We may also find out about Jon via Bran. In the books, Bran can see via the weirwood trees into the past and it looks like GoT is casting some things that might fit for that scene in the books. It is possible that Bran sees something that leads them to look further into this. Also I think there are some references to Lyanna's tomb and possible evidence there.
They can't have been married though because Rhaegar already had a wife, right? Oberyn's sister? Is there a culture in Westeros where you can have two?
Jon can't inherit shit unless he leaves the Night's Watch though.
My theory is that this inheritance shit is irrelevant and it's all about who can survive when the Night's King brings his happy ass down and fucks everyone up.
Well... Targaryens practiced polygamy in the past so there is some precedent for it or the possibility they married under the old gods vs the 7.
I agree about the Night's Watch and actual succession depending on who is left standing after stuff goes to shit.
I think people think they married and Jon is legitimate because of the Kingsguard being there protecting Lyanna and Jon. Really they should have been with Viserys because this was after the sack of King's Landing I think (so Rhaegar's other two kids were dead).
If we're talking about Martin drawing inspiration from various real histories, it's likely there will be no fucks given about the legitimacy of the marriage. In a situation where there aren't many strong obvious candidates or those candidates are abhorrent to the population, a tenuous tie is often good enough.
Everyone knows Rhaegar snatched up/ran off with Lyanna. Everyone knows Lyanna died. Everyone knows of Ned Stark, his honor, and his seemingly illegitimate baby. I don't think anyone has to prove anything beyond that, particularly if our choices are Lannister or Targaryen.
Agreed. I think it's going to be a combo of last man standing with a decent claim who has proven himself as a worthy leader. Defeating the WW will help that.
Agreed. I think it's going to be a combo of last man standing with a decent claim who has proven himself as a worthy leader. Defeating the WW will help that.
As Dany said, she will "break the wheel". I don't think Westeros post-winter will look anything like it does now - houses will be destroyed, key people will die, the "winner" won't need a claim other than their own worth. Dany will rule Essos, Tyrion will take Westeros, and Jon will be King of the North - each with their own dragon. That's my prediction today, anyway.
I don't think Jon will be king of the north and I don't think Tyrion will ever rule. I think Sansa holds the north in her own right and raises a new heir.
We may also find out about Jon via Bran. In the books, Bran can see via the weirwood trees into the past and it looks like GoT is casting some things that might fit for that scene in the books. It is possible that Bran sees something that leads them to look further into this. Also I think there are some references to Lyanna's tomb and possible evidence there.
If all the theories are right there's Rhaegar's harp, a marriage cloak, some sort of certificate, a dragon's egg, and more in there lol.
I don't think Jon will be king of the north and I don't think Tyrion will ever rule. I think Sansa holds the north in her own right and raises a new heir.
Well Tryion does seem like a long shot - lol. But the North is huge and empty. The Free Folk are moving in and they choose their own leaders. As we saw with the Night's Watch, Jon will do what he feels s right and he's duty-bound to do. If the Free Folk choose him..... I doubt he'll be "King of the North" to them, but Manse was "King Beyond the Wall", and I just KNOW the repition of "King Crow" is foreshadowing.
I still wonder if Arya is going to factor in as a dragon rider. There was that conversation with Tywin when she was in his service where she talked about Aegon and his sisterS, plural, being the ones who were dragon riders, and it felt a whole lot like foreshadowing.
If Jon is both Stark and Targaryen, and he, Dany and Arya are the three heads of the dragon, it would still be a family affair, just not an incestuous one.
I think Tyrion is going to be a great advisor to Dany and in the books they emphasize his book-knowledge of dragons quite a bit, so maybe he'll be the one to help her get them under control. But I'm skeptical that he would actually end up a dragon rider even if he is a Targaryen.
OTOH, if you go with the theory that you need to be a warg to control a dragon, then you're almost certainly looking at Starks: Jon, Arya and maybe Bran? That would be quite a bitter pill for Dany to swallow, to have brought her dragons into the world and protected them as they grew, only to have other people be the only ones who can truly control them as adults. But it might be better than the situation she's in now with dragons that she can't really leverage at all because she can't control them.
And, y'know, Bran has been told he's going to learn to fly. Maaaaaaaybe not just inside a raven?
I also wonder if Bran will be able to draw Jon into a weirwood vision via magic so that Jon and Ned can have a nice little last chat and Ned can make good on that promise that the next time he sees Jon, he'll tell him about his mother.
I still wonder if Arya is going to factor in as a dragon rider. There was that conversation with Tywin when she was in his service where she talked about Aegon and his sisterS, plural, being the ones who were dragon riders, and it felt a whole lot like foreshadowing.
If Jon is both Stark and Targaryen, and he, Dany and Arya are the three heads of the dragon, it would still be a family affair, just not an incestuous one.
I think Tyrion is going to be a great advisor to Dany and in the books they emphasize his book-knowledge of dragons quite a bit, so maybe he'll be the one to help her get them under control. But I'm skeptical that he would actually end up a dragon rider even if he is a Targaryen.
OTOH, if you go with the theory that you need to be a warg to control a dragon, then you're almost certainly looking at Starks: Jon, Arya and maybe Bran? That would be quite a bitter pill for Dany to swallow, to have brought her dragons into the world and protected them as they grew, only to have other people be the only ones who can truly control them as adults. But it might be better than the situation she's in now with dragons that she can't really leverage at all because she can't control them.
And, y'know, Bran has been told he's going to learn to fly. Maaaaaaaybe not just inside a raven?
I also wonder if Bran will be able to draw Jon into a weirwood vision via magic so that Jon and Ned can have a nice little last chat and Ned can make good on that promise that the next time he sees Jon, he'll tell him about his mother.
It won't be Arya. You need blood from one of the Dragonlord families of Valyria to ride a dragon. The Starks don't have any, so it won't be them.
The people we know have that blood are Dany and Jon. It has to be the right drop/gene as well, which is why Targaryens and other Dragonlords only intermarried between each other. Outside of the main line there are...
- The descendants of Rhaelle (Maester Aemon's niece/Aegon V's youngest child)... her grandson Stannis, great-granddaughter Shireen, and great-grandbastards of Robert.
- Tyrion is a possibility, per A World of Ice and Fire's hints that he could be a bastard of the Mad King.
All the others are people we have not heard of or who are descendants of people further back, like the Martells through the original Daenerys (but the middle son of Doran was burned alive by a dragon in the books).
"Aegon" is also a possibility if he is a Blackfyre or Brightflame, but since it looks like he's cut from the show I consider this unlikely.
Whatever happened to him in the show? He was at StormsEnd with Stannis and Melisandre, right? then what?
He's still rowing his boat. As we saw in the last episode, they don't row very fast there.
Question since you brought up Gendry- does Gendry know how to work Valerian steel? I know he's a blacksmith but I can't remember if that was ever mentioned.
Edited to add- Davos set him free so he wouldn't burn, and put him in a boat to row back to the mainland.
Tyrion and Sansa never consummated their marriage and now she's married to Ramsay which was, unfortunately, consummated. If Ramsay dies does she go back to being a Lannister or has that whole marriage become illegitimate because she's had a husband since then?
Maybe Tyrion and Sansa learn to get along and rule the north together.
Tyrion and Sansa never consummated their marriage and now she's married to Ramsay which was, unfortunately, consummated. If Ramsay dies does she go back to being a Lannister or has that whole marriage become illegitimate because she's had a husband since then?
Maybe Tyrion and Sansa learn to get along and rule the north together.
Well hopefully Ramsay meets a bitter and painful end and then Sansa can be a widow who can be free to marry someone else. Hopefully not Littlefinger.