Chinese Olympic training methods -swim & gymnastic

[mominatrix]

some pretty disturbing images, so no c & p:


here:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2181374/Ye-Shiwen--forging-Mandarin-mermaid-How-Chinese-children-brutalised-future-Olympians.html


(I have to say, I found the article fascinating and disturbing, but the last couple of paragraphs really pissed me off)

[marynjoe]

That shit pisses me off and makes me cry at the same time.

[pamela]

I saw these last week and refuse to watch or apprciate the chinese gymnasts because of this. It makes me sick to watch.

[Deleted]

Ugh, how barbaric.

[Deleted]

The interesting part for Ye Shiwen is that she is trained in brisbane, Australia (now) it would be interesting to see what she felt was the difference.

[emilyj]

I don't appreciate the Chinese gymnasts after 2008 because they were dirty cheaters.

This post actually had a different/similar article (but with worse pictures, I think) that talked about the Chinese training methods from about a week and half ago, and some comparisons to training in the US - pandce.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=39945&page=1

I don't understand the Chinese training system at all. I don't get the idea behind it, the culture, the mentality, the selection process...nothing. I think it's disgusting.

NBC did a piece on the male Chinese swimmer that was training in Australia - he had a couple of people from China with him at practice. A translator and a couple other of official looking people. I can't imagine that the Chinese swimmers training in Australia are there without some sort of Chinese officials monitoring them every single minute.

[emilyj]

Aug 13, 2012 20:03:21 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

A couple of weeks ago, I posted this:

pandce.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=40291


but no one really responded. Not that they were obliged to. But I do think that it's a human rights issue.

I completely missed the original post, but I just read the article, and holy shit. I remember the piece NBC did on the East Germans and the doping issue, gosh when was it...at the 96 games? It was horrifying. Reading that piece is terrifying.

I absolutely agree that it's a human rights issue. For fuck's sake, it's SPORTS. I mean, I was an athlete, and I love sports to death, but I'm just shaking my head in amazement that countries are willing to do this for sports dominance. That's fucking sick.

[mrsukyankee]

While I agree that the Chinese probably do bad things to get medals (especially with their record) do note that The Daily Mailmos one of Bristains's tabloid journals and tend to sensationalise articles a lot.

[karinothing]

This is all disgusting. I personally think countries that practices these behaviors should be barred from the olympics.

[Deleted]

Aug 14, 2012 6:52:11 GMT -5 karinothing said:

This is all disgusting. I personally think countries that practices these behaviors should be barred from the olympics.

I agree. This was all brought to light several years ago during another olympics, NBC did a special on it between airing competitions. I've wondered since then why there wasn't any outrage.

[marynjoe]

Aug 13, 2012 20:03:21 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

A couple of weeks ago, I posted this:

pandce.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=40291


but no one really responded. Not that they were obliged to. But I do think that it's a human rights issue.

I just read that and then I searched for pics. Damn.

[pugz]

I didn't read the article, just looked at the pictures. Uggh, not surprising but it's horrible. I was so pissed about the under aged gymnasts in 2008 (anyone remember Bela Karoyli's rant?)

I worry about the Chinese athletes that return home after a poor performance at the Olympics and how they are treated.

[Deleted]

how dare we impose our western ideal of human rights on them......

It makes you wonder though. Granted the US doesn't have these types of camps, but some of the Olympic parents look like they may have had their own "home version" of the Chinese camps.

Also, India has 1B people and yet very few medals. Is it because Cricket isn't an olympic sport :-)?

[onomatopoeia]

This is just so crazy. And for what? To be the best at a game? A sport? I could almost understand it more (not agree with it, but understand it) if they trained their military this way. Or maybe they do?

[eclaires]

I agree that it is horrifying and I do think they should be banned. I also think it's a human rights issue.

I'm also greatly amused that the US beat them pretty handily in the medal totals. I know that our athletes train hard, and miss out on a lot, and I don't doubt that it consumes their lives. But they have a choice, and if they wanted to quit, they could. I doubt the same could be said for the Chinese athletes.

So, you can cheat. You can push your people to crazy lengths. You can start training them at age 3. But you still didn't win.

[marie427]

Aug 14, 2012 8:43:29 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I agree that it is horrifying and I do think they should be banned. I also think it's a human rights issue.

I'm also greatly amused that the US beat them pretty handily in the medal totals. I know that our athletes train hard, and miss out on a lot, and I don't doubt that it consumes their lives. But they have a choice, and if they wanted to quit, they could. I doubt the same could be said for the Chinese athletes.

So, you can cheat. You can push your people to crazy lengths. You can start training them at age 3. But you still didn't win.

Mmmmmmhmmmmm.

I don't doubt that U.S. training camps are grueling as hell but I'd be shocked if any of this was happening to 4-year-olds here. And kids aren't plucked away from their families for years with little contact either.

The article SBP posted is awful.

[eclaires]

Aug 14, 2012 8:53:07 GMT -5 marie427 said:

Aug 14, 2012 8:43:29 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I agree that it is horrifying and I do think they should be banned. I also think it's a human rights issue.

I'm also greatly amused that the US beat them pretty handily in the medal totals. I know that our athletes train hard, and miss out on a lot, and I don't doubt that it consumes their lives. But they have a choice, and if they wanted to quit, they could. I doubt the same could be said for the Chinese athletes.

So, you can cheat. You can push your people to crazy lengths. You can start training them at age 3. But you still didn't win.

Mmmmmmhmmmmm.

I don't doubt that U.S. training camps are grueling as hell but I'd be shocked if any of this was happening to 4-year-olds here. And kids aren't plucked away from their families for years with little contact either.

The article SBP posted is awful.

Right! And I would say minus gymnastics, where the girls tend to be younger, most of them have fairly normal high school/college lives, you know? Missy Franklin is a good example, I think. Or I look at the track/field girl (who I think won gold) who had twins or something and came back from that? A Chinese athlete would probably be dropped from the team...

I think American athletes have a lot of control on how they do their training and it's not run by the government, so if they want to slack off and then bust their ass to make the team, they can. I don't think that's the same in China.

[pescalita]

Aug 14, 2012 8:22:24 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Aug 13, 2012 20:03:21 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

A couple of weeks ago, I posted this:

pandce.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=40291


but no one really responded. Not that they were obliged to. But I do think that it's a human rights issue.

I read it when you posted, but I was so disgusted I could not form a response. I did bring in up in conversation at work though.

Yup. I mentioned it to a few people. That and the gymnastics picture changed my opinion on Chinese doping. I forgot for a minute that they're the Chinese.

[emilyj]

Aug 14, 2012 8:40:57 GMT -5 @septimus said:

how dare we impose our western ideal of human rights on them......

It makes you wonder though. Granted the US doesn't have these types of camps, but some of the Olympic parents look like they may have had their own "home version" of the Chinese camps.

Also, India has 1B people and yet very few medals. Is it because Cricket isn't an olympic sport :-)?

If imposing our western ideals of human rights means that little three year old children don't have grown men standing on them as they cry in pain to make them more flexible, after that three year old has been ripped from their family and will not see them but one or two times a year for the next 13-14 years...

Yeah. I can get down with that.

[Deleted]

Aug 14, 2012 10:14:53 GMT -5 emilyj said:

Aug 14, 2012 8:40:57 GMT -5 @septimus said:

how dare we impose our western ideal of human rights on them......

It makes you wonder though. Granted the US doesn't have these types of camps, but some of the Olympic parents look like they may have had their own "home version" of the Chinese camps.

Also, India has 1B people and yet very few medals. Is it because Cricket isn't an olympic sport :-)?

If imposing our western ideals of human rights means that little three year old children don't have grown men standing on them as they cry in pain to make them more flexible, after that three year old has been ripped from their family and will not see them but one or two times a year for the next 13-14 years...

Yeah. I can get down with that.

I just wanted to spice things up a little...

[mominatrix]

I have to say that the only positive in all this is that in my lifetime (maybe not yours, as I'm an oldster), I remember lots lots lots of countries used to have systems like this... now, the numbers of people subjected to this are reduced dramatically.

The Soviet bloc countries pretty much all had this style of training for Olympic and other athletes. And it was all pretty awful.

[marynjoe]

Aug 14, 2012 10:14:53 GMT -5 emilyj said:

Aug 14, 2012 8:40:57 GMT -5 @septimus said:

how dare we impose our western ideal of human rights on them......

It makes you wonder though. Granted the US doesn't have these types of camps, but some of the Olympic parents look like they may have had their own "home version" of the Chinese camps.

Also, India has 1B people and yet very few medals. Is it because Cricket isn't an olympic sport :-)?

If imposing our western ideals of human rights means that little three year old children don't have grown men standing on them as they cry in pain to make them more flexible, after that three year old has been ripped from their family and will not see them but one or two times a year for the next 13-14 years...

Yeah. I can get down with that.

Me too.

[eclaires]

Aug 14, 2012 10:01:04 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Aug 14, 2012 8:43:29 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I agree that it is horrifying and I do think they should be banned. I also think it's a human rights issue.

I'm also greatly amused that the US beat them pretty handily in the medal totals. I know that our athletes train hard, and miss out on a lot, and I don't doubt that it consumes their lives. But they have a choice, and if they wanted to quit, they could. I doubt the same could be said for the Chinese athletes.

So, you can cheat. You can push your people to crazy lengths. You can start training them at age 3. But you still didn't win.

Even if the Chinese kids are literally allowed to quit (which I also doubt they are), there's a huge difference between quitting swimming in the US and "just" going to a DIII school where you major in Bio and then go on to med school, and quitting in China where you are returned to rural poverty where your entire family is subsisting on less than $2 a day. These sports camps in the totalitarian countries are sold as a better life, a way to see the world, to be a hero for father China. But the reality is that the kids are used up and thrown away and sports like gymnastics can really ruin a body so, I can only imagine the long term consequences of being sort of cast aside by your government whether they do that pre or post-olympic appearance.

Yes, ITA with that, and with this:

Aug 14, 2012 10:02:15 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

At the very least, Americans get to pick their coach, so even this socialist liberal can see the value of the free market in that system.

I think that despite how hard our athletes might train, and how much their lives are consumed by it all, they maintain a level of control over it that a Chinese athlete never would. And it's not the only avenue open to them. They can skip the Olympics and still have good college career if that appeals, but still have a scholarship to college.

It's just really sad, and I hate that the IOC seems to just look the other way because I know the US teams and other countries have not been quiet about their suspicions of the Chinese gymnasts in Beijing (for example). I get the feeling if a Chinese athlete was injured they'd be cast aside pretty quickly with no support. It's really disgusting and disturbing.