Black America should stop forgiving white racists

[meshaliuknits]

Jun 22, 2015 14:57:58 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

I feel like the kneejerk call for forgiveness is a throwback to times when that's all you could do because you had no other options. So you forgave and just moved on with life.

My first thought is that it's because Christians are supposed to forgive sins committed against them. But yours makes sense too.

[ijack]

I will admit to not being religious at all, and I feel like usually forgiveness comes from religion, but I didn't get it when they said that at all. Like this man just murdered your mom in cold blood and you really feel forgiveness in your heart?

[downtoearth]

Jun 22, 2015 15:02:07 GMT -5 ijack said:

I will admit to not being religious at all, and I feel like usually forgiveness comes from religion, but I didn't get it when they said that at all. Like this man just murdered your mom in cold blood and you really feel forgiveness in your heart?

I thought this also.  I didn't see it as submissive, but I think this article is eye opening.  I thought it came from more of a Christian POV and how their church leader would want them to respond, but I also didn't get it.  Murdered your family member in order to start a race war AT THEIR OWN CHURCH, during bible study and you can forgive the dude by the bond hearing the next day?! Nope.  Christ would have stewed for a few days first, wouldn't he?!

But I'm not them and I'm not Christian, so I also can't really judge, just know I'm not as forgiving.

[lissaholly]

This is an interesting article. I think it also plays into the burden of perfect victims that the media perpetuates. I give the victims' families the highest respect for being such better people, in light of such hatred. I also hope that they are forgiving because a that is what they need, not because that is what they need to do. Much like I fear for women in conservative religions. I hope it is bringing them peace and it is not done just to keep the peace.

[pixy0stix]

Jun 22, 2015 15:10:59 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

 Christ would have stewed for a few days first, wouldn't he?!

Christ got angry at a fig tree and smote it. He felt badly afterward, but it took him a bit to cool off.

[5thofjuly]

Jun 22, 2015 15:02:07 GMT -5 ijack said:

I will admit to not being religious at all, and I feel like usually forgiveness comes from religion, but I didn't get it when they said that at all. Like this man just murdered your mom in cold blood and you really feel forgiveness in your heart?

This. People are still in shock 72 hours after something this horrible occurs. Perhaps they really do feel this way, but I don't think I'd have any idea how I felt about almost anything (except grief) at that point. It seems like that's just what you're supposed to have to do at that point, which is a gross form of social pressure.

[eponinepontmercy]

This person doesn't need, want, or deserve their forgiveness.  

But, if they didn't say that, and then said how they probably really feel, they'd be dismissed ans angry black people.

[2curlydogs]

Jun 22, 2015 15:12:58 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jun 22, 2015 15:10:59 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

 Christ would have stewed for a few days first, wouldn't he?!

Christ got angry at a fig tree and smote it. He felt badly afterward, but it took him a bit to cool off.

For not having figs when it wasn't fig season. 

Pretty sure if someone had killed his mother in front of him we'd have a different lesson than love thine enemy.

[pixy0stix]

Jun 22, 2015 15:27:12 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

Jun 22, 2015 15:12:58 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Christ got angry at a fig tree and smote it. He felt badly afterward, but it took him a bit to cool off.

For not having figs when it wasn't fig season. 

I can't even remember what lesson he tied to this. I just remember that it was a really smooth way of covering up getting hangry and taking it out on a poor tree.

[gazpacho]

Jun 22, 2015 14:57:58 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

I feel like the kneejerk call for forgiveness is a throwback to times when that's all you could do because you had no other options. So you forgave and just moved on with life.

Yes. People forgive because they feel that is all that they can do or repercussions from not forgiving.

[downtoearth]

Jun 22, 2015 15:29:27 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jun 22, 2015 15:27:12 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

For not having figs when it wasn't fig season. 

I can't even remember what lesson he tied to this. I just remember that it was a really smooth way of covering up getting hangry and taking it out on a poor tree.

I'm dying at the old apostles sitting around an old-folks home telling stories about the good ol' days when Christ got "hangry" at the fig tree.  That is so perfect for my view of how the bible came to be.

[summer]

1. I don't judge these people for whatever reaction they have.

2. I would not be forgiving one thing. "Yes, I think he deserves to die and I hope he burns in hell," is about where I'd be. But I also did a dance when Osama got thrown in the sea, so I totally own my vengeful ways. And I hate terrorists and this kid is one.

[iammalcolmx]

I am not forgiving him the circumstances behind this have wrecked me.

[ttt]

Who are the people calling on them to forgive??

Because I am mad at those people. If they choose to forgive, right away or at any point, that should be 100% their personal decision. Nobody gets to tell them what they should or shouldnt feel.

[NewOrleans]

Jun 22, 2015 16:09:28 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

Think generally speaking, black people aren't allowed to demonstrate any outrage. We are supposed to be modeled after the one black man that white people are so keen on quoting for peace and things like that of course, Martin Luther King Junior.

I think if we actually show our feelings are true feelings, forgiveness can be within them, anger is also there. But to be an angry black person in this country is unforgivable. The white fragility and the white issues with any kind of responsibility that they might have in these scenarios is too much to handle.

White people, especially white conservatives, are allowed to be outraged about abortion, they're allowed to be outraged about poor economy, a 'scandalous' liberal president, pretty much anything they want to be loud and annoyed by including gun control, but when a black person, you know, mutters a word of discontent then we are the worst people. We're being overly sensitive and playing the race card, and slavery ended so racism is over.

I find that to be one of the most ironic things about my Facebook friends who are conservative Christiansbbi checked their pages, I saw nothing about Charleston.

Oh, Smo.  I feel this so strongly.  

Nor are they allowed to identify with each other.  I think back to Obama saying if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon and how enraged people were by that.  

It it seems like the rules are always changing for black people, the goalposts always moving.

[sfy]

Jun 22, 2015 15:21:47 GMT -5 incogneato said:

I respect that for many people, their faith compels them to forgive but it always makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable and in this case, for many of the reasons in the OP. What I REALLY hated were my white southern relatives posting multiple articles about the victims families stating their forgiveness and praising the families for it. It just gave me a really gross vibe, especially the "See, Baltimore! This is how we deal with tragedy in SC!"

Yeah...... no. Nope. No. White South Carolinians don't get to pat themselves on the back for this, nor do they get to be smug and holier than thou by comparing "their" people with the protesters in Baltimore. Ick.

That really pisses me off.  It's even more maddening, though, because to some extent I think it's true.  I don't know if it's the whole Southern manners thing or if it really is some kind of remnants of slavery (because they still exist in the South in ways I haven't seen in other places).   I remember when a friend and I were talking during the riots in Baltimore about how all black folks are not the same.  Baltimore, Philly, Chicago, LA, no.  You are liable to get your city burned down on the wrong day...but unfortunately (at least to me), there are things that are going to go unchecked in the deep South.

Jun 22, 2015 19:06:18 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

I think part of the forgiving is letting the person know they don't have control over you. At least that is what they preach about in church. When you have hate or anger towards someone they have control over you. So saying you forgive is releasing that person's control over your thoughts and emotions. I don't know if I would be strong enough to do that. I think I would have hate in my heart for a while. But like sou, God is still working on me too.

I can't fully articulate my feeling about this right now, but I do not know I don't agree with this.  I think there is a way to move past something that has happened without forgiving the person who wronged you.  There are ways to not allow the anger to consume you without forgiveness.  I'm sorry, but I find this unforgivable.  I respect what these people are saying, but quite frankly, I don't think they're in a mental space yet to truly forgive.  Wait until it really sinks in, until motherless Mother's Days and Thanksgivings, until wedding days and graduations, then tell me about it.  Maybe I'm just an evil piece of work, but I don't think they can even fully grasp what he stole from them yet.

[sushi]

I'm an evil amoral atheist, so I don't feel the least guilt for saying I wouldn't forgive.

I get that some people find forgiveness healing. Personally, though, I've done much better with accepting some things don't deserve forgiveness. They're just bad. I can move on from that. I can't move on from trying to force a false feeling.

[anonymous]

So watching a USC football game in the fall they planned to the fiancé of the South Carolina QB. So I googled her and she hates gays, went to chikfila appreciation day, has a pic of her holding a shirt saying something like I work so thousands of people don't have to, or something like that. So "yuck," IMO.

That led to his rabbit hole of this other crazy lady in Twitter who might be like lys. But I think she's worse than lys. Anyway, she has some tweet about charleston talking about forgiveness and also about how South Carolinians didn't get angry line in Baltimore and ferguson. She's just gross. I'd put her name here but don't want to draw her to the board

Also, WSJ had an article talking about how forgiveness is what is needed in every situation. It really rubbed me the wrong way. I read it and found myself asking why they should have to forgive.

[2curlydogs]

Jun 22, 2015 15:29:27 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jun 22, 2015 15:27:12 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

For not having figs when it wasn't fig season. 

I can't even remember what lesson he tied to this. I just remember that it was a really smooth way of covering up getting hangry and taking it out on a poor tree.

I think it ended up as "Do not doubt the power of prayer. Have faith in God." Or something like that.

I mean, I'm sure the fig tree is a metaphor for something. Or you could make it one.

[cookiemdough]

I find it a carryover from the days of slavery. The fear of uprisings or the fear at releasing slaves because of possible repercussions. How do you deal with that if you are black? You say hey no worries we forgive you, you don't have to worry about us coming after you for all of those wrongdoings.

forgiveness is not for the other person, it is for yourself. It is also a demonstration that you recognize the love and forgiveness shown to you by God each day when he loves you despite your sins. That being said, I would be surprised if they are even in a mindset to truly forgive this close to the tragedy. I personally would still be in shock.

But hey maybe it works. They took the high road and it showed the state that continuing to embrace a sign of hate like the confederate flag seemed small-minded and hateful in light of the graceful behavior of the victims.

So what do I know?

[ChillyMcFreeze]

Rick Perry said what?? I got sidetracked there.


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