that other people do?

It's not the designation of certain behavior as "slutty" that bothers me, it's the idea that slutty behavior diminishes a woman's worth.

[Deleted]

I informed my husband about this song just now. He was relieved to hear that Usher doesn't think he's a ho (his apartment had a pole in it during college, but he & his roomates were the only ones who ever danced on it). Lol

[Deleted]

Mar 29, 2015 17:58:22 GMT -5 overture said:

I would say stripping kind of makes you a ho, but, I guess I don't put the same value judgements on hoes that other people do?

It's not the designation of certain behavior as "slutty" that bothers me, it's the idea that slutty behavior diminishes a woman's worth.

I don't think there is a way to divorce the two. The very idea of designating behaviors as slutty devalues women 90% of the time.

Most people will say, well, I don't think that woman is a slut for wearing a short skirt. I think she's a slut for sleeping with a married man but then we don't have a good word in the English language for a married man who sleeps with other women and the vast majority of the time, that behavior doesn't follow a man the way it would the woman involved.

[overture]

Mar 29, 2015 11:22:52 GMT -5 tiramisu said:

I'm mad because I've never heard men have to make that kind of contingency plan.

I think the equivalent for men is the proverbial "ditch digging."

[ChillyMcFreeze]

Mar 29, 2015 16:36:05 GMT -5 miniroller said:

Mar 29, 2015 15:43:14 GMT -5 ChillyMcFreeze said:

Omg that Wyclef song was our church camp jam. I have many questions about my Christian education.

Don't you hate the self-forced contemplation when 2 worlds collide like that?! I've totally had great memories become shaded by putting the details together, just like your example. Huh- maybe that wasn't so great...?
NO! Remain in the fuzzy dark for as long as possible!

Well those memories are pretty positive. It's when I became a camp counselor and realized how much sex was had at church camp that the memories became a little jaded. Lol

[Deleted]

Tina turner 'private dancer. Dancer for money. Do what you want me to do' was from the 80s. I think it was on the radio. Maybe on oldies stations now.
I used to singalong as a kid. No clue what I was singing. O