I think there's a legit debate about whether women should make an effort to get to know "man stuff" and fit in with the dominant culture - which is determined by straight, white men. I was willing to be all eyerolly, but I read the article, and I think it makes some good points.
You all know I'm a sports fan. But actually, I was always ONLY a hockey fan until I was an adult. I thought football was boring as shit and in high school, on football Sundays, I'd go up to my room and just do homework or watch my own TV. I hated it! It seemed slow and pointless. And please note that my team went to the Superbowl 4 times when I was a kid! And now? I love it. This has only happened in the past 10 years. Because I actually learned the rules. I promise it becomes way more interesting. But yeah, I guess boys and men are just socialized to be TAUGHT the rules. Some sports are obvious (like the goal of a hockey or soccer player), but American football is... special.
I was at my H's BFF's house and we were watching a game a year or two ago. BFF's wife is not into football at all, but their youngest daughter was sitting in the living room with us. I asked if she knew the rules, and she shook her head, so I explained the basics of the system of downs to her. She was like 8-9 years old at the time. I told her that once you understand it, it's fun to watch.
Anyway, I used to talk about football with one coworker and hockey with another. The hockey fan coworker wasn't always into the sport, but his teenaged son really got into it and started playing, and they would go to Kings games a lot and became big fans a few years before the Kings won the cup, so that was fun. My workers are cool anyway, but being able to have a variety of topics like that to talk about (oh, and Man Men and Game of Thrones are other topics of conversation!) was nice. I was one of the only women, probably, who was into sports.
But basketball? Don't even bother me with that shit. My husband goes out to watch the March Madness games on his own.
H is really into lacrosse, so that's the only sports I watch.
Did you guys know that last weekend du won the NCAA championship making them the first ever west of the Mississippi? You didn't? Oh, OK, we can talk about something else, then.
I DID know this! DH and I cheer for Syracuse, but they got knocked out early. I was looking at the final four and was like, "What? ND, ok, JH, ok, MD, of course, Denver? Denver?" But how cool that they won. Good to see a different team up there. I like watching lacrosse, but that is definitely one sport I need a tutorial in.
When I lived up north, I had no trouble talking sports. I like football and baseball and that's what most people talk about. Down here, it's all about college BB, NASCAR, fishing. I can talk college BB a little, but know jack about NASCAR and fishing and have no interest in learning. I don't think it's an issue if it's people you regularly work with. You find common interests. But when you're trying to break the ice, "How bout that local sports team?" will usually do it.
Post by delawarejen on May 29, 2015 9:38:31 GMT -5
The department next to me in the cube farm got a new boss a few years ago who is a major sports nut. Less than a year in, all of the non sports fans had left (voluntarily or not), and he's left with a department that is heavily male and heavily sports fans. He clearly treats the sports fans better (including the female ones), and he talks about sports every single day. He even stopped criticizing the work of a junior (male) employee when that employee began discussing sports more often.
I would never want to work for this guy for other reasons, but you can bet that if I did I'd make sure to know more about sports.
I can't wait for the day when men care about this convo at the office watercooler:
"So my haul came from the Sephora VIB sale and I opened Naked 2 and someone had swiped their finger in bootycall which sucks since I had hit pan on my bootycall single and it was already in my empties pile! Way to treat a Rougey, amIright Felicia?!l"
Post by jeaniebueller on May 29, 2015 9:48:46 GMT -5
I just hate the concept that women must act a certain way, have certain interest (ugh, golf, anyone?) in order to succeed in the corporate world. Its just so...unsettling. I do enjoy sports to some extent, but have no interest other than doing some mild trash talking once or twice a year. Now talk to me about Mad Men, Game of Thrones, TWD....then we could get somewhere.
Speaking of sports, WHAT THE EVERLOVING FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU, FIFA?!?! It looks like Sepp will still win.
Yes, I know UEFA and CONCACAF and others were not so ridiculous, so it's not really all of FIFA. The countries who vote for him may as well put a "for sale" sign on their foreheads.
Of course he will. The entire system is set up to keep him in power.
In the early days of our company, the big joke was that me and the (only) other woman knew more about sports than all the male engineers combined.
True story: I am much more into sports than MH and it drives him bananas that I can watch Sports Center on repeat. It's soothing to me, lol. I'm in an all male (besides myself) fantasy football league with our college friends because he didn't know enough about football to manage his own team. He's more into them now, 10 years into our marriage, and he always played sports. He just wasn't as into watching or talking about them as I was, or even still am. He'd rather do other enginerdy stuff.
I joke that I managed to find the only man on the planet who wouldn't think he'd died and gone to heaven by having a wife who loves watching ESPN.
Post by pinkdutchtulips on May 29, 2015 9:56:50 GMT -5
Thankfully this is something I'll never have to worry about... I've coordinated firm wide NC2A bracket pools and was co-commissioner of a fantasy football league
Wasnt burger the boyfriend who couldnt handle Carrie's success as opposed to his? The whole parsley on the plate at dinner incident and then the scrunchie.
I just hate the concept that women must act a certain way, have certain interest (ugh, golf, anyone?) in order to succeed in the corporate world. Its just so...unsettling. I do enjoy sports to some extent, but have no interest other than doing some mild trash talking once or twice a year. Now talk to me about Mad Men, Game of Thrones, TWD....then we could get somewhere.
This reminds me of how when I got engaged, my grandma asked me if I was finally going to learn how to play golf so I could play with my husband. I grew up going to a country club and refused to learn to golf for reasons I don't even know, lol. But my whole family golfs and I just flat out refused. I was like, "grandma...he doesn't even play golf."
Interestingly enough, though, I feel like right now there are a lot of TV shows that people should know about as a measure of cultural literacy to be able to talk to people. It seems like TWD, GOT, etc. are more common topics of social conversation now. I always sort of side eye people I come across that don't watch them, lol, because they've become such a prevalent topic of conversation.
I no longer care about or follow American football. (Take that Bengals, I've quit you!) but I grew up with it so I'm good with the lingo and I still love baseball so I'm cool for US colleague sports chatter.
But I have made so many great contacts that will hopefully help me to easily find another job in the same company when we leave the U.S. again because I can carry on a mean football/soccer or rugby conversation with the Europeans and Africans. The best networking opportunities are at the bar after a training/conference watching some sort of sporting match or at a game itself.
The only thing I've never really cared about is hockey. But I'm trying--I'm shocked at how exciting I've found these playoffs. There are just too many Canadians around in positions of power to let that one go.
Of course he will. The entire system is set up to keep him in power.
It's set up to make it easy for one person to keep power. Â Him directly? Â I don't see how that is the case. Â I admit I don't know the ins and outs besides "one country, one vote" and that he needs a simple majority.
Did he change the voting system when he came into power? Â Or is he just best at manipulating the system?
He's changed the way some of the money gets spread around and there is no guarentee that if you get someone from a bigger country in there it won't change.
I am a sports fan, so this hasn't been an issue for me. I just don't know how I feel about seminars on the issue. I kinda get it, but at the same time it makes me feel a bit squicky for some reason.
A seminar on this is gross because the idea of having to train women to be able to communicate with men at the office on a basic level is completely insulting. The implication is that the men need make no effort to discuss issues of interest to women, and/or that issues of interest to women are of interest only to women. We all know this is how men frequently tend to behave, and we all would love it if this problem would resolve through behavioral changes on the part of men, so holding a seminar on it is a bit like airing dirty laundry because we are taking ownership of a problem that shouldn't be ours to begin with.
Yes. Some women love sports. I like some sports and pay better attention to them better than male colleagues.
But I hate the idea that there's some mandatory protocol with regard to what people are supposed to like, particularly when gendered or presumably gendered. I love being a part of women's groups (sorority, panhel, junior league, a women lawyers group), but I refused to join my law school's women's group because their big thing was golfing. But aside from my fond memories of playing it with my grandpa, I have no interest in golf or learning how to golf or spending any time at a golf course that doesn't have a windmill or clown's nose. It was sold as a way to be able to have equal footing with our male colleagues in client development. F that. There are many other ways to win and maintain clients.
Wasnt burger the boyfriend who couldnt handle Carrie's success as opposed to his? The whole parsley on the plate at dinner incident and then the scrunchie.
Or was that someone else?
Yep.
It was funny. I once overheard a college girl tell the scrunchie scene to her friend. Only, in the story it wasn't Carrie and Burger, it was her grandparents. I kind of wanted to call her out on it, but I was with my ex, who also didn't get it, so there would've been no one to back me up.
I haven't read all the responses but there are plenty of men who don't like sports either. Why do we have to talk about sports? Can't we talk about the weather? the traffic? etc to make small talk
I haven't read all the responses but there are plenty of men who don't like sports either. Why do we have to talk about sports? Can't we talk about the weather? the traffic? etc to make small talk
This is true. I have had several male co workers who aren't sports fans at all and have seen them made to feel uncomfortable by other men who are sports fans.
I can't carry on a conversation about Sex in the City. I have never watched a full episode or didn't watch the movie. I'd rather watch a sporting event.
Be careful. You might get stoned by boxes of MAC lipstick and Sephora bronzer.
Personally, I have no issues with this. I like sports - I prefer College Hoops over NBA. I don't really watch football, but I do manage to catch some games during the season and can discuss the game. Also, I think that if your work environment is mostly males, then you are probably going to hear more watercooler discussion on sports.
On the other hand, since my office only has one male working in it, he hears plenty of discussion on clothing and fashion and he jumps right in to discuss it. We also hold Friday morning Scandal debriefs. Same thing for any other guy who wanders up to our office, he's going to discuss the same topics.
Hell, I was on a conference call this morning and a GUY asked me about Scandal and how I was coping with it being off for the summer (he follows me on Twitter). I replied with how I watch Extant and Game of Thrones and BAM - we started discussing Game of Thrones. So, I side-eye the thought that guys don't also talk about other topics and women can set the tone for discussion.
Post by marriedfilingjoint on May 29, 2015 11:10:15 GMT -5
This was such a thing in the Big 4. If the guys weren't circle-jerking over their favorite college alums (UNC! Wake Forest!), it was sports. NBA, NFL, and college basketball. I never conformed. So glad to work in a firm run by women now.
Building relationships at work through common interests is key to networking. If you're already into sports and that's the hot topic, great! But if not, don't fake it. People see right through that. Talk about food or entertainment or be funny or something.
I brought my coffee to work in a Redskins tumbler because it was clean and someone asked me who they got in the draft. Lolz. I can name you 0 current players on the team, let alone draft picks.
Sorry, but I would love to take this course. I work in a male-dominated industry and know nothing about sports. If we're all just sitting around waiting for a meeting to start, the conversation drifts to sports. The guys shouldn't avoid talking about sports because I'm in the room. But I would love to understand WTF they're talking about and not feel like such an idiot.
I don't think it means the men don't know how to communicate with me, but it does stop me from becoming friendlier with my coworkers because I don't share their interest in sports. I can't change that and suddenly make myself care, but I really should make an effort to at least have a vague idea of what's going on in the sports world. I don't give a shit about the weather or other people's kids, either, but I'm forced to make conversation on those topics too. That's just business, and sports is an area where women tend to be at a disadvantage more than men.
And heck - even outside of the office. I went to a Fight Party at my friend's house once. I couldn't remember which Klitschko brother was fighting, so I asked. "Hey, which Klitschko brother is fighting tonight?" Every male in the room turned to look at me and a guy said "OMG. I'm impressed that you know there are two and they're brothers." Boom, I'm now inserted into a conversation. *shrugs*
H is really into lacrosse, so that's the only sports I watch.
Did you guys know that last weekend du won the NCAA championship making them the first ever west of the Mississippi? You didn't? Oh, OK, we can talk about something else, then.
Yes, but only because my husband follows it for some weird reason. I think the reason is that he used to play His college is also involved in a rugby game in Philly tomorrow, that he might go see in person, since there are sure to be tickets left at the last minute!
Post by Velar Fricative on May 29, 2015 11:46:00 GMT -5
So the Women's World Cup starts next Saturday. Are male employees all around the country going to be discuss this at work every day for the month that the tournament is taking place? No? I'm shocked!
And you all know how I feel about sports so this totally should be my cup of tea, but I'm annoyed by the premise of women having to show interest in general men's interests to be good co-workers.
In any case (anecdote alert), I was just talking hockey with a bunch of women at my office. Aside from only two guys, none of the other guys like sports.
Although, if I moved to a workplace that used cricket terms, I'm sure I'd be thoroughly lost.
I don't get this with sports references, but I do get it when I make movie/tv/cartoon references. For instance, we're replacing our 150 some learning systems with a single system for everyone in the company. I referred to it as the One Ring project. NO ONE got it. It's not even an obscure reference!
Post by cookiemdough on May 29, 2015 12:02:36 GMT -5
I don't really think a basics course would be helpful. Most sports talk that I am around is not based on that. It is based on specific players for fantasy purposes or draft picks or other stats or crappy calls. I don't see how "what is a touchdown for dummies" is really going to help.
I don't really think a basics course would be helpful. Most sports talk that I am around is not based on that. It is based on specific players for fantasy purposes or draft picks or other stats or crappy calls. I don't see how "what is a touchdown for dummies" is really going to help.
My H's fantasy teams are serious business. I told him that he needed to get in on the daily fantasy team where you can win money. Lo, he found an article about how this guy won a butt load of money and the guy credited HIS WIFE for telling him to do it. I was like - Un Huh. You Gone Listen to Me. LOL