Gun Email from my Aunt

[cville]

True, but not because it's a gun free for all. Because there's compulsory military service for all men and restrictive laws about carrying guns in public.

Eta: I note that while snopes points out that their gun related CRIME is very low, gun related DEATHS are not (lower than the U.S., but not the lowest evah).

Eta2: I posted my response just about the Switzerland stuff. Obvi everything else is a baseless crock of shit.

www.snopes.com/politics/guns/switzerland.asp

[gpw]

:::walks out:::

[lime]

Jun 6, 2015 16:13:27 GMT -5 @rennido said:

--
Germany established gun control in 1938: From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13
million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were
rounded up and exterminated.

The Holocaust could have been prevented with looser gun laws? 

[jln]

Where on earth do these people live that they feel so afraid and threatened that they need to keep a gun on their person? I just can't wrap my mind around being so afraid of your surroundings that carrying a deadly weapon is an answer.

[aurora]

Jun 6, 2015 18:23:58 GMT -5 lime said:

Jun 6, 2015 16:13:27 GMT -5 @rennido said:

--
Germany established gun control in 1938: From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13
million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were
rounded up and exterminated.

The Holocaust could have been prevented with looser gun laws? 

My eyes just about rolled out of my head.

I notice they didn't mention the absence of holocausts in many countries that do have strict gun control laws.

Hmm, maybe there are additional factors at play?

[penguingrrl]

Do people not realize that the government has far better weaponry than guns if they want to exert force and power? And that in the examples above there were a lot of forces at play other than gun control that led to mass exterminations? Are they really naive enough to think that if the US government was trying to get them their little handgun would help?

[Deleted]

And look at Iraq. No gun control. Fantastic.

Okay, maybe Iraq has gun control written down somewhere. Who knows? Doesn't matter. Some concerned civilians got some guns and it all seems to be going great over there.

[taratru]

The Holocaust happened because of gun control?!

Learn something new every day.

[emisi]

Aren't bullets in Switzerland super expensive and heavily regulated? So yeah, you can have a gun. You just don't have anything to shoot out.

[bina]

Jun 6, 2015 21:00:16 GMT -5 @hannymaren said:

And look at Iraq. No gun control. Fantastic.

Okay, maybe Iraq has gun control written down somewhere. Who knows? Doesn't matter. Some concerned civilians got some guns and it all seems to be going great over there.

Are you seriously comparing law abiding American citizens to the Taliban or ISIS?

[cville]

Jun 6, 2015 21:55:44 GMT -5 bina said:

Jun 6, 2015 21:00:16 GMT -5 @hannymaren said:

And look at Iraq. No gun control. Fantastic.

Okay, maybe Iraq has gun control written down somewhere. Who knows? Doesn't matter. Some concerned civilians got some guns and it all seems to be going great over there.

Are you seriously comparing law abiding American citizens to the Taliban or ISIS?

Oh for Pete's sake.

[bina]

I'm honestly asking, because that was my initial reaction to her comment, if I'm wrong or I interpreted it incorrectly I'd like to know.

[cville]

Jun 6, 2015 21:59:17 GMT -5 bina said:

I'm honestly asking, because that was my initial reaction to her comment, if I'm wrong or I interpreted it incorrectly I'd like to know.

Well then go with your second reaction. Or pehaps your 3rd or 4th.

She's using Iraq to point out the logical fallacy of the no gun control = lack of gun violence argument in the OP.

People who are in favor of gun control are not automatically unpatriotic asswipes who think your average American duck hunter is a hair away from ISIS in morality and action.

[mrsukyankee]

How about this - the UK has serious gun control, as in, no guns for citizens. Even our police force, other than a special force (which has unfortunately grown since our terrorist attack), doesn't use guns. And darn, we haven't been taken over by the gov't yet.

[sushi]

Um, those numbers aren't accurate.

[franklin]

Wow, that is umm ... special. DH is in LE and I hate when he (we) automatically get lumped into the guns for all category.

Sidebar - aren't there a few posters who have spouses that are in LE? If so, how do you handle things like this? What are your positions on guns, conceal and carry, etc? The majority of the Deputies DH works with are right leaning in regards to gun control. I want to avoid "groupthink" on this issue IRL - how do you (general) find a balance?

I was (am) really hesitant to post this because I know my knowledge and wit is severely lacking compared to posters on this board, but I want to be able to hear/learn from you (general you).

I might have to sign off for a bit to get bubblebutt's things ready to hangout with mummi, but I'll check back.

[bina]

Jun 6, 2015 22:07:15 GMT -5 cville said:

Jun 6, 2015 21:59:17 GMT -5 bina said:

I'm honestly asking, because that was my initial reaction to her comment, if I'm wrong or I interpreted it incorrectly I'd like to know.

Well then go with your second reaction. Or pehaps your 3rd or 4th.

She's using Iraq to point out the logical fallacy of the no gun control = lack of gun violence argument in the OP.

People who are in favor of gun control are not automatically unpatriotic asswipes who think your average American duck hunter is a hair away from ISIS in morality and action.

Ok, it didn't come off that way at all. Look, since we've been having problems communicating on the boards, and people getting upset, and not saying that they're offended until they blow up and deactivate I'm going to just say it. The way that was written was offensive. She could have cited any other gun control inadequate country like Mexico, where the laws are largely ignored and not been half as offensive.  

[kkfeb04]

Jun 6, 2015 18:42:56 GMT -5 jln said:

Where on earth do these people live that they feel so afraid and threatened that they need to keep a gun on their person? I just can't wrap my mind around being so afraid of your surroundings that carrying a deadly weapon is an answer.

Just last month there was a 74 year old man that shot a 29 year old man with two kids in the car because he was "scared".

m.lancasteronline.com/news/local/man-shot-in-jaw-in-warwick-township-parking-lot-after/article_f6b348f4-f3f2-11e4-bb3c-f7a8634354a5.html?mode=jqm

[Deleted]

Jun 6, 2015 22:07:15 GMT -5 cville said:

Jun 6, 2015 21:59:17 GMT -5 bina said:

I'm honestly asking, because that was my initial reaction to her comment, if I'm wrong or I interpreted it incorrectly I'd like to know.

Well then go with your second reaction. Or pehaps your 3rd or 4th.

She's using Iraq to point out the logical fallacy of the no gun control = lack of gun violence argument in the OP.

People who are in favor of gun control are not automatically unpatriotic asswipes who think your average American duck hunter is a hair away from ISIS in morality and action.

Thanks.
Yes I was using a ridiculous argument similar to the email where it was using the Holocaust to say we all need guns. If only the Jews had guns? Come on.

[Deleted]

Jun 6, 2015 21:55:44 GMT -5 bina said:

Jun 6, 2015 21:00:16 GMT -5 @hannymaren said:

And look at Iraq. No gun control. Fantastic.

Okay, maybe Iraq has gun control written down somewhere. Who knows? Doesn't matter. Some concerned civilians got some guns and it all seems to be going great over there.

Are you seriously comparing law abiding American citizens to the Taliban or ISIS?

And don't forget I'm Canadian.
(Sarcasm font)

[cville]

Jun 7, 2015 6:19:57 GMT -5 bina said:

Jun 6, 2015 22:07:15 GMT -5 cville said:

Well then go with your second reaction. Or pehaps your 3rd or 4th.

She's using Iraq to point out the logical fallacy of the no gun control = lack of gun violence argument in the OP.

People who are in favor of gun control are not automatically unpatriotic asswipes who think your average American duck hunter is a hair away from ISIS in morality and action.

Ok, it didn't come off that way at all. Look, since we've been having problems communicating on the boards, and people getting upset, and not saying that they're offended until they blow up and deactivate I'm going to just say it. The way that was written was offensive. She could have cited any other gun control inadequate country like Mexico, where the laws are largely ignored and not been half as offensive.  

...except she didn't say the Taliban and ISIS. You're the one who equated the people of Iraq to the Taliban and ISIS. Everyone could've gone and gotten offended at you on behalf of Iraqis who are victims of this breakdown in the law. See? There's all kinds of ways to force a breakdown in communication if you don't give other people the benefit of the doubt and perceive yourself alone to be the truest and most patriotic.

I'm glad you asked because it is good to clear the air. I'm just confused how you jumped immediately to a place of offense in the first place.

[bina]

I think i may have been feeling a little defensive of the whole gun issue after the way some of the threads here have been going, so i just read to much into what hannymaren said. I didn't catch the sarcasm. I did re-read it though and i realized its the last sentence where she uses concerned citizen. I've been seeing that used a lot in a negative way and it just pushed my buttons. And I jumped to the Taliban/ ISIS because those are the most widely publicized groups from that region that to really bad things with guns. I don't at all think you guys are unpatriotic, i honestly don't even think that of people who want to ban guns all together. I think real patriotism is taking an active interest in your government.

I'm sorry i misunderstood, and thank you for setting me straight.

Also Sorry its take me so long to get back to you, I had typed a response, then my son closed the page and deleted it. That's why I usually gbcn during nap or after bed time.

[southpoint]

Jun 7, 2015 7:35:11 GMT -5 kkfeb04 said:

Jun 6, 2015 18:42:56 GMT -5 jln said:

Where on earth do these people live that they feel so afraid and threatened that they need to keep a gun on their person? I just can't wrap my mind around being so afraid of your surroundings that carrying a deadly weapon is an answer.

Just last month there was a 74 year old man that shot a 29 year old man with two kids in the car because he was "scared".

m.lancasteronline.com/news/local/man-shot-in-jaw-in-warwick-township-parking-lot-after/article_f6b348f4-f3f2-11e4-bb3c-f7a8634354a5.html?mode=jqm

Recent lurker here. That's near my hometown. Frightening

[livinitup]

This is the exact logic that makes my FIL think that he should get a gun. He has no military training and is extremely clumsy. There is no doubt in my mind that he would shoot himself or one of us.

No doubt. None.

And wouldn't this make a better case for all citizens to arm themselves with machine guns and tanks? I mean, how do you really protect yourself against three men with machine guns? YOU need a machine gun.