AND another thing. I will never believe the myriad MLMers on my FB feed who claim they're making mortgage payments or taking $5k vacations off their MLM profits until they SHOW ME THE MONEY. Do a MLM for a year and then post an income and expense report. If everyone of my MLM friends did that, and it backed up their claims, I would change my tune. I haven't so far because the only data I've seen shows almost no one makes money after a year of doing a MLM. (And I don't mean making good money, I mean almost no one earns any profit.) Otherwise I will remain convinced that MLMs target non-business types who either don't understand that profit = revenues MINUS expenses, or do understand and choose to ignore it.
I will keep saying that if you're a talented enough salesperson that you're making $45k a year selling Jamberry or whatever, you could be working for a real company making $100k plus insurance and benefits. Or you could probably start your own real, actual business, one that sells a product people want and isn't dependent on you recruiting other hapless souls to sell crap.
In general I really hate MLM's, though I DO know a few women who are actually quite successfuk doing it. Two of them are with Arb.onne and have the whole white Mercedes thing going (anyone know how exactly that works?)
Another one does isa.genix.
But what bothers me about both of them is still how they try to hawk others to sell. It's not even about the product, it's recruiting others to sell.
In general I really hate MLM's, though I DO know a few women who are actually quite successfuk doing it. Two of them are with Arb.onne and have the whole white Mercedes thing going (anyone know how exactly that works?)
Another one does isa.genix.
But what bothers me about both of them is still how they try to hawk others to sell. It's not even about the product, it's recruiting others to sell.
I don't know about Arbonne, but I know with Nerium, you get the Lexus if you sell a certain amount BUT you only get to keep it if you continue selling that amount! Which is another scam, because you have to purchase or lease the car and they pay for it on a monthly basis. So, if you get the car and then fail to maintain sales levels after a few months, you're on the hook for all the remaining payments.
Idk, I feel conflicted. It is annoying when a friend or an acquaintance on FB reaches out to you for the purpose of selling something to you. But I think this writer makes some good points about women being pushed out of the work force. I didn't know the % of working women was the lowest it's been in 24 years. That is interesting and I hadn't thought about the MLM stuff in that light. I feel bad for the women I know who *really* want to be SAHMs and do the toddler music classes and story time at the library stuff etc. etc. during the work day but their husbands don't make enough for them to quit their day jobs. If selling this stuff is the only way to make SAH work financially...I mean, they must be successfully selling to someone, right, if they're making any money at all? Some people want this crap lol. I have a friend who sells Avon who often posts about how it allows her to SAH with her daughter. She's a former teacher. So she must be making some money from it.
I just say no thanks when it happens. Everyone I know has been gracious about it. No one has pressed me harder.
To me it feels like those who are successful are doing it at the expense of other women, though. Of course no one is forcing people to buy stuff, but let's be honest, many people buy solely out of guilt or obligation.
I also don't think Avon is nearly as annoying as the others. In my experience, the Avon reps will put a catalog in the breakroom at work and otherwise leave you alone.
What really pisses me off about this is that at least two of the MLMera who have showed up in my Facebook feed were teachers who decided to stay at home. And BONUS - they were music teachers, which means their skills and experience more easily transfer to flexible, part-time work! I am not maligning the work ethic of teachers - I was raised by one - but by the nature of the schedule, it is a more "family friendly" job than many others. These women were not pushed out of the workforce by big bad corporate America.
It slays me that these women walked away from a family friendly job and then when they decided they don't like being a single income family, they fell for this MLM crap. Both of these ladies could make actual money (and keep their skills up) by continuing to teach private lessons part-time. I also REALLY don't get it because surely they found teaching violin and flute to children and instilling a love of music more fulfilling than selling
I feel like this will sound snootier than I mean it, but I can at least understand someone with no skilled job experience giving this a try because the fewer skills you have, the harder it is to find a flexible job. So I can see the reasoning in trying it. But if you have a degree in music education and 8 years' experience teaching music, WHY would you not use your valuable skills instead of this garbage?
I am all about improving flexibility and family-friendliness in the workplace. But the answer to this problem is not supporting people who were duped into MLMs in the name of feminism. I'll support things that actually help women, thank you very much.
A longstanding friend of mine has been involved in a well known MLM for 10+ years. If she's made as much money at it as she could have in freelancing her actual marketable skills, I'll eat her Schedule C's.
I've spent a lot of time wondering what's in it for her. I inadvertently attended a few meetings with her before I understood the euphemisms "makeover party", "customer appreciation event", and "birthday gift" (the last one I'm still a bit salty about). What I think it gave her was time away from her husband and kids, and a soul-sucking job, with some very upbeat encouraging women and a bit of bling. The whole thing struck me as fake and manipulative, but if you're working a dead-end job and everyone at home wants something from you and it doesn't feel like you're getting a lot back, I can see the appeal. If you can justify it by calling it a business, nobody questions a few hours a week dancing, clapping, and spending money on makeup. And if they do question it, you have a whole stable of women who will give you hugs and hair pats and lament your "unsupportive" family and friends.
MLM is not about selling products. It's about selling a "business" to it's "entrepreneurs". If it was about selling products, there wouldn't been this intense focus on recruiting other people. There would instead be dedicated sales people for a market. Cutco and Kirby both do direct sales, but they try to sell their products, not get everyone else to sell them too.
Everyone I have ever known in a MLM has put a fair chunk of their own money into it. There are conventions to travel to and educational materials from their MLM to buy. Many MLM companies require buying samples to be used at parties and the like and sellers frequently are their own biggest customer.
I had one friend who did well at an MLM. He never threw a party or attempted to recruit anyone. He simply set up a website to sell the products and let the money roll in, and it did for a while. The company found out about his website and shut it down. They wanted people to buy through their website and for him to recruit more people.
MLMs don't care about the independence of their sellers. They don't even care about selling their primary products. They want people to feel like if they just keep working and purchasing the MLMs business materials, eventually it will pay big time. They want captive consumers.
To me it feels like those who are successful are doing it at the expense of other women, though. Of course no one is forcing people to buy stuff, but let's be honest, many people buy solely out of guilt or obligation.
We're dealing with this at work right now. People at a certain level selling this crap and talking it up to brand new people who have to work with them who you can tell are uncomfortable and feel like they can't say no because these people are higher ranking than they are. I've sort of inadvertently picked up the crusade against this because it bothers me so much.
I actually see it worse amongst people who are employed and pick this stuff up on the side. Although I have few sahm in my circle, so that could be why.
Ugh. I feel like I encounter more and more men in mlms lately. Amway was the original, but advocare, visulas, and that stupid energy drink pop up for me more than party lite or 31.
I think the MLM companies are seeing an opportunity to start promoting their schemes to men. Increasingly, men are not the main breadwinners, got laid off at higher rates during the recession, and now that disability rates are soaring.
There is big money to be had preying on financially insecure men's need to be the breadwinner.
I just de-friended a guy I was friends with in high school because he started selling K.ang.en water last year and he was out of control on Facebook. He just quit a really good job to focus full-time on it. He's a bright, educated guy, but the way he posts about it makes me seriously concerned it's like a cult. I just don't get it. Google that shit and it's page after page of warnings and bad reviews - how does it still sucker people in?
I sell Tupperware. I don't push it on people. I may post about it once a month on my personal FB (but usually not even that often). It's helped me to pay for a couple family vacations so far, but I still work full-time outside of the home. My director and I went to college together and she left the teaching profession a year ago to work Tupperware full-time. She works it and doesn't depend on those below her (though we obviously help with her income), and she is far exceeding her teacher's salary. Initially she took a one-year sabbatical, but she officially resigned.
I DO think it's incredibly annoying if all you see from someone on FB is posts about their "business". I do not want to buy wraps, oils, diet pills or drinks, or skin care from a MLM (or at all, really). I have hidden at least a dozen friends, and have taken myself out of at least half a dozen groups I've been added to. I do like supporting others who work for companies like Origami Owl, Scentsy and Jamberry. I like and use those products. Tupperware is practical. If I want to spread the word on FB, I have a business page that someone can choose to like if they want to. That way I can keep it off my friends feed and only the people who have liked it need to be exposed to it.
Not all MLM are awful. Unfortunately, most of them are. But if you can find something time-tested and reputable like Tupperware, Avon, Mary Kay, etc, you can feel better about both buying and selling it.
I'm going to just come out and say it: MLMs are most attractive to people who are too lazy to work a real job.
I feel this way too. And yet the people on Facebook who are most likely to go on and on about working hard and being successful are the people doing this "work."
I know so many military wives who are involved in MLMs. Every base we've been at hosts a "business fair" a couple times each year and they're almost all MLMs with a few personal trainers and me thrown in. It's a perfect market for it because there are a ton of educated, previously professional women who can't hold a regular job because of their spouse's schedule and frequent moves, so the allure of a flexible, from-home, transportable job is strong. Honestly, if not for GBCN I wouldn't have any idea how terrible they really are. I doubt I'd ever join one because I'm too introverted to think I could be good at selling something in that model, but I would probably consider it.
But instead it just makes me angrier and more indignant because these companies seem to prey on vulnerable populations like military wives, who are not rolling in money to begin with. And they lose even more to these schemes. I wish I could find a way to tactfully expose the truth about all of these each time another friend falls for it.
In general I really hate MLM's, though I DO know a few women who are actually quite successfuk doing it. Two of them are with Arb.onne and have the whole white Mercedes thing going (anyone know how exactly that works?)
Another one does isa.genix.
But what bothers me about both of them is still how they try to hawk others to sell. It's not even about the product, it's recruiting others to sell.
I don't know about Arbonne, but I know with Nerium, you get the Lexus if you sell a certain amount BUT you only get to keep it if you continue selling that amount! Which is another scam, because you have to purchase or lease the car and they pay for it on a monthly basis. So, if you get the car and then fail to maintain sales levels after a few months, you're on the hook for all the remaining payments.
I'm going to just come out and say it: MLMs are most attractive to people who are too lazy to work a real job.
I don't see laziness as the common link. I have some friends who joined a MLM, realized the truth and got out (or do it nominally for their own purchases and don't even try to sell it/recruit) and there is no obvious characteristic they share. But the ones who do MLM after MLM? There is 1 commonality between them and it's that they are bad with money.
I think Tupperware and Avon made sense when we were kids and there was no internet or walmart ( I'm old) but now? Isn't Tupperware just another name for all the other plastic containers out there? And pricier ? You can buy avon online now. I thought catalogue shopping was dead
I'm going to just come out and say it: MLMs are most attractive to people who are too lazy to work a real job.
I don't see laziness as the common link. I have some friends who joined a MLM, realized the truth and got out (or do it nominally for their own purchases and don't even try to sell it/recruit) and there is no obvious characteristic they share. But the ones who do MLM after MLM? There is 1 commonality between them and it's that they are bad with money.
I agree. Like I said before, most people I know who do them are military spouses who would love to have a career, but it's really just not possible. One friend is a Lt. Col. In the military herself, and she is working with one because someone convinced her that it will be enough income to supplement her retirement when she gets out in a few years, so she started now to "build her business" for when she retires from the military. Another works part time, is in graduate school full time, and has two little kids. Lazy they are not. Uninformed, absolutely. Bad with money, maybe, but I don't know their entire financial picture. But not lazy.
I think Tupperware and Avon made sense when we were kids and there was no internet or walmart ( I'm old) but now? Isn't Tupperware just another name for all the other plastic containers out there? And pricier ? You can buy avon online now. I thought catalogue shopping was dead
Tupperware really made sense for direct sales because it was something totally new. People didn't know to buy it in stores because they didn't even know it existed. Salespeople were able to introduce the product in a more direct manner and show what a useful product it was.
Does anyone know if Tupperware pushed the recruiting or was it more just direct sales? Honestly, it seems like if you are selling something, getting everyone you know selling it would be a bad business move.
Even if something totally new, like Tupperware, came out today day, direct sales wouldn't be how the word got out. It would be all about the internet.
I know so many military wives who are involved in MLMs. Every base we've been at hosts a "business fair" a couple times each year and they're almost all MLMs with a few personal trainers and me thrown in. It's a perfect market for it because there are a ton of educated, previously professional women who can't hold a regular job because of their spouse's schedule and frequent moves, so the allure of a flexible, from-home, transportable job is strong. Honestly, if not for GBCN I wouldn't have any idea how terrible they really are. I doubt I'd ever join one because I'm too introverted to think I could be good at selling something in that model, but I would probably consider it.
But instead it just makes me angrier and more indignant because these companies seem to prey on vulnerable populations like military wives, who are not rolling in money to begin with. And they lose even more to these schemes. I wish I could find a way to tactfully expose the truth about all of these each time another friend falls for it.
This is a lot of what i see, I choose to be a SAHM but because of that i budget for it, and I'm super blessed we can afford it. I do think MLM's are predatory, especially to an environment like military wives where most women want to be doing something, and there is a lot more social pressure to join in the crowd, and be friends with everyone.
I find a lot of the women I know say their doing it because they really like the product, but a few are constantly trying to recruit people to sell, or host parties or what not. No one really talks about what it has bought them other than the ones recruiting sellers. I just know if it were really about making money, they have other skills that they can use to make money, two of them are teachers, and would be fantastic tutors.
I babysat another child when i first started staying home so we could make the transition from 2 incomes to 1 a little easier. There are other options, i think they just aren't easy to see.
I'm going to just come out and say it: MLMs are most attractive to people who are too lazy to work a real job.
This article gets a big NEWP. And, I definitely agree with the above comment. If the (two!) successful MLM women I know devoted this much time and energy to a full time sales job, they'd be making at least twice what Ar.bonnne or whomever is paying...
I think Tupperware and Avon made sense when we were kids and there was no internet or walmart ( I'm old) but now? Isn't Tupperware just another name for all the other plastic containers out there? And pricier ? You can buy avon online now. I thought catalogue shopping was dead
Tupperware really made sense for direct sales because it was something totally new. People didn't know to buy it in stores because they didn't even know it existed. Salespeople were able to introduce the product in a more direct manner and show what a useful product it was.
Does anyone know if Tupperware pushed the recruiting or was it more just direct sales? Honestly, it seems like if you are selling something, getting everyone you know selling it would be a bad business move.
Even if something totally new, like Tupperware, came out today day, direct sales wouldn't be how the word got out. It would be all about the internet.
that's the difference between normal direct sales and MLMs. In order to stay active as a seller you have to canibalize your own sales because you won't make any decent money or move up in the company until you get multiple layers under you.
I'm going to just come out and say it: MLMs are most attractive to people who are too lazy to work a real job.
I don't see laziness as the common link. I have some friends who joined a MLM, realized the truth and got out (or do it nominally for their own purchases and don't even try to sell it/recruit) and there is no obvious characteristic they share. But the ones who do MLM after MLM? There is 1 commonality between them and it's that they are bad with money.
Admittedly I could be biased because anecdotally, the people I know who do these (not all women either!) have in common that they don't really like working and are always trying to find easy money with minimal effort.
Tupperware is something I actually buy. Like I'll be "hey we need some more Tupperware." But I've never been like "man, I really need a new skin cream that's not one of the 95 different brands available at Sephora or Target. I wish someone would sell me one."
Post by lyssbobiss, Command, B613 on Apr 20, 2015 7:38:32 GMT -5
Nope. I'm allowed to be a feminist and still think it's a steaming pile of garbage and frankly anti-feminist for you to hit up all your friends to spend their money on your crappy wares.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
I don't see laziness as the common link. I have some friends who joined a MLM, realized the truth and got out (or do it nominally for their own purchases and don't even try to sell it/recruit) and there is no obvious characteristic they share. But the ones who do MLM after MLM? There is 1 commonality between them and it's that they are bad with money.
Admittedly I could be biased because anecdotally, the people I know who do these (not all women either!) have in common that they don't really like working and are always trying to find easy money with minimal effort.
Tupperware is something I actually buy. Like I'll be "hey we need some more Tupperware." But I've never been like "man, I really need a new skin cream that's not one of the 95 different brands available at Sephora or Target. I wish someone would sell me one."
Tupperware will last forever. It's great.
I have a "friend" who works for a wine selling MLM and contacts me fairly frequently to host a party. Dude, we live in a town with (off the top of my head) 4 wineries. I DON'T WANT YOUR MLM COMPANY WINE. Of course she was the one who posted this article on my feed.
I'm going to just come out and say it: MLMs are most attractive to people who are too lazy to work a real job.
I don't see laziness as the common link. I have some friends who joined a MLM, realized the truth and got out (or do it nominally for their own purchases and don't even try to sell it/recruit) and there is no obvious characteristic they share. But the ones who do MLM after MLM? There is 1 commonality between them and it's that they are bad with money.
My aunt is a very hard worker. Her primary career is real estate. I would say there are two aspects to MLM that she's addicted to. One, she likes the self help bullshit they peddle her way, something like the Prosperity Gospel of if you work hard enough, you too can be rich.
These schemes repeat the same two things over and over. That you're a harder worker than your friends and family, that you're willing to put in the time, to never give up, to dedicate your all to being a success and two, that you can be rich, you can have an exciting lifestyle, take fancy vacations (yanno, to MLM conferences but okay) and earn all these rewards and shit that your friends don't. And your friends could, btw, they just don't have the stamina and dedication that you do.
MLMs are my aunt's jam because she has a natural feeling of superiority and MLMs feed that. It's all an illusion from what I can see. Because if they really worked, she wouldn't be hopping from one MLM to another. She'd still be with Amway or Primerica or all of that other stuff she's tried.
Honestly, for me, the most annoying people aren't the MLMers themselves. It's the people they sucker into hosting a party for them. "Come to my party I'm having for my friend. You just have to buy x amount of stuff and I'll get stuff for free. Isn't that cool? I mean I could never sell 31 bags myself but they are so cute and I want one so come buy them so I can get one without paying for it."
Post by tacosforlife on Apr 20, 2015 9:39:56 GMT -5
Also, MLM plays heavily on working mom guilt, convincing women that they are harming their families by being away from them working full-time outside the home. But starting your own business lets you be the boss and spend more time with your kids! You get to work when YOU want to! More family time!
Someone please tell me how guilting working moms for not being good enough moms is feminist. Oh that's right, IT'S NOT.
Post by lyssbobiss, Command, B613 on Apr 20, 2015 11:27:46 GMT -5
Also, is it an MLM rule that you must send fb messages to your friends and start all messages with "hey girl!" "Hey girl, I just had to tell you about this great mascara that doesn't look clumpy and horrifying at all!" "Hey girl, I love these nail wraps!" If I get a fb message from you and haven't seen you since high school and I can see that you e started it "hey girl" I know you are trying to sell me something. Either that or you are Ryan Gosling.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
I avoid hosting by every possible means. If I host that means I have to clean and buy food and shit for people I don't really even want in my house in the first place.
Post by cattledogkisses on Apr 20, 2015 11:32:18 GMT -5
The worst is when they add you to their Facebook group, and then when you leave or don't respond to the sales pitch they start private messaging you. "Hey, did you see my group for xyz, awesome opportunity, blah blah blah." Leave me alone!