Landlord/tenant help

[rubytue]

Help me come up with a way where the shelf of a refrigerator "ripped off" the back wall of the fridge "all by itself." Not the shelf fell, but actually the mounts ripped out of the side.

Because, in my mind, that only happens if you let the kid climb up the fridge. Or you are pissed off and rip it out.

Alternatively, give me the strength to say no, this is negligence or damage and you will have to pay. Or can I just keep a running tally and take it out of their deposit at the end?

[AAM2012]

I can't see any other way other than a person (whether adult or child) is responsible.

Have they given you a (non-valid) reason?

[rubytue]

Jul 1, 2015 20:51:13 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

I can't see any other way other than a person (whether adult or child) is responsible.

Have they given you a (non-valid) reason?

"We don't know. It was just like that when we opened the door."

Eta - they do have a 5 and 8 year old.

[gretchenindisguise]

HAHAHAHAHA.



No.

Their kids are good liars.

This is like the time I didn't sign my name on the wall.

[kadams767]

Too much stuff weighing down the shelf? I broke a shelf once when I put the thanksgiving turkey and a bunch of beer on the same shelf, but I don't think that pulled the actual brackets out, though.

[rubytue]

Jul 1, 2015 20:57:41 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Too much stuff weighing down the shelf? I broke a shelf once when I put the thanksgiving turkey and a bunch of beer on the same shelf, but I don't think that pulled the actual brackets out, though.

If you were a renter, would you consider that your fault? (You have lived with the fridge for 5 years)

I know I have to fix. It's just who pays.

[AAM2012]

To put in perspective:

My parents had the same fridge for literally 20+ years (they're cheap and my dad refuses to throw away ANYTHING) and their shelf never just randomly pulled out from the back. Also they keep a TON of shit on their shelves, like imagine a hoarder's fridge...yep that's my parents!

(As much as it pains me to write out rubytue) Team landlord

[rubytue]

Woohoo!!! Seems like it's never team landlord!

[EmilieMadison]

Shelves are not capable of collapsing of their own volition. Either it was loaded far beyond it's capacity, or it was pulled.
That's your answer. That is not normal wear and tear.
Take pictures, document, and deduct from their deposit. 

[rubytue]

AAM2012- Will it make you fell better to know I replaced two sinks that "just cracked"? I didn't fight those, just rolled my eyes. But I'm kind of looking at this not sure how to just fix it. It's kinda effed. And fuck if I'm paying for a new fridge for this. I'm hoping there is an easy repair when I see it in this weekend. But right now (pictures only) it's not looking promising.

[Deleted]

Wait.... They've lived there 5 years? Sounds like normal wear and tear + putting too much weight on it to me.

However, I don't treat things with kid gloved the way a lot of mm does. I'm off the thought that things are meant to be used and used well.

[EmilieMadison]

Jul 1, 2015 22:28:06 GMT -5 @blissoff said:

Wait.... They've lived there 5 years? Sounds like normal wear and tear + putting too much weight on it to me.

However, I don't treat things with kid gloved the way a lot of mm does. I'm off the thought that things are meant to be used and used well.

And how many refrigerator shelves have ripped out of the back of the fridge wall when you used them? 

[vanillacourage]

Does your lease include a fridge as a provided appliance?

[rubytue]

Jul 1, 2015 22:38:27 GMT -5 vanillacourage said:

Does your lease include a fridge as a provided appliance?

Yes. I'm not saying I won't take the action to fix it. Just that I want to bill them.

[spindle92]

Jul 1, 2015 22:28:06 GMT -5 @blissoff said:

Wait.... They've lived there 5 years? Sounds like normal wear and tear + putting too much weight on it to me.

However, I don't treat things with kid gloved the way a lot of mm does. I'm off the thought that things are meant to be used and used well.

You think brackets being ripped out of a fridge is normal wear and tear?

[rubytue]

Jul 1, 2015 22:28:06 GMT -5 @blissoff said:

Wait.... They've lived there 5 years? Sounds like normal wear and tear + putting too much weight on it to me.

However, I don't treat things with kid gloved the way a lot of mm does. I'm off the thought that things are meant to be used and used well.

You think ripping a shelf off is normal wear and tear? Of a 5 year old fridge? With and expected life of 14-17 years?

Do you know what a fridge costs? Stainless steel, side by side? Upwards of a grand. Would you really just do whatever to it if you were paying for it? Or is it ok bc its the LLs?

[rubytue]

Ps. No. There are no recalls on this fridge for falling shelves. I have heard of a fridge being recalled for doors that fall off, but I did check lol

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2015 22:48:23 GMT -5 spindle92 said:

Jul 1, 2015 22:28:06 GMT -5 @blissoff said:

Wait.... They've lived there 5 years? Sounds like normal wear and tear + putting too much weight on it to me.

However, I don't treat things with kid gloved the way a lot of mm does. I'm off the thought that things are meant to be used and used well.

You think brackets being ripped out of a fridge is normal wear and tear?

I've broken at least 2 fridge shelves in my day.

I'm pretty sure it was because we over loaded them, which I consider accidental wear.

But again, I expect things to break.

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2015 22:51:24 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Jul 1, 2015 22:28:06 GMT -5 @blissoff said:

Wait.... They've lived there 5 years? Sounds like normal wear and tear + putting too much weight on it to me.

However, I don't treat things with kid gloved the way a lot of mm does. I'm off the thought that things are meant to be used and used well.

You think ripping a shelf off is normal wear and tear? Of a 5 year old fridge? With and expected life of 14-17 years?

Do you know what a fridge costs? Stainless steel, side by side? Upwards of a grand. Would you really just do whatever to it if you were paying for it? Or is it ok bc its the LLs?

Idk. It's a shelf in a fridge. Just seems like something that could happen. It's not a malicious act by any means.

How much are we talking here in expenses?

Now, a broken door, I'd be on the ll side.

[agnes]

Jul 1, 2015 23:30:28 GMT -5 @blissoff said:

Jul 1, 2015 22:48:23 GMT -5 spindle92 said:

You think brackets being ripped out of a fridge is normal wear and tear?

I've broken at least 2 fridge shelves in my day.

I'm pretty sure it was because we over loaded them, which I consider accidental wear.

But again, I expect things to break.

this is like when my little SIL said, "I wasn't in an accident. I just scrapped the pole"

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2015 23:37:08 GMT -5 agnes said:

Jul 1, 2015 23:30:28 GMT -5 @blissoff said:

I've broken at least 2 fridge shelves in my day.

I'm pretty sure it was because we over loaded them, which I consider accidental wear.

But again, I expect things to break.

this is like when my little SIL said, "I wasn't in an accident. I just scrapped the poll"

Oh right. Accidents don't happen. I forgot where I was for a second. Thanks for the clarification.

[EmilieMadison]

Jul 1, 2015 23:30:28 GMT -5 @blissoff said:

Jul 1, 2015 22:48:23 GMT -5 spindle92 said:

You think brackets being ripped out of a fridge is normal wear and tear?

I've broken at least 2 fridge shelves in my day.

I'm pretty sure it was because we over loaded them, which I consider accidental wear.

But again, I expect things to break.

Normal wear and tear means the item has been used as intended, like when the carpet is more worn and dirty in the hallway where everyone walks vs in the corner of the living room where no one walks. Filthy carpets from wearing muddy shoes down the hallway is not "normal wear and tear". Overloading the shelves and then calling it an "accident" is like feeding your dog too much and then saying it's "accidentally overweight". 

But when you dont respect or treat things properly, yeah, I supposed I see why you'd just expect things to break. Because, um, you're breaking them. 

[rubytue]

Jul 1, 2015 23:33:14 GMT -5 @blissoff said:

Jul 1, 2015 22:51:24 GMT -5 rubytue said:

You think ripping a shelf off is normal wear and tear? Of a 5 year old fridge? With and expected life of 14-17 years?

Do you know what a fridge costs? Stainless steel, side by side? Upwards of a grand. Would you really just do whatever to it if you were paying for it? Or is it ok bc its the LLs?

Idk. It's a shelf in a fridge. Just seems like something that could happen. It's not a malicious act by any means.

How much are we talking here in expenses?

Now, a broken door, I'd be on the ll side.

Because it is ripped from the side of the fridge, I'm not sure it can be fixed. The plastic walls are damaged. Cost is up to the cost of a new fridge.

Also, "accidental wear" as you've defined it would fall under negligent damage in the lease.

[womet]

Team Landlord. That sounds beyond normal wear and tear to me.

[kadams767]

Jul 1, 2015 21:06:39 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Jul 1, 2015 20:57:41 GMT -5 kadams767 said:

Too much stuff weighing down the shelf? I broke a shelf once when I put the thanksgiving turkey and a bunch of beer on the same shelf, but I don't think that pulled the actual brackets out, though.

If you were a renter, would you consider that your fault? (You have lived with the fridge for 5 years)

I know I have to fix. It's just who pays.

Didn't get through the rest of the thread yet, but yes, as a renter I would agree that is my own fault. If I put a few normal items on there and it broke, not my fault. If I overloaded it like a dumbass (which I totally did), it's totally my fault.

[pumpkin]

This level of damage does not sound like normal wear and tear to me.

I'm also wondering about the cracked sinks, I know they've been replaced, but was there a manufacturing problem? I'm just wondering how one gets a cracked sink, much less 2.

[MixedBerryJam]

Jul 2, 2015 6:49:19 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Jul 1, 2015 23:33:14 GMT -5 @blissoff said:

Idk. It's a shelf in a fridge. Just seems like something that could happen. It's not a malicious act by any means.

How much are we talking here in expenses?

Now, a broken door, I'd be on the ll side.

Because it is ripped from the side of the fridge, I'm not sure it can be fixed. The plastic walls are damaged. Cost is up to the cost of a new fridge.

Also, "accidental wear" as you've defined it would fall under negligent damage in the lease.

Indeed. LOL that "accidental wear" is a thing and that overloading a shelf to breaking is what that is. I was just coming in to say from the description it sounds unfixable, but even if it were fixable, it might not be worth the cost. I think the gasket alone for mine was $50; I had a drawer replaced under warranty but it would have been over $100 for just the drawer. I think you're going to have to go fridge shopping asap.

[rubytue]

Jul 2, 2015 7:13:58 GMT -5 pumpkin said:

This level of damage does not sound like normal wear and tear to me.

I'm also wondering about the cracked sinks, I know they've been replaced, but was there a manufacturing problem? I'm just wondering how one gets a cracked sink, much less 2.

Me, too!

First was a kitchen sink. Fancy composite material. Replaced that with a stainless steel sink. Second sink was the laundry slop sink.

[sporky]

Team Landlord. In fact I probably would have been Team Landlord over cracked sinks too (What in the world???).

[kadams767]

Jul 2, 2015 0:05:50 GMT -5 @blissoff said:

Jul 1, 2015 23:37:08 GMT -5 agnes said:

this is like when my little SIL said, "I wasn't in an accident. I just scrapped the poll"

Oh right. Accidents don't happen. I forgot where I was for a second. Thanks for the clarification.

Of course accidents happen.  That doesn't mean you aren't responsible for paying for them.  It was an accident when my tenants broke a window, and I was more than happy to have it fixed, but they had to cover the cost.  They broke it.