Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince -- HP Book Club

[Nonny]

REMINDER: This thread is for Harry Potter veterans and first timers.

Please take care to use spoiler tags if you are revealing spoilers/foreshadowing of future books by using spoiler tags.
This is done by typing [ spoiler ] whatever you're spoiling [ / spoiler ], without the spaces.

DISCLAIMER: The questions for this book contain major plot spoilers. If you are a first time reader and you have not finished this book, you should really finish reading first, and then come back to the thread.


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1.  Dumbledore refuses the position of Minister of Magic. Why did he decline the position, and do you think he would have done more good for the wizarding community as the Minister than as headmaster of Hogwarts?

2.  On the way to Hogwarts, Harry sneaks into Malfoy’s compartment and gets caught by Malfoy. What does this behavior at this point in his development say about Harry?

3.  The theme of Harry as “Dumbledore’s man” is getting stronger. What is the significance of being Dumbledore’s man?

4.  Felix Felicis plays and important role in the plot of this book, from Harry winning it using the Prince's book, using it to get Slughorn's memory, and saving his friends the night he leaves to get the Horcrux. What does this say about Harry and how he choses to use this lucky potion? If you had some Felix Felicis for yourself, what would you use it for?

5.  Reflect on Dumbledore and Harry's relationship in the context of the night they go to retrieve the Horcrux: When collecting his invisibility cloak Harry says to his friends, “I’ll be fine, I’ll be with Dumbledore.” Later on, after Dumbledore has drunk the potion and Harry is trying to get him back to Hogsmeade, Dumbledore says, “I am not worried, Harry. I am with you.”

6.  What is the significance of the similarities and differences between Harry and Voldemort's childhoods? If Tom Riddle's mother hadn't made the choice to die, would he have grown up differently?

7.  Dumbledore has known for some time that Draco has been trying (albeit halfheartedly) to kill him. He has not acted, even though this has put him at risk, out of a desire to protect Draco. Even when his life is threatened he seems as much concerned to save Draco from becoming a killer as to save his own life. He sees Draco as someone who is redeemable.

Malfoy says, “You’re at my mercy….” Dumbledore replies, “No, Draco, it is my mercy, and not yours, that matters now.”

Is Dumbledore right in this attitude toward Draco, especially as his failure to act against Draco puts many other people at risk? What does the exchange about mercy imply to you?

8.  Dumbledore's death scene has him pleading with Snape, and Snape has, "... revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face." When you first read the book, what were your thoughts on what is going on here? Reminder to veterans - use spoiler tags.

9.  Were you surprised at the identity of the Half-Blood Prince? Who did you think it was going to be?


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Last up, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. The discussion will be Monday July 20, 2015, which is four weeks from today.

[Nonny]

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[msmerymac]

8. Dumbledore's death scene has him pleading with Snape, and Snape has, "... revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face." When you first read the book, what were your thoughts on what is going on here? Reminder to veterans - use spoiler tags.


These are my thoughts, not really a spoiler, but meh:

SPOILER: Click to show

My first thought was: Oh holy hell, they are both ridiculously skilled in legilimency and occlumency. There was some legit telepathy going on with Dumbledore trying to convince Snape that killing him would solve a ton of issues. 1) Dumbledore might have been on the way out from that potion, anyway, 2) Snape could fulfill the unbreakable vow he made with Narcissa to help Draco achieve his goal, and 3) Snape wouldn't have to blow his cover. Although Snape is ALL IN on the dark side now, since the OOTP believes him to be totally evil because of Harry's story, and that Dumbledore was wrong to trust him. So it puts Snape in even more danger, in a way, because he doesn't have an out.

[hopecounts]

1. Dumbledore refuses the position of Minister of Magic. Why did he decline the position, and do you think he would have done more good for the wizarding community as the Minister than as headmaster of Hogwarts?
No, I think he knew himself and he did more good by watching over the next generation and Hogwarts

2. On the way to Hogwarts, Harry sneaks into Malfoy’s compartment and gets caught by Malfoy. What does this behavior at this point in his development say about Harry?


3. The theme of Harry as “Dumbledore’s man” is getting stronger. What is the significance of being Dumbledore’s man?
He is firmly in the Anti-Voldy camp and is learning and trying (with varying degrees of success) the code and rules that Dumbledore has followed since Dumbledore figured himself out (not wanting to spoil anything so being vague)

4. Felix Felicis plays and important role in the plot of this book, from Harry winning it using the Prince's book, using it to get Slughorn's memory, and saving his friends the night he leaves to get the Horcrux. What does this say about Harry and how he choses to use this lucky potion? If you had some Felix Felicis for yourself, what would you use it for?
He is using it for good and to help further his attempt at beating Voldy, it reinforces his commmitment to the cause and that he is slowly growing up and maturing.

5. Reflect on Dumbledore and Harry's relationship in the context of the night they go to retrieve the Horcrux: When collecting his invisibility cloak Harry says to his friends, “I’ll be fine, I’ll be with Dumbledore.” Later on, after Dumbledore has drunk the potion and Harry is trying to get him back to Hogsmeade, Dumbledore says, “I am not worried, Harry. I am with you.”
they trust and respect eachother, each knows the other is fighting their corner and come what may will support one another.

6. What is the significance of the similarities and differences between Harry and Voldemort's childhoods? If Tom Riddle's mother hadn't made the choice to die, would he have grown up differently?
Both were raised in homes without love (Dursleys and the orphanage respectively) but Harry always had on some level the knowledge of just how much his mother loved him and that she died fighting for him which makes a profound difference.
Riddle knew his mother died and from the time he knew she chose to die knew she didn't love him enough to stay with him. Now Riddle was rotten to the core in my opinion so I don't know that having his mother who was likely bitter around would have changed much but it may have made the difference between him just being your average asshole and becoming 'the dark lord'

7. Dumbledore has known for some time that Draco has been trying (albeit halfheartedly) to kill him. He has not acted, even though this has put him at risk, out of a desire to protect Draco. Even when his life is threatened he seems as much concerned to save Draco from becoming a killer as to save his own life. He sees Draco as someone who is redeemable.

Malfoy says, “You’re at my mercy….” Dumbledore replies, “No, Draco, it is my mercy, and not yours, that matters now.”

Is Dumbledore right in this attitude toward Draco, especially as his failure to act against Draco puts many other people at risk? What does the exchange about mercy imply to you?

I think so, Malfoy is still figuring things out and there is a chance that if he doesn't take this final irreversible step that he can be brought back.
it's the old 'the shepherd shall rejoice more at the return of the 1 then in the remaining 99' from the bible. which also plays into the religious overtones in the series/books.
Which is why I have never gotten why certain people get all worked up about HP, as a Christian there is a LOT of allegory going on here and a lot of good conversations about good and evil/right and wrong, sacrifice/etc and how that relates to Christ/the Bible that can be had.


8. Dumbledore's death scene has him pleading with Snape, and Snape has, "... revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face." When you first read the book, what were your thoughts on what is going on here? Reminder to veterans - use spoiler tags.

SPOILER: Click to show

I bought it hook, line, and sinker. I really thought Snape was being a triple agent and was fulfilling Voldy's wishes

9. Were you surprised at the identity of the Half-Blood Prince? Who did you think it was going to be?
I was the first time I read it.

SPOILER: Click to show

Yes and no. I didn't expect it to be Snape but wasn't surprised when it was revealed. I really had no clue who it might be before the reveal.

[katfco]

1. Dumbledore refuses the position of Minister of Magic. Why did he decline the position, and do you think he would have done more good for the wizarding community as the Minister than as headmaster of Hogwarts?


I think the reason he wouldn't take the minister position is discussed in the seventh book

SPOILER: Click to show

because he doesn't trust himself with power

, so I think he did the best as headmaster. As such, he was influential without being seen as controlling. 


2. On the way to Hogwarts, Harry sneaks into Malfoy’s compartment and gets caught by Malfoy. What does this behavior at this point in his development say about Harry?



At this point, it shows Harry's obsession with Malfoy and using Malfoy as the target of his concern and rage at his situation. 

3. The theme of Harry as “Dumbledore’s man” is getting stronger. What is the significance of being Dumbledore’s man?


This theme demonstrates the kind of man Harry is choosing to be, so I think it's highly significant. 


4. Felix Felicis plays and important role in the plot of this book, from Harry winning it using the Prince's book, using it to get Slughorn's memory, and saving his friends the night he leaves to get the Horcrux. What does this say about Harry and how he choses to use this lucky potion? If you had some Felix Felicis for yourself, what would you use it for?


I would save it and take it a drop at a time every day I thought I might have a rough day at school. First day, full moon, every Monday...


5. Reflect on Dumbledore and Harry's relationship in the context of the night they go to retrieve the Horcrux: When collecting his invisibility cloak Harry says to his friends, “I’ll be fine, I’ll be with Dumbledore.” Later on, after Dumbledore has drunk the potion and Harry is trying to get him back to Hogsmeade, Dumbledore says, “I am not worried, Harry. I am with you.”



I think the most telling part is the trust Dumbledore shows in Harry and I hate that Rowling never really explored that more. I think a realistic relationship would have delved deeper and they would have spent more time together if Dumbledore really did care about Harry as much as he seemed to. Overall, though,--not sure if this is considered a spoiler, so just in case--

SPOILER: Click to show

Dumbledore knew he was going to die,

so he was demonstrating to Harry that be believed Harry was a competent young man. 

6. What is the significance of the similarities and differences between Harry and Voldemort's childhoods? If Tom Riddle's mother hadn't made the choice to die, would he have grown up differently?


I think if she had chosen a different path, she would have had to be a different person, so it's hard to tell. But at the very least, he would likely have grown up with magic and, hopefully, loved.


7. Dumbledore has known for some time that Draco has been trying (albeit halfheartedly) to kill him. He has not acted, even though this has put him at risk, out of a desire to protect Draco. Even when his life is threatened he seems as much concerned to save Draco from becoming a killer as to save his own life. He sees Draco as someone who is redeemable.



Malfoy says, “You’re at my mercy….” Dumbledore replies, “No, Draco, it is my mercy, and not yours, that matters now.”



Is Dumbledore right in this attitude toward Draco, especially as his failure to act against Draco puts many other people at risk? What does the exchange about mercy imply to you?



I'll have to think about this one. 

9. Were you surprised at the identity of the Half-Blood Prince? Who did you think it was going to be?


I was really surprised, largely because Snape had been just one of the professors for so long, I wasn't expecting Rowling to bring him into the limelight like that. 




Here's a question of mine: in book one, Professor Quirrell is introduced as being the DODA professor, as if he's been there more than one year. But in this book, the job is described as being cursed and no one has held it more than a year. Do you think this was an inconsistency?

[Nonny]

Jun 22, 2015 10:50:45 GMT -5 katfco said:

Here's a question of mine: in book one, Professor Quirrell is introduced as being the DODA professor, as if he's been there more than one year. But in this book, the job is described as being cursed and no one has held it more than a year. Do you think this was an inconsistency?

If you read the Wikis on this, Quirrell had be the muggle studies professor, so he was new to the DODA position, but not new to the school.

[katfco]

Jun 22, 2015 12:02:18 GMT -5 Nonny said:

Jun 22, 2015 10:50:45 GMT -5 katfco said:

Here's a question of mine: in book one, Professor Quirrell is introduced as being the DODA professor, as if he's been there more than one year. But in this book, the job is described as being cursed and no one has held it more than a year. Do you think this was an inconsistency?

If you read the Wikis on this, Quirrell had be the muggle studies professor, so he was new to the DODA position, but not new to the school.

Thanks. 

[rex]

1. Dumbledore refuses the position of Minister of Magic. Why did he decline the position, and do you think he would have done more good for the wizarding community as the Minister than as headmaster of Hogwarts?
Dumbledore knows where his power is useful, and knows better than to put himself in a position where he may stop working for the good. 


2. On the way to Hogwarts, Harry sneaks into Malfoy’s compartment and gets caught by Malfoy. What does this behavior at this point in his development say about Harry?
he is willing to do whatever it takes to get to voldemort. 


3. The theme of Harry as “Dumbledore’s man” is getting stronger. What is the significance of being Dumbledore’s man?
with dumbledore = against voldemort, fully. harry is committed at this point. 


4. Felix Felicis plays and important role in the plot of this book, from Harry winning it using the Prince's book, using it to get Slughorn's memory, and saving his friends the night he leaves to get the Horcrux. What does this say about Harry and how he choses to use this lucky potion? If you had some Felix Felicis for yourself, what would you use it for?
harry is actually growing up in this book. he has plenty of opportunities to use the felix for silly things, but he is very focused and uses it to his advantage wisely. i know without a doubt if harry had any felix previously he would not have used it wisely. 


5. Reflect on Dumbledore and Harry's relationship in the context of the night they go to retrieve the Horcrux: When collecting his invisibility cloak Harry says to his friends, “I’ll be fine, I’ll be with Dumbledore.” Later on, after Dumbledore has drunk the potion and Harry is trying to get him back to Hogsmeade, Dumbledore says, “I am not worried, Harry. I am with you.”
a) dumbledore trusts harry (he has to), i think this might have to do with harry's "destiny" though. harry really is the one who can save them all and dumbledore knows this. 


6. What is the significance of the similarities and differences between Harry and Voldemort's childhoods? If Tom Riddle's mother hadn't made the choice to die, would he have grown up differently?
i don't really think voldy would have turned out differently. his mother was...insane. i think tom riddle is who he is and i don't think who he was raised by really mattered. 


7. Dumbledore has known for some time that Draco has been trying (albeit halfheartedly) to kill him. He has not acted, even though this has put him at risk, out of a desire to protect Draco. Even when his life is threatened he seems as much concerned to save Draco from becoming a killer as to save his own life. He sees Draco as someone who is redeemable.



Malfoy says, “You’re at my mercy….” Dumbledore replies, “No, Draco, it is my mercy, and not yours, that matters now.”



Is Dumbledore right in this attitude toward Draco, especially as his failure to act against Draco puts many other people at risk? What does the exchange about mercy imply to you?
i think dumbledore is right. draco is lost and confused, but as dumbledore knows, draco isn't a killer-he doesn't much have a choice to be with voldemort, but he is good. mercy is not just allowing someone to be pardoned, dumbledore protects draco's goodness, he saves him essentially. 


8. Dumbledore's death scene has him pleading with Snape, and Snape has, "... revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face." When you first read the book, what were your thoughts on what is going on here? Reminder to veterans - use spoiler tags.
when i was reading this scene i was SOBBING. i really truly saw snape as evil and could not believe this was happening. i assumed that there was some dark past between the two that we didn't know (as we did not yet know the full story of snape) and so snape was seeking revenge. 


9. Were you surprised at the identity of the Half-Blood Prince? Who did you think it was going to be?
i knew immediately it was snape. there was no surprise to me. old book in a potions closet with tiny handwriting and secrets? easy to tell. 

[revjen]

1. As he said why he declined in the series already, I'll leave him to answer that for himself. As to whether or not he would have done more good for the wizarding community as the Minister, I'm not sure. The Wizarding community would have been forewarned about Voldemort's return. But he gave students the ability and the opportunity to protect themselves and loved ones that another headmaster might not have.

2. He still has that reckless streak.

3.

4. He could have chosen to use it for anything but he waited until he had a real need. I think it showed wisdom and patience on his part. I'm not sure I could have waited. If I had Felix Felicis, I'd probably use it to win the lottery. But a really big one. )

5. I think Dumbledore recognized just how strong Harry was. Emotionally, not magically.

6. I think it all comes down to choices. That's what made Harry and Voldemort follow different paths: their choices. I don't think Voldemort would have been different at all.

7. Isn't that what made Dumbledore the person he was? The ability to see a thread of good in a truly despicable act.

8. I was horrified but I don't remember being truly surprised.

9. I thought it was going to be a female but someone unknown to us as yet.

[msmerymac]

Jun 22, 2015 19:26:01 GMT -5 @vicmo said:

I forgot how, while Harry is finally maturing, he's still his old impulsive self throughout much of the book. Hey, I'll just abandon everything and lurk outside the Room of Requirement! Hey, I'll just pop into Draco's train car! Hey, I'll just use handwritten instructions and random spells I read in a margin! OMG HARRY STAHP. My H and I have talked about how Griffindor are brave but often too impulsive for their own good - uh, yep.

Yeah, every house has a downside. Like Slytherin's cunning translates to "being seduced by dark magic" pretty often. That's^ Gryffindor's, for sure. Much like Harry forgetting about the magic Sirius mirror and running off to Umbridge's office, followed by running off to the actual ministry. Yup. 

[katfco]

Jun 22, 2015 20:18:12 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Jun 22, 2015 19:26:01 GMT -5 @vicmo said:

I forgot how, while Harry is finally maturing, he's still his old impulsive self throughout much of the book. Hey, I'll just abandon everything and lurk outside the Room of Requirement! Hey, I'll just pop into Draco's train car! Hey, I'll just use handwritten instructions and random spells I read in a margin! OMG HARRY STAHP. My H and I have talked about how Griffindor are brave but often too impulsive for their own good - uh, yep.

Yeah, every house has a downside. Like Slytherin's cunning translates to "being seduced by dark magic" pretty often. That's^ Gryffindor's, for sure. Much like Harry forgetting about the magic Sirius mirror and running off to Umbridge's office, followed by running off to the actual ministry. Yup. 

Actually, he didn't know about the mirror. When Sirius gave it to him, Harry took it without looking at it, knowing he'd never use it. He didn't know what it was until after Sirius died. 

[katfco]

Jun 22, 2015 20:54:27 GMT -5 @vicmo said:

Jun 22, 2015 20:27:05 GMT -5 katfco said:

Actually, he didn't know about the mirror. When Sirius gave it to him, Harry took it without looking at it, knowing he'd never use it. He didn't know what it was until after Sirius died. 

Didn't Sirius tell him it was a way to get in touch with each other? I might be misremembering. Either way, he jumped pretty quickly from "huh, danger?" to "let's ride these invisible horses!"

He did, but Harry knew he'd never use it because he was afraid of getting Sirius in trouble, so I think the implication is that he just put it out of his mind. He never knew what it really was until it was too late. 

[aurora]

Jun 22, 2015 10:44:54 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

6. What is the significance of the similarities and differences between Harry and Voldemort's childhoods? If Tom Riddle's mother hadn't made the choice to die, would he have grown up differently?
Both were raised in homes without love (Dursleys and the orphanage respectively) but Harry always had on some level the knowledge of just how much his mother loved him and that she died fighting for him which makes a profound difference.
Riddle knew his mother died and from the time he knew she chose to die knew she didn't love him enough to stay with him. Now Riddle was rotten to the core in my opinion so I don't know that having his mother who was likely bitter around would have changed much but it may have made the difference between him just being your average asshole and becoming 'the dark lord'

But Harry thought his mom died in a car crash (i.e., not protecting him) until he was 11 and Hagrid showed up to take him to Hogwarts. I don't remember the actual timeline, but he didn't get the full story until even later (is it book 6?)

Jun 22, 2015 10:44:54 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

7. Dumbledore has known for some time that Draco has been trying (albeit halfheartedly) to kill him. He has not acted, even though this has put him at risk, out of a desire to protect Draco. Even when his life is threatened he seems as much concerned to save Draco from becoming a killer as to save his own life. He sees Draco as someone who is redeemable.

Malfoy says, “You’re at my mercy….” Dumbledore replies, “No, Draco, it is my mercy, and not yours, that matters now.”

Is Dumbledore right in this attitude toward Draco, especially as his failure to act against Draco puts many other people at risk? What does the exchange about mercy imply to you?

I think so, Malfoy is still figuring things out and there is a chance that if he doesn't take this final irreversible step that he can be brought back.
it's the old 'the shepherd shall rejoice more at the return of the 1 then in the remaining 99' from the bible. which also plays into the religious overtones in the series/books.
Which is why I have never gotten why certain people get all worked up about HP, as a Christian there is a LOT of allegory going on here and a lot of good conversations about good and evil/right and wrong, sacrifice/etc and how that relates to Christ/the Bible that can be had.

This is really a great point about the religion and Christianity in particular. I remember before book 7 came out reading an interview in which Rowling expressed her confusion over Christians arguing the books are anti-religion. OK, maybe if you do a purely literal read and you believe that witchcraft is the devil's work, but there is certainly a lot of Christian allegory.

SPOILER: Click to show

I have to wonder what those same people thought when finishing book 7...probably that she is the devil herself for setting up Harry as a Jesus-like figure!

[aurora]

Jun 22, 2015 19:29:51 GMT -5 @vicmo said:

I was really torn the first time I read this book on Snape's innocence / guilt. I just COULD NOT believe that Dumbledore would have been THAT wrong, so I figured we'd find out something that would turn it all around. I mean, he's so CLEARLY evil that there had to be SOMETHING for Dumbledore to believe him all these years. Dumbledore was overly trusting but he wasn't an idiot.

Also I read the "Snape kills Dumbledore, Page XX" spoiler on livejournal (lol) the day before this book came out and I am still mad about it.

I admit I was really torn, too. The way the scene was written, I thought there was something fishy, but how could Snape kill Dumbledore without being evil? I spent a lot of time thinking about that before book 7 came out, and going back and forth between believing he was good and that he was evil.

[aurora]

Jun 22, 2015 12:32:10 GMT -5 rex said:

...
3. The theme of Harry as “Dumbledore’s man” is getting stronger. What is the significance of being Dumbledore’s man?
with dumbledore = against voldemort, fully. harry is committed at this point. 
...

I do think it's a little more complex than this, though. I mean, Scrimgeour and Fudge and a lot of other people are anti-Voldy, but also not on Dumbledore's team. So, I think it has to do with Harry's entire worldview being shaped by Dumbledore's idealism, not the more practical/political side.

[aurora]

Jun 22, 2015 21:00:45 GMT -5 katfco said:

Jun 22, 2015 20:54:27 GMT -5 @vicmo said:

Didn't Sirius tell him it was a way to get in touch with each other? I might be misremembering. Either way, he jumped pretty quickly from "huh, danger?" to "let's ride these invisible horses!"

He did, but Harry knew he'd never use it because he was afraid of getting Sirius in trouble, so I think the implication is that he just put it out of his mind. He never knew what it really was until it was too late. 

Yeah, he had completely forgotten about it, and had never even opened the package.

I think the impulsive jump from danger! to riding invisible horses is within Harry's extraordinarily impulsive personality. He definitely gets himself into trouble with this, on multiple occasions, not just this one. (@vicmo)

[aurora]

Jun 22, 2015 17:59:12 GMT -5 revjen said:

...

6. I think it all comes down to choices. That's what made Harry and Voldemort follow different paths: their choices. I don't think Voldemort would have been different at all.

...

But choices are shaped by personality, and isn't there some nurture in personality development (not just nature)? I'm not a parent, but doesn't science tell us that it's really important for children to be held with skin touching during infancy? So even though Harry doesn't remember his parents consciously, his cognitive development in that first year must have been shaped by being in a loving household, whereas Voldemort was in an orphanage from the day he was born and probably had less direct care.

I'm not saying that their nature wouldn't also have played a role, just that I don't think we can know for sure that Voldemort would have turned out as he did if his mother had lived.

[revjen]

Jun 23, 2015 13:29:29 GMT -5 aurora said:

Jun 22, 2015 17:59:12 GMT -5 revjen said:

...

6. I think it all comes down to choices. That's what made Harry and Voldemort follow different paths: their choices. I don't think Voldemort would have been different at all.

...

But choices are shaped by personality, and isn't there some nurture in personality development (not just nature)? I'm not a parent, but doesn't science tell us that it's really important for children to be held with skin touching during infancy? So even though Harry doesn't remember his parents consciously, his cognitive development in that first year must have been shaped by being in a loving household, whereas Voldemort was in an orphanage from the day he was born and probably had less direct care.

I'm not saying that their nature wouldn't also have played a role, just that I don't think we can know for sure that Voldemort would have turned out as he did if his mother had lived.

I disagree. There are plenty of people who grow up in loving homes that turn into serial killers. He showed that criminal behavior and lack of empathy early on. With a psychopathic/sociopathic bent, he would have developed exactly how he did regardless of his surroundings.

[hopecounts]

Jun 23, 2015 13:18:25 GMT -5 aurora said:

Jun 22, 2015 10:44:54 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

6. What is the significance of the similarities and differences between Harry and Voldemort's childhoods? If Tom Riddle's mother hadn't made the choice to die, would he have grown up differently?
Both were raised in homes without love (Dursleys and the orphanage respectively) but Harry always had on some level the knowledge of just how much his mother loved him and that she died fighting for him which makes a profound difference.
Riddle knew his mother died and from the time he knew she chose to die knew she didn't love him enough to stay with him. Now Riddle was rotten to the core in my opinion so I don't know that having his mother who was likely bitter around would have changed much but it may have made the difference between him just being your average asshole and becoming 'the dark lord'

But Harry thought his mom died in a car crash (i.e., not protecting him) until he was 11 and Hagrid showed up to take him to Hogwarts. I don't remember the actual timeline, but he didn't get the full story until even later (is it book 6?)

Jun 22, 2015 10:44:54 GMT -5 hopecounts said:

7. Dumbledore has known for some time that Draco has been trying (albeit halfheartedly) to kill him. He has not acted, even though this has put him at risk, out of a desire to protect Draco. Even when his life is threatened he seems as much concerned to save Draco from becoming a killer as to save his own life. He sees Draco as someone who is redeemable.

Malfoy says, “You’re at my mercy….” Dumbledore replies, “No, Draco, it is my mercy, and not yours, that matters now.”

Is Dumbledore right in this attitude toward Draco, especially as his failure to act against Draco puts many other people at risk? What does the exchange about mercy imply to you?

I think so, Malfoy is still figuring things out and there is a chance that if he doesn't take this final irreversible step that he can be brought back.
it's the old 'the shepherd shall rejoice more at the return of the 1 then in the remaining 99' from the bible. which also plays into the religious overtones in the series/books.
Which is why I have never gotten why certain people get all worked up about HP, as a Christian there is a LOT of allegory going on here and a lot of good conversations about good and evil/right and wrong, sacrifice/etc and how that relates to Christ/the Bible that can be had.

This is really a great point about the religion and Christianity in particular. I remember before book 7 came out reading an interview in which Rowling expressed her confusion over Christians arguing the books are anti-religion. OK, maybe if you do a purely literal read and you believe that witchcraft is the devil's work, but there is certainly a lot of Christian allegory.

SPOILER: Click to show

I have to wonder what those same people thought when finishing book 7...probably that she is the devil herself for setting up Harry as a Jesus-like figure!

That's why I said on some level.
He was old enough to form memories and remember he dreams of a flying motorcycle in book one (hagrid flying him to the Dursley's presumably)
I don't think he consciously knew how she died but that in his heart/soul/primal memory he remembered that love and knew how much she loved and valued him.
Most psychs will tell you our personalities are formed in the first 5 yrs.
there is no way seeing her killed didn't stick with him on some level and influence how he felt.

[Nonny]

1. Dumbledore refuses the position of Minister of Magic. Why did he decline the position, and do you think he would have done more good for the wizarding community as the Minister than as headmaster of Hogwarts?

I think that Dumbledore was actually too device of a "political" figure to be effective as MoM, but we also find out more in book 7 on why he decline.  But I think by being at Hogwarts we was able to better work with the Order of the Phoenix to keep tabs on things.  As MoM, he wouldn't have been able to keep tabs on Snape, or the likes of Mundungus. 

2. On the way to Hogwarts, Harry sneaks into Malfoy’s compartment and gets caught by Malfoy. What does this behavior at this point in his development say about Harry?

Once again Harry was being impulsive and dumb!  He was right about Malfoy all along, but his tunnel vision on the matter wasn't doing him any favors.

3. The theme of Harry as “Dumbledore’s man” is getting stronger. What is the significance of being Dumbledore’s man?

I think it kind of represents Harry coming into his own, by being like Dumbledore as a man who always speaks the truth even when unpopular.

4. Felix Felicis plays and important role in the plot of this book, from Harry winning it using the Prince's book, using it to get Slughorn's memory, and saving his friends the night he leaves to get the Horcrux. What does this say about Harry and how he choses to use this lucky potion? If you had some Felix Felicis for yourself, what would you use it for?

As much as I dislike Ron, I do like that Harry faked him out and basically did Placebo Potion to him to give him confidence.  I also like that he saved the rest and thought to use it to keep his friends safe.  His judicious use of FF is actually one of the few times when Harry was thoughtful and acting in a collected and rational manner, and not just being an impulsive teenager.  I think it's a turning point in his maturity.

I'd probably take the Slughorn approach and take it on a random day, and just let that day evolve perfectly and naturally on it's own.  From Harry's description it basically guides you down the right path, and I'd like to see where that right path is when I have no end goal in mind.

5. Reflect on Dumbledore and Harry's relationship in the context of the night they go to retrieve the Horcrux: When collecting his invisibility cloak Harry says to his friends, “I’ll be fine, I’ll be with Dumbledore.” Later on, after Dumbledore has drunk the potion and Harry is trying to get him back to Hogsmeade, Dumbledore says, “I am not worried, Harry. I am with you.”

Mutual trust. I think it sets Harry up for everything that happens in book 7.

6. What is the significance of the similarities and differences between Harry and Voldemort's childhoods? If Tom Riddle's mother hadn't made the choice to die, would he have grown up differently?

Tom/Voldy was basically screwed from the outset IMO, doomed because of how his mother tricked and potioned Tom Sr. into being with her.  We already know that her family was a bunch of muggle haters, so I think that if he'd grown up under her influence (which really would have been his uncle and grandfather's influence) he would have turned out probably even more abused (for being a half blood) and been just as angry and power hungry as before.  If anything, it might have made him more dangerous. 

7. Dumbledore has known for some time that Draco has been trying (albeit halfheartedly) to kill him. He has not acted, even though this has put him at risk, out of a desire to protect Draco. Even when his life is threatened he seems as much concerned to save Draco from becoming a killer as to save his own life. He sees Draco as someone who is redeemable.

Malfoy says, “You’re at my mercy….” Dumbledore replies, “No, Draco, it is my mercy, and not yours, that matters now.”

Is Dumbledore right in this attitude toward Draco, especially as his failure to act against Draco puts many other people at risk? What does the exchange about mercy imply to you?

Dumbledore definitely didn't want Draco to turn into a killer, but I think he also knew Draco needed to come to the choice NOT to kill him on his own. 

8. Dumbledore's death scene has him pleading with Snape, and Snape has, "... revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face." When you first read the book, what were your thoughts on what is going on here? Reminder to veterans - use spoiler tags.

SPOILER: Click to show

I knew that there had to be something else going on with Dumbledore and Snape, and figured that if Dumbledore trusted him there had to be a reason.  I had absolutely no clue what that reason was though, and even on re-reads I'm thoroughly impressed how subtle JKR was here in this scene.  There is just an ever so slight clue that Dumbledore's pleading was to get Snape to do something he didn't want to do, and just enough ambiguity that you'd just as easily feel as betrayed and confused as Harry.

9. Were you surprised at the identity of the Half-Blood Prince? Who did you think it was going to be?
I was surprised, and in retrospect (both with the first read and each re-read) it seems so obvious that it was going to be Snape.  I never bought Hermione's idea that it would be a girl, but I did think it would be some new character that we hadn't seen yet. 

[katfco]

Jun 23, 2015 19:29:13 GMT -5 Nonny said:

4. Felix Felicis plays and important role in the plot of this book, from Harry winning it using the Prince's book, using it to get Slughorn's memory, and saving his friends the night he leaves to get the Horcrux. What does this say about Harry and how he choses to use this lucky potion? If you had some Felix Felicis for yourself, what would you use it for?

As much as I dislike Ron, I do like that Harry faked him out and basically did Placebo Potion to him to give him confidence.  I also like that he saved the rest and thought to use it to keep his friends safe.  His judicious use of FF is actually one of the few times when Harry was thoughtful and acting in a collected and rational manner, and not just being an impulsive teenager.  I think it's a turning point in his maturity.

Why do you dislike Ron? 

[Nonny]

Jun 23, 2015 20:45:11 GMT -5 katfco said:

Jun 23, 2015 19:29:13 GMT -5 Nonny said:

4. Felix Felicis plays and important role in the plot of this book, from Harry winning it using the Prince's book, using it to get Slughorn's memory, and saving his friends the night he leaves to get the Horcrux. What does this say about Harry and how he choses to use this lucky potion? If you had some Felix Felicis for yourself, what would you use it for?

As much as I dislike Ron, I do like that Harry faked him out and basically did Placebo Potion to him to give him confidence.  I also like that he saved the rest and thought to use it to keep his friends safe.  His judicious use of FF is actually one of the few times when Harry was thoughtful and acting in a collected and rational manner, and not just being an impulsive teenager.  I think it's a turning point in his maturity.

Why do you dislike Ron? 

I think he's kind of a jerk, not a particularly good friend, and kind of an overall bland person (character) who just gloms on to those around him.  I've disliked him from book 1, he's just not a character I can relate to, and I'd be friends probably with his entire family except for him and Percy. 

Spoilers for book 7

SPOILER: Click to show

It also annoys the ever loving hell out of me that he and Hermione become a couple, because she is just way to good for him.  In my mind in the 11 years later epilogue, I think they'd be divorced, because I don't see how she could put up with his shit for so long.  Alternately, I re-write the ending in my head so that Fred lives and Hermione marries him, and Ron dies.

[gibbinator]

Hi, this thread just alerted me that this board existed so, hello, I'm jumping in here.

1.  Dumbledore refuses the position of Minister of Magic. Why did he decline the position, and do you think he would have done more good for the wizarding community as the Minister than as headmaster of Hogwarts?
- I never really saw dumbledore as politician material. He was able to do more good behind the scenes as headmaster and as part of the wizengamot.

2.  On the way to Hogwarts, Harry sneaks into Malfoy’s compartment and gets caught by Malfoy. What does this behavior at this point in his development say about Harry?
- for me this behaviour pretty much exemplifies all of Harry's more negative personality traits - stubbornness, recklessness, blind obsession. Obviously these traits do him some good throughout the series, but this particular scene just made me think "ugh Harry. What are you thinking?"

3.  The theme of Harry as “Dumbledore’s man” is getting stronger. What is the significance of being Dumbledore’s man?
- It means he believes that Dumbledore is in the right and he trusts him to have the best interests of Harry, his friends, the students and the greater wizarding community in mind. Harry supports Dumbledore (despite his secretive tendencies) even if he has doubts.

4.  Felix Felicis plays and important role in the plot of this book, from Harry winning it using the Prince's book, using it to get Slughorn's memory, and saving his friends the night he leaves to get the Horcrux. What does this say about Harry and how he choses to use this lucky potion? If you had some Felix Felicis for yourself, what would you use it for?
- it mainly shows that, when it counts, Harry is not selfish. He could have used the potion earlier in the story to help along his love life but he chose to use it in the fight against Voldemort and to keep others safe.

SPOILER: Click to show

I feel like this adds to the foreshadowing of his sacrifice in the 7th book. Harry always puts himself in harms way to save others.

5.  Reflect on Dumbledore and Harry's relationship in the context of the night they go to retrieve the Horcrux: When collecting his invisibility cloak Harry says to his friends, “I’ll be fine, I’ll be with Dumbledore.” Later on, after Dumbledore has drunk the potion and Harry is trying to get him back to Hogsmeade, Dumbledore says, “I am not worried, Harry. I am with you.”
- Honestly, to me, this switch in roles makes it seem like Dumbledore is giving up the reins. Like a father turning over the family business to his son. Dumbledore is saying he has faith in Harry's ability to lead the good fight when Dumbledore dies.

6.  What is the significance of the similarities and differences between Harry and Voldemort's childhoods? If Tom Riddle's mother hadn't made the choice to die, would he have grown up differently?
- I think it's mostly an interesting coincidence that they have similar childhoods. It shows how ingrained personality can be. Nature over nurture. If Harry had been abandoned in an orphanage surely he would not have taken the same path. It shows that Tom was a bad seed from start and he would likely have turned out a dark wizard in any childhood environment.

7.  Dumbledore has known for some time that Draco has been trying (albeit halfheartedly) to kill him. He has not acted, even though this has put him at risk, out of a desire to protect Draco. Even when his life is threatened he seems as much concerned to save Draco from becoming a killer as to save his own life. He sees Draco as someone who is redeemable.

Malfoy says, “You’re at my mercy….” Dumbledore replies, “No, Draco, it is my mercy, and not yours, that matters now.”

Is Dumbledore right in this attitude toward Draco, especially as his failure to act against Draco puts many other people at risk? What does the exchange about mercy imply to you?
- He is right. Throughout the series leading up to thus point, Malfoy has proven that while he has been raised to believe what he's been told about the greatness of wizards/purebloods, he doesn't have the cold heart of a murderer. He is still somewhat an innocent. While he was originally proud to take on the task of killing Dumbledore, within months he is motivated by fear for himself and his family - he is learning what it truly means to be under Voldemorts rule.

8.  Dumbledore's death scene has him pleading with Snape, and Snape has, "... revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face." When you first read the book, what were your thoughts on what is going on here? Reminder to veterans - use spoiler tags.
- I was mostly just upset by Snape's showing his true allegiance to voldemort and finally being able to show it on his face.

SPOILER: Click to show

I was so upset because shape had always been one of my favourite characters. I thought this was a horrible plot twist. I loved learning the truth in book 7 - rereading the series I appreciate how well she wrote this scene).

9.  Were you surprised at the identity of the Half-Blood Prince? Who did you think it was going to be?
- yes. I assumed it would turn out to be Tom Riddles book.

[aurora]

Welcome! We love having new people come to talk books with us, although there are few enough posters that sometimes you have to be patient waiting for a reply.

I like your thoughts here, and especially when contrasted with the bad side of Harry's personality in the Draco/train/eavesdropping example:

Jun 24, 2015 7:09:17 GMT -5 gibbinator said:

...
4.  Felix Felicis plays and important role in the plot of this book, from Harry winning it using the Prince's book, using it to get Slughorn's memory, and saving his friends the night he leaves to get the Horcrux. What does this say about Harry and how he choses to use this lucky potion? If you had some Felix Felicis for yourself, what would you use it for?
- it mainly shows that, when it counts, Harry is not selfish. He could have used the potion earlier in the story to help along his love life but he chose to use it in the fight against Voldemort and to keep others safe....

Harry does exhibit a lot of selflessness, and has done so maybe more than I would expect out of a typical teenager all through the series. He really can't bear to have anyone in harm's way on his behalf. I wonder if some of that stems from losing his parents and knowing the pain of being a survivor?

[aurora]

Jun 23, 2015 15:00:45 GMT -5 revjen said:

Jun 23, 2015 13:29:29 GMT -5 aurora said:

But choices are shaped by personality, and isn't there some nurture in personality development (not just nature)? I'm not a parent, but doesn't science tell us that it's really important for children to be held with skin touching during infancy? So even though Harry doesn't remember his parents consciously, his cognitive development in that first year must have been shaped by being in a loving household, whereas Voldemort was in an orphanage from the day he was born and probably had less direct care.

I'm not saying that their nature wouldn't also have played a role, just that I don't think we can know for sure that Voldemort would have turned out as he did if his mother had lived.

I disagree. There are plenty of people who grow up in loving homes that turn into serial killers. He showed that criminal behavior and lack of empathy early on. With a psychopathic/sociopathic bent, he would have developed exactly how he did regardless of his surroundings.

I guess I don't get this. I mean, I definitely think Voldemort has a personality that trends toward evil (and maybe mental illness), so I'm not saying he and Harry would have turned out equal if he'd had a year of mother's/father's love. I just think we don't have enough information to know for sure that he would have turned out to be the most evil wizard ever if things had been different, because both nature and nurture matter to some degree.