BREAKING NEWS: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray...

[anonymous]

BREAKING NEWS: Preliminary findings show Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport van

www.wjla.com/articles/2015/04/breaking-news-no-evidence-found-that-freddie-gray-s-death-was-result-of-police-who-arrested-him-prob.html

BALTIMORE, Md. (WJLA) -- An investigation into the death of Baltimore resident Freddie Gray has found no evidence that his fatal injuries were caused during the videotaped arrest and interaction with police officers, according to multiple law enforcement sources.

The sources spoke to ABC7 News after being briefed on the findings of a police report turned over to prosecutors on Thursday as well as preliminary findings made by the medical examiner's office.

Sources said the medical examiner found Gray's catastrophic injury was caused when he slammed into the back of the police transport van, apparently breaking his neck; a head injury he sustained matches a bolt in the back of the van.

Details surrounding exactly what caused Gray to slam into the back of the van was unclear. The officer driving the van has yet to give a statement to authorities. It’s also unclear whether Gray’s head injury was voluntary or was a result of some other action.

[Deleted]

Whether his head injury was voluntary?

Wut?

[msmerymac]

So a friend is arguing that this is consistent with the other dude's testimony that FG injured himself and I'm like  ^o). So now the riots should stop because, duh, it shows that police were not the cause of his death. Except... that's not what it shows at all. It shows that a rough ride could absolutely have caused it. 

Granted, it also shows that he could have fallen the wrong way unintentionally, but BPD should still face SOME consequences for not securing him properly.

[anonymous]

The PD report is going to say he slammed his own head into the back of the van, i'm sure

[runforrest]

Here we go...they are going to use the other guy in the van to show that Freddie did this to himself.

Nope, no police brutality here, folks.

[anonymous]

does broken neck=crushed voice box?

ETA: also, why would the investigation be complete without a statement from the driver of the van?  That seems so basic. pennypenny

[pixy0stix]

Ok, even if (and it's a big fucking if) Freddie did do this to himself - What about ALL the other cases in the past 4 years that were PROVEN to be the police's fault. Are people willing to just gloss right over those, too?

[anonymous]

Apr 30, 2015 15:19:21 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Ok, even if (and it's a big fucking if) Freddie did do this to himself - What about ALL the other cases in the past 4 years that were PROVEN to be the police's fault. Are people willing to just gloss right over those, too?

I think that's exactly what will happen.  All we will hear, IF he did this to himself, all we will hear is he did this to himself, the poor BPD, officers trying their best and look what happened.

[heyjude]

Why why why would he do this to himself?! Did he have a history of mental issues? Is it even physically possible/feasible to do something like this to yourself while restrained in a van?

[KateAggie]

And they're going to get away with it. I'm stunned. I really thought they couldn't weasel out of this one.

[usuallylurking]

Apr 30, 2015 15:14:13 GMT -5 anonymous said:

does broken neck=crushed voice box?

ETA: also, why would the investigation be complete without a statement from the driver of the van?  That seems so basic. pennypenny

Officers aren't required to give a statement. I just read about this because I wondered the same thing. The driver is under a criminal investigation at this point, along with the other officers, and he is not obligated to give up his rights in that regard.

[summer]

Apr 30, 2015 15:24:40 GMT -5 KateAggie said:

And they're going to get away with it. I'm stunned. I really thought they couldn't weasel out of this one.

Totally going to get away with it.  

[anonymous]

Apr 30, 2015 15:26:04 GMT -5 usuallylurking said:

Apr 30, 2015 15:14:13 GMT -5 anonymous said:

does broken neck=crushed voice box?

ETA: also, why would the investigation be complete without a statement from the driver of the van?  That seems so basic. pennypenny

Officers aren't required to give a statement. I just read about this because I wondered the same thing. The driver is under a criminal investigation at this point, along with the other officers, and he is not obligated to give up his rights in that regard.

Thank you

[eclaires]

I would think it would be incredibly difficult to give yourself a head injury like that (identifiable enough because of a specific bolt) on purpose - that says to me it was a pretty heavy trauma if you can identify what you hit the head on?

At best, it would seem like he was not restrained properly/safely, and they were trying to injure him with a violent ride.

[ESF]

Apr 30, 2015 15:19:21 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Ok, even if (and it's a big fucking if) Freddie did do this to himself - What about ALL the other cases in the past 4 years that were PROVEN to be the police's fault. Are people willing to just gloss right over those, too?

Only the rap sheet of the black victim is relevant.  HTH.

[penguingrrl]

Of course they're going to weasel out of this one too. And the racists will again use that to claim there is no bias in policing and those poor officers were facing reverse racism when they were just honest people trying to do their jobs. Ugh!

[pixy0stix]

I would like to say, ftr, that I 100% do not believe that he did this to himself.

[usuallylurking]

I think, unless there is evidence that the officers beat him, or put their hands on him in regards to slamming him into the wall, a "rough ride" is not really provable. So it will fall to violating the seatbelt protocol, and whatever penalty that comes with that.

ETA: and I'm not saying that I'm ok with that. But that is how I see this unfolding, provided there isn't more evidence to show direct officer force.

[ESF]

Who conducted this investigation? Who was it done on behalf of? There's a lot of info missing from the article.

[usuallylurking]

Apr 30, 2015 15:26:55 GMT -5 anonymous said:

Apr 30, 2015 15:26:04 GMT -5 usuallylurking said:

Officers aren't required to give a statement. I just read about this because I wondered the same thing. The driver is under a criminal investigation at this point, along with the other officers, and he is not obligated to give up his rights in that regard.

Thank you

You're welcome. The union lawyer was also upset with the mayor for insinuating that that officer is hindering the investigation by not supplying his statement.

www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-freddie-gray-mayor-comments-20150422-story.html

[katfco]

Apr 30, 2015 15:31:54 GMT -5 usuallylurking said:

I think, unless there is evidence that the officers beat him, or out their hands on him in regards to slamming him into the wall, a "rough ride" is not really provable. So it will fall to violating the seatbelt protocol, and whatever penalty that comes with that.

ETA: and I'm not saying that I'm ok with that. But that is how I see this unfolding, provided there isn't more evidence to show direct officer force.

That's because no one bothered to secure that evidence when the incident happened. 

[gpw]

Apr 30, 2015 15:19:21 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Ok, even if (and it's a big fucking if) Freddie did do this to himself - What about ALL the other cases in the past 4 years that were PROVEN to be the police's fault. Are people willing to just gloss right over those, too?

This is where I'm sitting. 

[ESF]

Apr 30, 2015 15:30:44 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I would like to say, ftr, that I 100% do not believe that he did this to himself.

Just so I'm clear, I didn't think you were saying that!  Just pointing out general hypocrisy.

Here's my "let's say what they are saying is right" question.  There's  evidence that he was injured and in pain when he got into the van, yes?  So is it possible that he could have been injured in such a way as to provoke a seizure, which is what led to his actions in the car?  

[Deleted]

Apr 30, 2015 15:19:21 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Ok, even if (and it's a big fucking if) Freddie did do this to himself - What about ALL the other cases in the past 4 years that were PROVEN to be the police's fault. Are people willing to just gloss right over those, too?

Also, I honestly haven't been following all the details of this case super closely because it just pisses me off what keeps happening...but didn't he get arrested "unlawfully" in the first place? He wasn't committing a crime, just got scared when he saw the cops and started running? 

That right there is the bigger issue that needs to be discussed. Too many of us are getting harassed and/or arrested and/or killed by the police for simply breathing while being black. 

[usuallylurking]

Apr 30, 2015 15:40:43 GMT -5 ESF said:

Apr 30, 2015 15:30:44 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I would like to say, ftr, that I 100% do not believe that he did this to himself.

Just so I'm clear, I didn't think you were saying that!  Just pointing out general hypocrisy.

Here's my "let's say what they are saying is right" question.  There's  evidence that he was injured and in pain when he got into the van, yes?  So is it possible that he could have been injured in such a way as to provoke a seizure, which is what led to his actions in the car?  

I think he was tased prior to being out in the van. I've only heard that through the people shouting on the YouTube videos, I haven't read it or heard it reported anywhere else. So I think pain, yes, but I don't necessarily know that he was injured before getting in the van.

[charminglife]

Apr 30, 2015 15:05:19 GMT -5 anonymous said:

 It’s also unclear whether Gray’s head injury was voluntary or was a result of some other action.

They just HAD to put this in here.  Everyone can fuck right off with this 'voluntary' injury shit.  

I don't like the world right now. 

[ringstrue]

he slammed into the back of the police transport van, apparently breaking his neck; a head injury he sustained matches a bolt in the back of the van.





NO. You do not slam your own head into a bolt. Sorry, try again.

[pixy0stix]

Apr 30, 2015 15:56:11 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Apr 30, 2015 15:43:14 GMT -5 @wandering said:

Also, I honestly haven't been following all the details of this case super closely because it just pisses me off what keeps happening...but didn't he get arrested "unlawfully" in the first place? He wasn't committing a crime, just got scared when he saw the cops and started running? 

That right there is the bigger issue that needs to be discussed. Too many of us are getting harassed and/or arrested and/or killed by the police for simply breathing while being black. 

Running is not grounds for arrest, but it does give you probable cause to stop. Then they found the switch blade. I will have to say this is one of the most racist laws I have heard of.

So is carrying a switchblade illegal?

ETA: I see that it is in Baltimore (illegal if carried concealed).

Side note - I have a couple of switch blades. I had no idea they were illegal in CO. One was my great-grandfather's. I also have one that I found on the farm, sharpened, and used for farm work (cutting bales, etc.).

[NewOrleans]

Apr 30, 2015 15:05:19 GMT -5 anonymous said:

It’s also unclear whether Gray’s head injury was voluntary or was a result of some other action.

(huh)

[usuallylurking]

Apr 30, 2015 15:57:34 GMT -5 poundcake said:

How big was this damn bolt that someone could "injure themself" so badly? And if it was that big, no one ever thought it would be a danger to anyone under arrest or a police office riding in the van?

That had to be one big MF bolt.
I don't buy it. Not one bit.

I think instead it's a matter of he has a bruise or wound on his head that matches the bolt, which would then infer that his head slammed into that wall, which may have caused a forceful enough blow to have broke his neck. The walls and grates are metal, so bolts are how they are in place, I don't think that means it's an unnecessarily large or protrusive bolt.