Hitting v. Defending

[bearbaby]

There's a little boy in DS' class who is very aggressive.  (They're all around the exact same young-2 age).  I've seen it in class, the teachers elude to it, DS talks about it ("Tommy* hit me today!") and in fact we had them over for a totally disastrous playdate in my effort to give them a fair shot and the kid is attention starved, but genuinely destructive.

Anyway, DS is very big and solid for his age, but has not shown any particular aggressive streaks - outside of the occasional temper tantrum induced swatting.  We have had zero issue at school.

At drop off aggressive Tommy (who is apparently obsessed with DS) ran in and started pushing DS/getting in his face/etc.  DS kind of ignored him for a bit and then turned around and shoved/hit him back off.  Tommy's mom was standing there, had done nothing to correct Tommy's behavior (again, a pattern I witnessed on our 4 hour playdate from hell) but then acted like DS owed Tommy an apology for for hitting.

I did not reinforce that to DS, and said "Say "no hitting Tommy/I don't like that!"" but I felt like I didn't want to correct DS for genuinely defending himself.  Tommy's mom gave me the definite stink eye.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?  I want DS to learn to go ask for help/use words/etc - but in an example of known aggression, should I be chastising him for defending himself?  (I do reinforce with general "It's not nice to hit - use our words" message - just not specific "DS YOU were not nice for hitting")

*Names changed

[Deleted]

I'll be honest. I would've done what you did. There is a girl at DDs daycare a few months younger who does a lot of what you describe to DD. DD is generally good about it but will react back. I don't do anything about it other than say, "You know it hurts when A hits you? I understand why you did it back but it hurts her too so let's walk away or use words!"

I don't want to encourage aggressive behavior in my kids either.....but somedays...sometimes.

I had a long chat with DCP about this and she says she'll let the kids defend back within reason too because she totally understands why they do. She just talks about and gives other alternatives obviously.

So I hear you. What I'm doing isn't "right" either but I'm also tired of my kid getting hit unprovoked too.

DD is getting old enough now to understand because she'll say, "Mom A is so mean. She hit me. I hit her back. That wasn't nice at all, but it hurt and I didn't know what to do. She doesn't like it when I use words. I walked away but she followed me."

[bearbaby]

@justdairy. I get it - that's kind of how I feel. But DS is still younger, so to PP's point, probably doesn't understand (and I don't clarify 'hitting back' vs. 'hitting')

Our DCP has said the same - Tommy is the class hitter/bully. She said DS is the only one that stands up to him (apparently more with "NO!" and grabbing stolen toys back than hitting, but still) and that she doesn't intervene with reasonable defense mechanisms.

I'll like the points of continuing to reinforce that hitting is not nice/hurts and walking away.

I just couldn't believe this Mom, who I've seen in action plenty, does nothing to actively correct her kid (Dad is a screamer, she just seems browbeaten, to be honest) but then is all high & mighty when my kid shoves him off.

Although I have e a level of sympathy because Tommy is high maintenance and to some degree, you can only do SO much when they're 2, and her DH is a piece of work.

[cjeanette]

It's a normal reaction esp at that age. You still have to correct the behavior. Just because this kid is aggressive doesn't make it ok to hit.

The other kid is a separate issue that I think you need to address with the teacher or director. Even if that never changes though I thinks it's important to try to teach kids to be the bigger person and do the right thing. Not that he is going to get those concepts now but if you don't correct the behavior he never will.

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2015 8:46:24 GMT -5 bearbaby said:

@justdairy. I get it - that's kind of how I feel. But DS is still younger, so to PP's point, probably doesn't understand (and I don't clarify 'hitting back' vs. 'hitting')

Our DCP has said the same - Tommy is the class hitter/bully. She said DS is the only one that stands up to him (apparently more with "NO!" and grabbing stolen toys back than hitting, but still) and that she doesn't intervene with reasonable defense mechanisms.

I'll like the points of continuing to reinforce that hitting is not nice/hurts and walking away.

I just couldn't believe this Mom, who I've seen in action plenty, does nothing to actively correct her kid (Dad is a screamer, she just seems browbeaten, to be honest) but then is all high & mighty when my kid shoves him off. I do have a level of sympathy because Tommy is high maintenance and to some degree, you can only do SO much when they're 2, but still - c'mon!

I started really young with DD on this and she understood more than I thought she would, so I'd just keep trying. They've been DC friends since birth and it's all I could do really. 

I work with moms like this everyday. DC friend's mom is a lot like what you describe. Her husband is a bit off the wall and useless, she has 2 boys that she really struggles with. She just seems so exhausted trying to survive. And she likes to play the "Why my kid?" card a lot too.

All you can do is know you're doing the right thing, not let her get to you and just keep on with your own.

[cjeanette]

Apr 24, 2015 8:46:24 GMT -5 bearbaby said:

I just couldn't believe this Mom, who I've seen in action plenty, does nothing to actively correct her kid (Dad is a screamer, she just seems browbeaten, to be honest) but then is all high & mighty when my kid shoves him off.

Although I have e a level of sympathy because Tommy is high maintenance and to some degree, you can only do SO much when they're 2, and her DH is a piece of work.

This makes me sad. This sounds like a kid on C's soccer team. At age 10 he is a nightmare.

[mlt]

DS1 had a kid like that in his class last year. The bully's parents didn't discipline for aggressive behavior because it was "age appropriate." I KNOW it's age appropriate, but that doesn't mean you ignore it. Anyway, DS1 basically spent a lot of time running away from this kid and we were torn. I wanted to tell DS1 "shove him back!" but we had a new baby coming and I didn't want DS1 to think shoving was okay. Eventually the bully kid moved away, thank god.

[bearbaby]

Apr 24, 2015 8:50:00 GMT -5 cjeanette said:

Apr 24, 2015 8:46:24 GMT -5 bearbaby said:

I just couldn't believe this Mom, who I've seen in action plenty, does nothing to actively correct her kid (Dad is a screamer, she just seems browbeaten, to be honest) but then is all high & mighty when my kid shoves him off.

Although I have e a level of sympathy because Tommy is high maintenance and to some degree, you can only do SO much when they're 2, and her DH is a piece of work.

This makes me sad. This sounds like a kid on C's soccer team. At age 10 he is a nightmare.

It IS sad.  We had the whole family (Tommy and his older (4.5YO) sister over with both parents) and I was shocked.  Both kids were total out of control nightmares, neither parent made any constructive correction, and Dad was both a jackass in general AND screamed at the kids.

Mom just seems totally drowned.  This little boy in this situation - I see the potential for just a terror of a child.

[bearbaby]

Thank you all - I will continue to reiterate w/ "We don't hit" and "Hitting is not nice" and separate the situation whenever I'm there to do so.

I'll follow up more with the DCP about Tommy's level of aggression towards DS in general/throughout the day. I don't get the impression DS is being hurt or traumatized, but I wanted to understand to what degree Tommy is in his face all the time. (Like I said - apparently Tommy considers DS his best buddy - so it's a weird dynamic).

Just sucks watching your kid get shoved/hit, regardless.

[redheadk]

I would have just said to DD, "I know you are frustrated because Tommy was in your face and hitting you but we don't hit. Use your loud words or walk to your teacher."

Right or wrong, my kid would absolutely not be apologizing and if mom pressed it, I'd offer to have DD apologize for hitting back after her son apologizes to her for hitting first.

ETA: I have zero patience for parents that don't even try to correct poor behavior.

[Ashley&Scott]

M has kids like this in his class, we taught him to take step back, say "no thank you" & tell a teacher. The teachers also work with the class about giving everyone personal space.

I wouldn't make M apologize in that situation, but I would discuss it with him. "I know that made you feel uncomfortable when Tommy was too close to you. When someone makes you uncomfortable remember to use your words & ask for help. Tell them NO THANK YOU & go get your teacher."

[bearbaby]

These are all so tremendously helpful - thank you.

I love the phrase "loud words" - we've been using the "Say no thank you!" line a lot, but I'm going to add in Loud Words/Ask a Teacher For Help in this and other circumstances of frustration.

[NandaB]

We had a friend like that in MOMS club. At this age I think its important to be consistent, so if my kid hits/pushes back I say "its not ok to hit, even if someone hits you first. Instead say no, dont hit me, and go away from them. Tell a grown up if they do it again"

I will admit though when my son tries to take something away from my daughter and she bites him (he's almost 4, she's 2) I TELL. her not to bite, but inside I'm like, "go girl!"


ETA I wouldn't make my kid say "no thank you". You don't need to be polite when you are telling someone to stop hurting you. And I don't want my kids to think "no thank you" is something you yell or say aggressively. I prefer "no! Dont ____ me." buy I guess that's just personal preference.