New Welfare Limits... craziness

[mominatrix]

MONDAY, MAY 25, 2015 02:58 AM PDT
The Republican campaign to destroy the poor stoops to a new low
The party of the rich is now doing everything in its power to make sure those without money live in misery
HEATHER DIGBY PARTON



Last week my colleague Simon Maloy caught us up with the latest on Kanses Gov. Sam Brownback’s famous Arthur Laffer “petri dish” experiment, in which he slashed taxes and government programs in order to usher in a Republican free market economic utopia. The experiment looks like it’s blowing up the lab:

[T]he Brownback/Laffer tax scheme hasn’t goosed the Kansas economy and it doesn’t look like it will any time soon. It has succeeded marvelously, though, in redistributing wealth to the top of the income ladder, while, at the same time, screwing over the people at the bottom. While the rich soaked up the lion’s share of the tax windfall, the poorest Kansas families actually saw their tax burden tick up a little bit.

And when it comes to screwing the poor, Kansas Republicans are proving to be among the more creative and heartlessly depraved groups of legislators in the country. Last month, the Legislature passed a resolution barring welfare recipients from spending their benefits at swimming pools, movie theaters, casinos, tattoo parlors, and strip clubs. It’s a dehumanizing and paternalistic policy that assumes the poor are undeserving of simple diversions like going to see a movie, or are scamming the government to finance their gambling and/or stripper habits.

And that’s not all. He points out that Brownback and company have devised one of those cunning Scrooge-like plans to take money that’s needed to put food in little children’s mouths and give it to big banks. Here’s how Max Ehrenfreund at the Washington Post described it:

A dollar bill is a special kind of thing. You can keep it as long as you like. You can pay for things with it. No one will ever charge you a fee. No one will ask any questions about your credit history. And other people won’t try to tell you that they know how to spend that dollar better than you do.

For these reasons, cash is one of the most valuable resources a poor person in the United States can possess. Yet legislators in Kansas, not trusting the poor to use their money wisely, have voted to limit how much cash that welfare beneficiaries can receive, effectively reducing their overall benefits, as well.

The legislature placed a daily cap of $25 on cash withdrawals beginning July 1, which will force beneficiaries to make more frequent trips to the ATM to withdraw money from the debit cards used to pay public assistance benefits.

Since there’s a fee for every withdrawal, the limit means that some families will get substantially less money.

Imagine making it so that banks can collect extra fees from mothers with small children who are trying to feed them on less than four hundred dollars a month. How cruel do you have to be to think that making them only carry 20 dollars cash will somehow teach them a lesson?


But this is what’s happening in states governed by miserly Republicans who are determined to wring every last dime out of people who have nothing and give it to people who have more than they can spend in a lifetime. In Scott Walker’s Wisconsin, for instance, they are making long lists of prohibited foods for those who use SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Programs.) The list of other prohibited purchases includes “herbs, spices, or seasonings,” all nuts, red and yellow potatoes, smoothies, spaghetti sauce, “soups, salsas, ketchup,” sauerkraut, pickles, dried beans sold in bulk, and white or albacore tuna.

They were particularly adamant that nobody on the program be allowed to eat shellfish, lobster in particular, which seems odd considering that it’s Wisconsin and the lobster catch there is decidedly small. (In fact, it’s non-existent.) I’m sure you’ll be surprised to learn that this lobster hysteria stemmed from a Fox News documentary which seems to have been the catalyst for these crackdowns on foodie welfare cheats. Media Matters reported on it back in 2013:

Prior to its August 9 airing, Fox News hyped the special, “The Great Food Stamp Binge,” on Fox News Insider, FoxNews.com, and several of its daytime shows. Each preview focused on Jason Greenslate, a freeloading surfer who Fox correspondent John Roberts interviewed in Southern California. FoxNews.com described Greenslate at length in an article that teased the “new documentary”:

“The Fox News Reporting documentary profiles, among others, a California surfer and aspiring musician named Jason Greenslate. Greenslate shows how he supports his beach-bum lifestyle with food stamps, while dismissing the idea of holding down a regular, steady job.

“‘It’s not that I don’t want a job, I don’t want a boss. I don’t want someone telling me what to do. I’m gonna live my own life,’ Greenslate tells Fox News’ John Roberts. ‘This is the way I want to live. And I don’t really see anything changing. I got the card. It’s $200. That’s it.’”

As promised, “The Great Food Stamp Binge” labeled Greenslate “the new face of food stamps,” devoting two full segments to his lifestyle in a shameless attempt to characterize SNAP recipients as freeloaders.

Yes, he was shown eating lobster on screen. Since Fox News viewers are the most misinformed people in the universe (well, America anyway) and elected Republicans seem to be among Fox News’ most ardent fans, it stands to reason that some California surfer hippie refusing to work would inflame them so much that they couldn’t see past it. Fox even had staffers deliver copies of the documentary to members of congress prior to a vote on cutting food stamps, just to make sure that hippie didn’t go unnoticed by even one Republican. You can bet it’s made the rounds of all the state houses as well.


But then Fox has been on this beat for a long time. In fact, Sean Hannity has railed about this for years:

I don’t believe people are going to bed hungry. Do you know how much, do you ever go shopping? I go sometimes but I hate it. Do you ever go? … you can get, for instance I have friends of mine who eat rice and beans all the time. Beans protein, rice. Inexpensive. You can make a big pot of this for a week for negligible amounts of money and you can feed your whole family.

Look, you should have vegetables and fruit in there as well, but if you need to survive you can survive off it. It’s not ideal but you could get some cheap meat and throw in there as well for protein. There are ways to live really, really cheaply.

Sorry Sean, but Wisconsin believes that dried beans are a luxury item. Still, it’s always thoughtful when people who reportedly make 10 million dollars a year for jabbering on TV take the time to provide recipes for poor people to live on negligible amounts of money for food. He’s just that kind of guy.

The truth, which Fox News and these Republicans are uninteresting in hearing, is that the program has less than a 1 percent fraud rate and nearly half the recipients are among the working poor. Many of the rest are children, elderly and disabled people.

We’ve known for some time that conservatives consider things like cellphones and air conditioning to be luxury items which poor people don’t deserve. Now they’ve decided that food is a luxury item as well, at least any food they deem them unworthy of eating. In fact, it’s pretty clear that the right simply believes low income people don’t know what it is to suffer and so need to be given some tough love. They don’t understand the meaning of responsibility the way that people who have money for food do. So taking away their money for food and restricting what they are allowed to eat will teach them that.

Meanwhile, Michelle Obama’s Stalinist plot to encourage children eat their vegetables must be stopped at all costs. And it’s not because they think taxpayers shouldn’t be paying for kids to eat luxury tomatoes and fancy green beans. It’s because big government has no business telling people what they should and should not eat. Why, they think that’s downright un-American. Imagine that.

Heather Digby Parton
Heather Digby Parton, also known as "Digby," is a contributing writer to Salon. She was the winner of the 2014 Hillman Prize for Opinion and Analysis Journalism.

www.salon.com/2015/05/25/the_republican_plot_to_destroy_the_poor/

[mominatrix]

I gotta know why Wisconsin has a problem with dried beans for people on SNAP. And Ketchup. It's a vegetable. Mustard isn't, but it's not on the list.

Like, I get the fancy tuna, I get the seasonings (they're not necessary for lyfe!)... but beans??? I thought dried beans were supposed to be the center of a poor person's diet.

[mominatrix]

oh, FFS. If I had to navigate this to eat, I'd probably just give up and starve. 

redic:

[jeaniebueller]

The fuck, Wisconsin? I think all of the prohibitions are ridiculous. No spices or sauces or soups? But obvs you can't make your own from scratch because you can't BUY SPICES.

[mominatrix]

May 27, 2015 9:54:26 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

May 27, 2015 9:53:34 GMT -5 mominatrix said:

I gotta know why Wisconsin has a problem with dried beans for people on SNAP. And Ketchup. It's a vegetable. Mustard isn't, but it's not on the list.

Like, I get the fancy tuna, I get the seasonings (they're not necessary for lyfe!)... but beans??? I thought dried beans were supposed to be the center of a poor person's diet.

WHAT?!?

are you thinking fresh? b/c i sure as hell am thinking canned

no, as far as I can tell, they're prohibiting white and albacore... but chunk light is OK.


the white/albacore are the spendier canned tunas.

[mominatrix]

oh, and you can't buy spaghetti sauce.


so you can live on plain pasta. Because, again, you can't make your own spaghetti sauce because NO SPICES.

[darnkatz]

May 27, 2015 9:53:34 GMT -5 mominatrix said:

I gotta know why Wisconsin has a problem with dried beans for people on SNAP. And Ketchup. It's a vegetable. Mustard isn't, but it's not on the list.

Like, I get the fancy tuna, I get the seasonings (they're not necessary for lyfe!)... but beans??? I thought dried beans were supposed to be the center of a poor person's diet.

Dried beans and tuna are provided if you get WIC benefits. Well, the tuna is provided if you are pregnant or breastfeeding. I feel like I've read before that is why they don't 'allow' it. Because every person on SNAP is obviously on WIC, too. Fucking morons. 

[mominatrix]

May 27, 2015 9:53:33 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

The list of other prohibited purchases includes “herbs, spices, or seasonings,” all nuts, red and yellow potatoes, smoothies, spaghetti sauce, “soups, salsas, ketchup,” sauerkraut, pickles, dried beans sold in bulk, and white or albacore tuna.


this is 99% of what we eat.

note to self: dont be poor in WI

just like the red and yellow potatoes... the poors should be fine with good old plain WHITE Amurican potatoes. Not those crazy Asian or Native American Potatoes.



But, apparently, these are OK, and delicious. And expensive. 


but because they aren't yellow or red, they'd be OK.  YAY for fancypants food the legislature forgot to ban!

[josieposy]

Is the overall goal to make it so complicated that people give up?

[2curlydogs]

I DIDN'T VOTE FOR THESE ASSHOLES! I WOULD LIKE THAT TO BE A MATTER OF PUBLIC RECORD!

[darnkatz]

May 27, 2015 10:08:59 GMT -5 @songforyou said:

No seasoning??  Get the f outta here.  It's just really killing them for someone who's poor to know the sweet taste of cilantro?  These people are obsessed.  They're just sitting around like, "You know what else they shouldn't be able to do?" 

Don't even get me started on the albacore.  My husband bought some regular canned tuna in here a few months ago and I could not even deal.

Wouldn't want to waste $.69 on a bunch of fresh cilantro, you know. That would be terrible. 

[msmerymac]

How many tax dollars were wasted on people coming up with these dumb lists of what to buy?

And yes, potatoes, dried beans and tuna seem to be... cheap, easy and somewhat healthy items to prepare? And god forbid your food actually be seasoned to taste good.

I'm guessing the producers of plain, canned beans in 16 ounce varieties only are lobbyists?

[mominatrix]

May 27, 2015 10:19:27 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

How many tax dollars were wasted on people coming up with these dumb lists of what to buy?

And yes, potatoes, dried beans and tuna seem to be... cheap, easy and somewhat healthy items to prepare? And god forbid your food actually be seasoned to taste good.

I'm guessing the producers of plain, canned beans in 16 ounce varieties only are lobbyists?

I'm guessing somebody somewhere said something like this:

Beans! THey should be eating Beans! Dried beans with no flavorings!  ...but not from those fancy stores! Good old grocery store beans in plastic bags, because they're 69c a pound, but bulk beans, they're 80c a pound! That's WASTEFUL! People spending OUR money should only be buying the less expensive pound-a-bag beans!


edit:
And why are people spending OUR money buying fancy Albecore tuna? I can't afford fancy tuna. I eat PLAIN tuna and like it. Also, what's wrong with good old american WHITE potatoes? Who needs those yellow ones??

[Deleted]

May 27, 2015 9:56:34 GMT -5 mominatrix said:

oh, FFS. If I had to navigate this to eat, I'd probably just give up and starve. 

redic:

I would like to see this poster/pamphlet in action because these look like the WIC restrictions. In fact, the rest of it sounds like WIC restrictions. And the only place I can find a copy of this flyer when I do a google search are on blog posts and such decrying the policy.

[mbcdefg]

May 27, 2015 10:06:55 GMT -5 josieposy said:

Is the overall goal to make it so complicated that people give up?

Duh. Because the only thing keeping these people from getting a job is laziness. 

[meshaliuknits]

Do these people at least get salt or is WI gonna have a resurgence of goiters?

[shauni27]

This makes me so, so angry. Why do "the poors" have to eat shit food? We want them to be healthy, we want them to to improve their lives, but only with the shittiest products available to them. No flavor in your food, no tv's for you. Only Rose art crayons for your kids. All must sleep in one room because you are not worthy of more. Rice and beans for a week for you and your family! THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO LEAVE, DUH. Fuck you, sean and all of the other Fox followers who think that if you are poor you do not deserve any help and that if you get any it is from the bottom of the barrel.

And fuck you to anybody who *might* be abusing the system and making it that much harder for everyone else who genuinely needs access to these resources.

[lg28]

**zips up flame-retardant suit***

I have zero issues with the ban on tattoo parlours, strip clubs and casinos. Those should Absolutely be banned under WIC. Sorry.

I agree that the rest of the restrictions are stupid. SPICES?!? They're crucial to a decent meal, especially on a budget.

[lg28]

May 27, 2015 11:43:23 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

May 27, 2015 11:42:06 GMT -5 lg28 said:

**zips up flame-retardant suit***

I have zero issues with the ban on tattoo parlours, strip clubs and casinos. Those should Absolutely be banned under WIC. Sorry.

I agree that the rest of the restrictions are stupid. SPICES?!? They're crucial to a decent meal, especially on a budget.

i dont think anyone wants someone to make it rain with SNAP dolla dolla bills but does that even happen?

I have no idea. But I'm fine with a ban, partially because then legislators can't say the funds are being abused, kwim?

[Deleted]

May 27, 2015 11:42:06 GMT -5 lg28 said:

**zips up flame-retardant suit***

I have zero issues with the ban on tattoo parlours, strip clubs and casinos. Those should Absolutely be banned under WIC. Sorry.

I agree that the rest of the restrictions are stupid. SPICES?!? They're crucial to a decent meal, especially on a budget.

WIC is for food specifically and provide a voucher in return for said items, not cash so uhm no.

Two, TANF which is what they are referring to is the cash benefit that you access with the EBT card which is the same way you access your food stamps. You cannot actually use the card at any of those places. So no.

What one does with the cash they pull off the card cannot be policed, no matter how much they wish it.

[lg28]

May 27, 2015 11:50:05 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

May 27, 2015 11:46:46 GMT -5 lg28 said:

I have no idea. But I'm fine with a ban, partially because then legislators can't say the funds are being abused, kwim?

ok, so for the devils argument - you cant get SNAP dollars from the ATM at the Dolly's Gentleman's Club. But nothing is stopping you from going to the walgreens across the street and using the ATM there before going to Dollys with your ones for the champagne room. you know?

True. I fully admit I don't completely understand how it works. Our system is run slightly differently here, and I'm fortunate enough not to have first-hand experience with it.

[lg28]

May 27, 2015 11:52:30 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

May 27, 2015 11:42:06 GMT -5 lg28 said:

**zips up flame-retardant suit***

I have zero issues with the ban on tattoo parlours, strip clubs and casinos. Those should Absolutely be banned under WIC. Sorry.

I agree that the rest of the restrictions are stupid. SPICES?!? They're crucial to a decent meal, especially on a budget.

WIC is for food specifically and provide a voucher in return for said items, not cash so uhm no.

Two, TANF which is what they are referring to is the cash benefit that you access with the EBT card which is the same way you access your food stamps. You cannot actually use the card at any of those places. So no.

What one does with the cash they pull off the card cannot be policed, no matter how much they wish it.

o

Ok this makes sense to me.

[Deleted]

May 27, 2015 11:43:23 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

May 27, 2015 11:42:06 GMT -5 lg28 said:

**zips up flame-retardant suit***

I have zero issues with the ban on tattoo parlours, strip clubs and casinos. Those should Absolutely be banned under WIC. Sorry.

I agree that the rest of the restrictions are stupid. SPICES?!? They're crucial to a decent meal, especially on a budget.

i dont think anyone wants someone to make it rain with SNAP dolla dolla bills but does that even happen?

No, not it doesn't. It just doesn't.

[ijack]

I'm really confused. Do they get different checks each month for fruits and veggies?

[Deleted]

When will the poors understand that all they really need is some 70/30 ground beef and a sack of potatoes? Tax dollars shouldn't be feeding poors, they should be padding the pockets of wealthy politicians so they can sit on their asses and make more idiotic laws.

[meshaliuknits]

May 27, 2015 11:55:55 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

May 27, 2015 11:43:23 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

i dont think anyone wants someone to make it rain with SNAP dolla dolla bills but does that even happen?

No, not it doesn't. It just doesn't.

Would be more of a drizzle anyway.

[josieposy]

May 27, 2015 12:04:54 GMT -5 meshaliuknits said:

May 27, 2015 11:55:55 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

No, not it doesn't. It just doesn't.

Would be more of a drizzle anyway.

*snort* Hey I'm eating here!

[Deleted]

May 27, 2015 11:58:04 GMT -5 ijack said:

I'm really confused. Do they get different checks each month for fruits and veggies?

Each state has some differences but at the end of the day, it's three programs, TANF, SNAP, and WIC.

WIC issues vouchers. They look a bit like a check. You'll be issued a stack of them for various items usually three months at a time. So for each month, you might get a voucher for a gallon of milk, 64oz of juice, 12oz of cheese, another for a gallon of milk, another for beans or peanut butter and two loaves of bread,  another for $10 worth of vegetables. Then you'd take the vouchers to the store and present them as you purchase your items.

SNAP and TANF benefits are issues via the EBT card. I guess I would say it's like using one ATM card to access both your savings and your checking account. If you look at your receipts when you go grocery shopping, you'll see there's a code, maybe even just a letter next to each item indicating whether it's food stamp eligible. You'd swipe your EBT card when it's time to pay and then you can use your funds to pay for the food stamp items first. Then you could use the TANF benefits to pay for the rest. Or you can pay for the remainder with whatever method of payment you like.

You could also choose a cash back option to access your TANF benefits the same way you might get cash back when paying with your ATM card.

I don't think you can use your EBT card at the ATM to access your TANF but hell if I know.

FWIW, TANF benefits are usually rather low. 12 years ago when I was eligible, I got $70/month in TANF, I think $185ish or so for Food Stamps, and qualified for WIC. So we're not talking about a huge ass amount of money. The most amount I qualified for with food stamps was $350ish/mo for two kids and two adults.

And with WIC, btw, your benefits are issued based on your family size, not income level. You either qualify or you don't.

[Deleted]

Oh and that $70 in TANF was when I was unemployed with a 2 month old baby. The minute I got a job, making $5.75/hr I might add, it dropped down to $35 a month, enough to buy diapers but not enough to make up the difference between the amount of formula WIC covered and the amount my fat ass chunk muffin actually ate.

And what is a muffing? My spell check says that's a real word. Am I going to be horrified?

[ijack]

May 27, 2015 12:11:45 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

May 27, 2015 11:58:04 GMT -5 ijack said:

I'm really confused. Do they get different checks each month for fruits and veggies?

Each state has some differences but at the end of the day, it's three programs, TANF, SNAP, and WIC.

WIC issues vouchers. They look a bit like a check. You'll be issued a stack of them for various items usually three months at a time. So for each month, you might get a voucher for a gallon of milk, 64oz of juice, 12oz of cheese, another for a gallon of milk, another for beans or peanut butter and two loaves of bread,  another for $10 worth of vegetables. Then you'd take the vouchers to the store and present them as you purchase your items.

SNAP and TANF benefits are issues via the EBT card. I guess I would say it's like using one ATM card to access both your savings and your checking account. If you look at your receipts when you go grocery shopping, you'll see there's a code, maybe even just a letter next to each item indicating whether it's food stamp eligible. You'd swipe your EBT card when it's time to pay and then you can use your funds to pay for the food stamp items first. Then you could use the TANF benefits to pay for the rest. Or you can pay for the remainder with whatever method of payment you like.

You could also choose a cash back option to access your TANF benefits the same way you might get cash back when paying with your ATM card.

I don't think you can use your EBT card at the ATM to access your TANF but hell if I know.

FWIW, TANF benefits are usually rather low. 12 years ago when I was eligible, I got $70/month in TANF, I think $185ish or so for Food Stamps, and qualified for WIC. So we're not talking about a huge ass amount of money. The most amount I qualified for with food stamps was $350ish/mo for two kids and two adults.

And with WIC, btw, your benefits are issued based on your family size, not income level. You either qualify or you don't.

This is a great explanation, thank you! I saw that they could buy things with their "vegetable check" and wasn't sure how that worked.